Tomacs starts

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8/20/2018 7:35 AM

Eli Tomac is an amazing rider to watch but his starts have been poor at a lot of the races. While it makes it fun to watch him come through the pac it wont work in the mxdn against herlings. If he starts mid pack in the mxdn he will never see herlings and we wont get to see the epic battle we have been waiting for. Just hoping tomac can pull off some starts because more than not this year his starts have been lackluster.

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8/20/2018 7:37 AM

Elis starts on metal are really good. Mxdn has metal starts right? I think he will be fine

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8/20/2018 7:43 AM

This is my main concern with our MXDN guys. Two of the three guys get poor starts a lot. AP isn't the best at coming through a pack of 250 riders. Mix in the 450 riders and he's really gonna struggle.

Tomac can come through the pack but Herlings will be gone and as we all know, Team Netherlands is a legit threat to win.

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8/20/2018 9:11 AM

I wonder if it is his outdoor gearing on his bike?

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8/20/2018 9:26 AM

How many times does this have to be said: metal grates will be used at the MXoN.

Tomac historically does much better on those than normal dirt.

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8/20/2018 9:45 AM

It’s not so much his starts as it is it takes awhile to get going. You look at everyone else on his level recently and throughout history they don’t wait around. They make moves early and check out. Roczen in 16 didn’t always get great starts but he was in the lead by lap 3 all the time.

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8/20/2018 9:52 AM

TDeath21 wrote:

It’s not so much his starts as it is it takes awhile to get going. You look at everyone else on his level recently and throughout history they don’t wait around. They make moves early and check out. Roczen in 16 didn’t always get great starts but he was in the lead by lap 3 all the time.

IDK, Budds is actually the first time I've seen Tomac "take a while to get going" in a good while. He's excelled at quickly muscling his way to the front this year. Barcia tipping over plus Musquin and Roczen spectacularly falling off the pace in moto 2 really worked to his advantage, or else he may not have been able make up for the fact that he wasn't hustling for the first half of the race.

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BT20 👉 02/20/20 👉#TICKLETIMEBITCHES

8/20/2018 9:56 AM

my grandma could beat Tomac to the first corner

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8/20/2018 9:58 AM

I think some of what you saw from Tomac on Saturday was him being cautious not to throw it all away. With a 15 point lead going into the weekend, part of his thinking had to be consistency and not throwing away his points lead. He was successful overall and walks away with a 20 point lead going into the final round.

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8/20/2018 10:26 AM

Here’s another thread convering this same subject matter for those interested:

https://m.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Starts-Bogle-vs-Tomac,1344002

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8/20/2018 10:31 AM

Finishes > starts

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8/20/2018 10:39 AM

Surprisingly, AP has had quite a few good starts this year.

Barcia is normally top 5 if not better.

Tomac will be just fine if he starts 5-10.

Herling's is a great starter, but has mostly had #1 gate pick. (won the qualy race)

This most likely wont be the case at MXON.

2-4 is realistic for the motos.

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8/20/2018 10:41 AM

With respect to MXoN, I think that Eli's starts could be a problem, same with AP but the biggest obstacle to overcome will be the starting order draw by ping-pong ball for the qualifying races. Traditionally Youthstream makes the starts very unfair, and if a country gets like 36th ping-pong ball then it's good luck.

For the finals, gate pick is based on the qualifying moto results, but it all starts with the stupid ping-pong ball.

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Old MXer turned Superfan.

8/20/2018 10:44 AM

hamncheeze wrote:

With respect to MXoN, I think that Eli's starts could be a problem, same with AP but the biggest obstacle to overcome will be the starting order draw by ping-pong ball for the qualifying races. Traditionally Youthstream makes the starts very unfair, and if a country gets like 36th ping-pong ball then it's good luck.

For the finals, gate pick is based on the qualifying moto results, but it all starts with the stupid ping-pong ball.

That’s the fairest way to do it though.

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8/20/2018 10:58 AM

Can someone explain to me why gate pick for the qualifying races is determined by a ping pong ball draw? You'd think the "most important event of the year" (as some here like to call it) would have a better system than what is used at a local fair race.

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8/20/2018 11:16 AM

NateDawg wrote:

How many times does this have to be said: metal grates will be used at the MXoN.

Tomac historically does much better on those than normal dirt.

„historically“? How long have they been using metal pads? oh yeah, one year.

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8/20/2018 11:51 AM

peelout wrote:

my grandma could beat Tomac to the first corner

Of course, she's 6'3, 250, and runs a 4.5 40

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8/20/2018 12:26 PM

Tomac starts like Mike Larocco with two flat tires. 100% my biggest concern for the MXDN. Tomac gets buried off the start, panics, and bounces off a few much slower riders leading to a crash. He also won't beat Herlings starting behind him. Not gonna happen. But a top five start and all bets are off.

