Tomac's triple jump passes

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2/26/2020 6:47 AM

Silas444 wrote:

Surely you jest. Just look at the posts on this thread alone: if you criticize Tomac, you get downvotes, whereas if you genuflect before Eli the Oracle, you get the 'ups'. I'll be frank here, I've got no dog in this hunt, as I'm a devoted Cairoli fan, and when MXGP starts next weekend the amount of remaining F***S I have to give about Tomac's overly aggressive tactics on the face of that jump, or anything else to do with the plastic-fantastic, silicone-boobed, collagen-injected world of Supercross, will quickly dwindle to zero. I only cared because I noticed, and I only noticed because it's winter here and Supercross provided me with nominal entertainment, but all that is about to change, because I'm just about to start watching (wait for it) ACTUAL INTERNATIONAL OUTDOOR MOTOCROSS as this beautiful State heads, inexorably, toward spring! Life, my friends, is just so damn wonderful.

You really showed your cards here as a GP cultist.

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2/26/2020 7:14 AM

The rampant down votes in this thread toward those who feel it was uncool and dangerous really are baffling to me. The comments defending Tomac just push that thought further. I think this is why a lot of people subconsciously don’t want Eli to win. He seems like a good guy but his fans are absolutely unbearable on here.

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2/26/2020 7:15 AM

Ray_MXS wrote:

Regardless if this was considered ok or not, I'm tired of people trying to explain it with "He took the race line".
It doesn't matter what line you take if there's already someone in it!
And Eli should be well aware that Kenny would be there. He left room for Kenny on the left and he didn't hit the dragons back very fast that time. It's his job to anticipate where his competition is and if he's not sure if anyone is to the left of him, he shouldn't just gamble that there isn't and potentially put other riders at risk.

Now, everything was fine this time. Nobody got hurt, Kenny obviously was super reactive and backed down and nobody got pissed. But what if he didn't and they got together... It's not worth to gamble on other riders safety just so he could take the "race line". Especially not up the takeoff on a big triple.

What's the first thing we learn our toddler on the race track?
"Hold your line", "Ride predictably"

Hold your line is what your parents told you when a bigger bike was about to blow your doors off.

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2/26/2020 7:37 AM

NateDawg wrote:

Kenny literally didn't give this move a second thought, yet some of y'all are crying like a lost child. How are you gonna be this upset when the person that it happened to had no problem with it? Y'all need to get back to work.

Yes. It's a non issue made into an issue in this forum.

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2/26/2020 8:38 AM

CPR wrote:

Although there was some discussion about Tomac's passes on Roczen and Anderson in the race thread, I'm surprised there wasn't a lot more furore about it. Is it because it was Tomac?
I love watching him race but man those moves were not cool.
I'd wouldn't be surprised if Eli himself didn't realise they were close. Thankfully it's the 450 class and those guys know what they're doing. Similar moves in the 250s could be disastrous.

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I originally thought it was dirty but that was the line Tomac took even when alone:

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2/26/2020 9:56 AM

TDeath21 wrote:

The rampant down votes in this thread toward those who feel it was uncool and dangerous really are baffling to me. The comments defending Tomac just push that thought further. I think this is why a lot of people subconsciously don’t want Eli to win. He seems like a good guy but his fans are absolutely unbearable on here.

People are downvoting you because your argument is fucking stupid.

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2/26/2020 10:02 AM

CPR wrote:

Although there was some discussion about Tomac's passes on Roczen and Anderson in the race thread, I'm surprised there wasn't a lot more furore about it. Is it because it was Tomac?
I love watching him race but man those moves were not cool.
I'd wouldn't be surprised if Eli himself didn't realise they were close. Thankfully it's the 450 class and those guys know what they're doing. Similar moves in the 250s could be disastrous.

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tprice07 wrote:

I originally thought it was dirty but that was the line Tomac took even when alone:

He's supposed to alter his line to accommodate the rider behind him . Get with the program

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2/26/2020 11:34 AM

ATKpilot99 wrote:

He's supposed to alter his line to accommodate the rider behind him . Get with the program

This, but not sarcastic. Just because you have a slight lead on someone doesn't mean you can do whatever you want. I don't want to see anyone in this thread say one thing about Friese. Personally I don't think Tomac knew Kenny was that close, but this has turned into something else entirely. The fact that so many people on here are defending cutting over on the face of a jump is just insane.

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2/26/2020 11:36 AM

Question: Tomac was going faster than Roczen. Why did Roczen feel like he needed to slow down and just double?

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2/26/2020 11:40 AM

tprice07 wrote:

I originally thought it was dirty but that was the line Tomac took even when alone:

ATKpilot99 wrote:

He's supposed to alter his line to accommodate the rider behind him . Get with the program

motokawi818 wrote:

This, but not sarcastic. Just because you have a slight lead on someone doesn't mean you can do whatever you want. I don't want to see anyone in this thread say one thing about Friese. Personally I don't think Tomac knew Kenny was that close, but this has turned into something else entirely. The fact that so many people on here are defending cutting over on the face of a jump is just insane.

Why hasn't Roczen or Anderson or anyone else besides people in this forum said anything about it ? I really hope James does a race recap. I'd be interested in his take on it.

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2/26/2020 11:51 AM

Roczen on Tomac, where is the outrage?!

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Mantis Toboggan, M.D

2/26/2020 12:06 PM

kkawboy14 wrote:

Question: Tomac was going faster than Roczen. Why did Roczen feel like he needed to slow down and just double?

Would have to be some sort of private risk/reward calculation that may extend further than the racetrack.

Ken, post recovery is blisteringly fast but accident averse.

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If the glass is half full it's twice as big as it needs to be.

2/26/2020 1:25 PM

TDeath21 wrote:

The rampant down votes in this thread toward those who feel it was uncool and dangerous really are baffling to me. The comments defending Tomac just push that thought further. I think this is why a lot of people subconsciously don’t want Eli to win. He seems like a good guy but his fans are absolutely unbearable on here.

Last year there was a thread made about Marvin cross jumping someone (I think Deano?). As far as I remember the general consensus was that it was not an egregious move and the lead bike can go where they choose. Now I'm not sure how comparable that situation is to this one but my point is I tend to think the up/down votes in this thread (and the one I'm speaking of) are generally indicative of peoples honest opinion on the matter. Marvin isn't exactly the fan favourite around here and again as far as I remember, most were defending him in that situation.

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2/26/2020 1:56 PM

Ray_MXS wrote:

Regardless if this was considered ok or not, I'm tired of people trying to explain it with "He took the race line".
It doesn't matter what line you take if there's already someone in it!
And Eli should be well aware that Kenny would be there. He left room for Kenny on the left and he didn't hit the dragons back very fast that time. It's his job to anticipate where his competition is and if he's not sure if anyone is to the left of him, he shouldn't just gamble that there isn't and potentially put other riders at risk.

Now, everything was fine this time. Nobody got hurt, Kenny obviously was super reactive and backed down and nobody got pissed. But what if he didn't and they got together... It's not worth to gamble on other riders safety just so he could take the "race line". Especially not up the takeoff on a big triple.

What's the first thing we learn our toddler on the race track?
"Hold your line", "Ride predictably"

Should he have checked his mirror? Or maybe look back to see if Kenny was there?

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2/26/2020 2:15 PM

I really don’t see how this is so complicated guys. Cutting someone off like that on the face of the jump is not cool. It doesn’t matter what his normal line was honestly. Every single time there’s a rhythm followed by a 90 degree turn into another rhythm, the main race line is almost always to jump from one side of the track to the other side toward the end of the rhythm in order to set up for the next rhythm. Almost always it’s a cross jump from the outside to the inside. But when someone is already inside of you, you don’t do that. You jump straight. This is common sense and I’m honestly baffled people are taking the stance of, “Tomac had half a bike length lead he can do whatever he wants and Roczen has to adjust”.

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2/26/2020 2:31 PM

TDeath21 wrote:

The rampant down votes in this thread toward those who feel it was uncool and dangerous really are baffling to me. The comments defending Tomac just push that thought further. I think this is why a lot of people subconsciously don’t want Eli to win. He seems like a good guy but his fans are absolutely unbearable on here.

NateDawg wrote:

People are downvoting you because your argument is fucking stupid.

^^^

Case in point. You’ve been in this thread and most your comments are calling people fucking stupid or saying they aren’t real racers. Must be fun huh!?

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2/26/2020 2:53 PM

TDeath21 wrote:

^^^

Case in point. You’ve been in this thread and most your comments are calling people fucking stupid or saying they aren’t real racers. Must be fun huh!?

I’m pretty convinced the only people saying it’s okay to cut someone off on the face of a huge jump have never actually been committed to ever jumping something and had it happen to them.

This is one of those unwritten rules between racers. I have seen fights break out at the track over this exact thing.

Nearly anything else is fair game. But man you do not cut someone off like that on a jump. You just don’t.

Luckily for Ken he had just enough time to back out of that triple jump. That’s not always the case. It’s unnecessarily dangerous to do that to a fellow racer.

Again, fair game to be as aggressive as you want. But cutting someone off on the face of a jump is total bush league.

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2/26/2020 3:00 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/26/2020 9:45 PM

NateDawg wrote:

People are downvoting you because your argument is fucking stupid.

TDeath21 wrote:

^^^

Case in point. You’ve been in this thread and most your comments are calling people fucking stupid or saying they aren’t real racers. Must be fun huh!?