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Are you smart enough to buy a bike that costs less, weighs less, makes more horsepower per cubic centimeter, can be rebuilt for recycled aluminum can money and is giggle inducing? It is hard to believe that the American riding public flunks this test en masse. How stupid are you?

8/20/2018 1:03 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/20/2018 1:03 PM

They leave him on the first shift!

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8/20/2018 1:15 PM

TDeath21 wrote:

That’s the fairest way to do it though.

How is random draw more fair than practice lap times?

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8/20/2018 7:35 PM

hamncheeze wrote:

With respect to MXoN, I think that Eli's starts could be a problem, same with AP but the biggest obstacle to overcome will be the starting order draw by ping-pong ball for the qualifying races. Traditionally Youthstream makes the starts very unfair, and if a country gets like 36th ping-pong ball then it's good luck.

For the finals, gate pick is based on the qualifying moto results, but it all starts with the stupid ping-pong ball.

TDeath21 wrote:

That’s the fairest way to do it though.

early wrote:

How is random draw more fair than practice lap times?

I'd be OK with the ping-pong ball thing if Youthstream did not bias the start geometry so badly. Most of the time there are only 12-15 decent gates. It's like they want to pre-determine the outcomes in MXGP.

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Old MXer turned Superfan.

8/20/2018 7:41 PM

When you’re that much faster than everyone, you don’t really need a good start.

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8/20/2018 9:09 PM

Unless you’re racing Herlings that is and you can’t necessarily count on having superior speed on tap at the flick of a switch...

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8/20/2018 9:23 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/20/2018 9:24 PM

HusqFan3 wrote:

Unless you’re racing Herlings that is and you can’t necessarily count on having superior speed on tap at the flick of a switch...

Bingo.

Anyone who thinks Tomac's gonna run down Herlings the way he's been running down the AMA field can forget that right here and now.



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F1. MotoGP. MXGP. Screw the rest.

8/20/2018 9:32 PM

HusqFan3 wrote:

Unless you’re racing Herlings that is and you can’t necessarily count on having superior speed on tap at the flick of a switch...

Brownstone322 wrote:

Bingo.

Anyone who thinks Tomac's gonna run down Herlings the way he's been running down the AMA field can forget that right here and now.



He does not need to run down Herlings. Jeffrey can beat him and the USA can still win. Eli just needs to ride smart and not throw it away. Same with Barcia. Then AP should be the top MX2 guy of any contending nation. Ferrandis will be close, but his starts have been atrocious. I don't think he's had a single start in the top 5 since returning at Round 4.

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Old MXer turned Superfan.

8/20/2018 11:06 PM

peelout wrote:

my grandma could beat Tomac to the first corner

put some denture cream and preparation H on and still have time to watch Tomac scoot on past.

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8/21/2018 12:01 AM

kb228 wrote:

Elis starts on metal are really good. Mxdn has metal starts right? I think he will be fine

Please explain that to me. His response time isn't exactly good, what do you think that happens when he starts on metal plates? He'll be next to a whole lot of guys who just had about 20 gp's, with each weekend 3 start from metal. You really think he'll be good all of a sudden?
I really do hope that we get to see a Tomac/Herlings battle, but I don't think it will happen because of poor starts.

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8/21/2018 12:16 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/21/2018 12:18 AM

TDeath21 wrote:

It’s not so much his starts as it is it takes awhile to get going. You look at everyone else on his level recently and throughout history they don’t wait around. They make moves early and check out. Roczen in 16 didn’t always get great starts but he was in the lead by lap 3 all the time.

Everyone else on his level recently makes moves early and checks out ? Who has done that ?
Who is on his level ?

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8/21/2018 12:23 AM

TDeath21 wrote:

It’s not so much his starts as it is it takes awhile to get going. You look at everyone else on his level recently and throughout history they don’t wait around. They make moves early and check out. Roczen in 16 didn’t always get great starts but he was in the lead by lap 3 all the time.

SCR wrote:

Everyone else on his level recently makes moves early and checks out ? Who has done that ?
Who is on his level ?

The only ones recently I’d put on 2018 Tomac’s level would be 2013 Villopoto, 2015 early season Tomac, and 2016 Roczen. Those guys made quick work of the pack early and got into the lead by lap 3. They then checked out.

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8/21/2018 1:09 AM

TDeath21 wrote:

That’s the fairest way to do it though.

early wrote:

How is random draw more fair than practice lap times?

hamncheeze wrote:

I'd be OK with the ping-pong ball thing if Youthstream did not bias the start geometry so badly. Most of the time there are only 12-15 decent gates. It's like they want to pre-determine the outcomes in MXGP.

Personally you can make a bad gate pick a good gate pick, if your WFOw00t

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