TXDirt wrote:

I’m pretty convinced the only people saying it’s okay to cut someone off on the face of a huge jump have never actually been committed to ever jumping something and had it happen to them.

This is one of those unwritten rules between racers. I have seen fights break out at the track over this exact thing.

Nearly anything else is fair game. But man you do not cut someone off like that on a jump. You just don’t.

Luckily for Ken he had just enough time to back out of that triple jump. That’s not always the case. It’s unnecessarily dangerous to do that to a fellow racer.

Again, fair game to be as aggressive as you want. But cutting someone off on the face of a jump is total bush league.

Yep. I’d rather someone block pass me in a corner and take me out 100 times before doing what Tomac did once. Not even Roczen’s GoPro does that justice. They were racing waaaayyyy faster than I could ever even fathom and even at the speeds I go that is terrifying to have happen to you.

Something similar to the below video is what happens there if Roczen doesn’t back off. Not cool at all and could have very easily ended both their seasons.


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2/26/2020 3:11 PM

seth505 wrote:

1) Just because there are 2 ruts does not mean you can fit 2 bikes side by side
2) If Tomac swerved all the way over to the left/red rut then he would have shot into the stands (or that Kawi banner).

Crush wrote:

2) – No he wouldn't. They weren't side by side. Eli was clear in front at that point as Kenny shut it down.

seth505 wrote:

Moot point but I don’t think he could have hit that outside rut safely. Either way I think almost zero percent chance it was malicious fyi.

1. Eli definitely took Ken's line away on the upramp, photo's show he was gaining all the way until Eli cut over.
2.100% It would have ended bad if Ken didn't shut down and double.
3.Eli made the pass in the corner, no way Eli thought Ken could carry more speed and catch back up like he did.I call sketchy move but not malicious

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2/26/2020 4:00 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/26/2020 4:01 PM

CASH476 wrote:

1. Eli definitely took Ken's line away on the upramp, photo's show he was gaining all the way until Eli cut over.
2.100% It would have ended bad if Ken didn't shut down and double.
3.Eli made the pass in the corner, no way Eli thought Ken could carry more speed and catch back up like he did.I call sketchy move but not malicious

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100%. I don’t think it was malicious at all, just Eli believing he was further ahead and going into the race line.it was still sketchy though. No one in the history of this board has defended crossing over like this. There’s pages and pages of arguments saying friese should be banned. It’s really the blind support of Eli and defending cutting over on the face of a jump that has kept me here arguing.

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2/26/2020 8:23 PM

NateDawg wrote:

People are downvoting you because your argument is fucking stupid.

TDeath21 wrote:

^^^

Case in point. You’ve been in this thread and most your comments are calling people fucking stupid or saying they aren’t real racers. Must be fun huh!?

TXDirt wrote:

I’m pretty convinced the only people saying it’s okay to cut someone off on the face of a huge jump have never actually been committed to ever jumping something and had it happen to them.

This is one of those unwritten rules between racers. I have seen fights break out at the track over this exact thing.

Nearly anything else is fair game. But man you do not cut someone off like that on a jump. You just don’t.

Luckily for Ken he had just enough time to back out of that triple jump. That’s not always the case. It’s unnecessarily dangerous to do that to a fellow racer.

Again, fair game to be as aggressive as you want. But cutting someone off on the face of a jump is total bush league.

I'd say Nate is on the money and most of the people who are ok with Tomax are experienced.

Shit, I'm a wobbly vet with nearly 50 years on the track and can see that was clean, predictable and a safe pro move.

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If the glass is half full it's twice as big as it needs to be.

2/26/2020 11:44 PM

motokawi818 wrote:

100%. I don’t think it was malicious at all, just Eli believing he was further ahead and going into the race line.it was still sketchy though. No one in the history of this board has defended crossing over like this. There’s pages and pages of arguments saying friese should be banned. It’s really the blind support of Eli and defending cutting over on the face of a jump that has kept me here arguing.

No way Eli did that on purpose but it's still not "fine".
If he doesn't know 100% that Kenny isn't there, he shouldn't make that move, he should just jump straight.

The amount of Eli fanboyism in this thread is unreal.

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2/28/2020 8:48 PM

Tomac is in the lead. He can choose which line he wants to take and does not have to give the guy trying to pass him the room to pass. That was a great move on his part.

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2/28/2020 9:09 PM

No thoughts from James Stewart this week ?

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There's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear.

2/28/2020 9:27 PM

It’s maybe racing, but I wouldn’t call it smart or safe on Tomac’s behalf.
Lots of people saying Tomac was using the main racing line. More like deliberately swapping lines - moving from line 1 to line 2 to force KR to shut off.

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