Tomacs raw speed

Shaned9326
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Shaned9326
Edited Date/Time 1/12/2020 5:47am
For some reason this year eli doesn’t seem to have the beast mode raw speed he shiwed in the past imo!! His starts are terrible as always but after a few quick passes he seems to just fall in behind guys that he normally blew by and makes ya wonder if everyone else has caught up to his speed this year as the other riders clearly don’t seem to be intimidated by that beast mode speed he used to uncork!!
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Thisusernameisavailable 1/12/2020 5:52am
1/12/2020 5:52am
I thought we were going to see it last night, during qualifying when he clicked to the top on lap 5 of the 2nd timed practice. Then Adam took it back and was never headed again. Eli went for it again on his last lap and fell just short of his best lap time.

I think theres more contenders now, more guys who are capable of running that speed, if not very nearly that speed, making passing tough. Eli was very very lucky to get 4th last night. He was one lap away from a 6th place finish- Without that luck, Rounds 1 & 2 results have been a far cry from what the 'odds on favourite for the title' should be scoring.
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observeroffacts
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observeroffacts 1/12/2020 5:52am
1/12/2020 5:52am
There are a few factors in his life that are a bit different, but I’m sure he’s still got the raw speed. Things always get best for him around/past the halfway point. He usually loses the season the first half, turns it up the second half and has a near miss for the championship.
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Motofinne
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Motofinne 1/12/2020 5:54am
1/12/2020 5:54am Edited Date/Time 1/12/2020 5:56am
Shaned9326 wrote:
For some reason this year eli doesn’t seem to have the beast mode raw speed he shiwed in the past imo!! His starts are terrible as...
For some reason this year eli doesn’t seem to have the beast mode raw speed he shiwed in the past imo!! His starts are terrible as always but after a few quick passes he seems to just fall in behind guys that he normally blew by and makes ya wonder if everyone else has caught up to his speed this year as the other riders clearly don’t seem to be intimidated by that beast mode speed he used to uncork!!
I think his raw speed was already slowly disappearing in 2019. I remember clearly that Weege mentioned it in one of the race review podcasts last year, that Tomac wasn't able to uncork that raw speed as many times as previous years and i think the stats back it up.

9 wins in 2017.
8 wins in 2018.
6 wins in 2019.

It might be a tad too early to stamp it after 2 rounds in 2020 but it's a fair question to ask in my opinion. And look, he has been at this incredible level for about 4½ years now. People expect that he just maintains the crazy speed that he had in 17 and 18 but i would imagine that it is almost impossible to stay on that kind of level.
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DrinkMoreWater 1/12/2020 6:18am
1/12/2020 6:18am
Don't worry beast mode will engage when he can't win and pressure is off like every year, imo he's still the fastest, mental wise? Not there.
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mulletman
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mulletman 1/12/2020 6:21am
1/12/2020 6:21am Edited Date/Time 1/12/2020 6:27am
Motofinne wrote:
I think his raw speed was already slowly disappearing in 2019. I remember clearly that Weege mentioned it in one of the race review podcasts last...
I think his raw speed was already slowly disappearing in 2019. I remember clearly that Weege mentioned it in one of the race review podcasts last year, that Tomac wasn't able to uncork that raw speed as many times as previous years and i think the stats back it up.

9 wins in 2017.
8 wins in 2018.
6 wins in 2019.

It might be a tad too early to stamp it after 2 rounds in 2020 but it's a fair question to ask in my opinion. And look, he has been at this incredible level for about 4½ years now. People expect that he just maintains the crazy speed that he had in 17 and 18 but i would imagine that it is almost impossible to stay on that kind of level.
So breaking his back during the 2019 offseason didn’t have any effect?
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quadzrulebro 1/12/2020 6:22am
1/12/2020 6:22am
I was there last night. He’s still a bad dude. You can’t start in the back of the pack and win races in this field. Simple as that.
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goinrcn44h
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goinrcn44h 1/12/2020 6:27am
1/12/2020 6:27am
He rounded the 1st corner in about 15th. If not worse. I believe he is willing to take what is given the first few rounds to try and avoid the dnf's and take the wins when they present themselves.

His speed is still there, the formula to win titles is well documented. He has to avoid the dnf scenario. It's way harder to make fantasy picks now however.....
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quadzrulebro 1/12/2020 6:30am
1/12/2020 6:30am
goinrcn44h wrote:
He rounded the 1st corner in about 15th. If not worse. I believe he is willing to take what is given the first few rounds to...
He rounded the 1st corner in about 15th. If not worse. I believe he is willing to take what is given the first few rounds to try and avoid the dnf's and take the wins when they present themselves.

His speed is still there, the formula to win titles is well documented. He has to avoid the dnf scenario. It's way harder to make fantasy picks now however.....
His formula to win Supercross titles is not a proven formula, unfortunately. If a longer outdoor race, his superior fitness and speed is enough to overcome mediocre starts and win championships. Up to this point, this hasn’t been the case indoors.
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goinrcn44h
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goinrcn44h 1/12/2020 7:06am
1/12/2020 7:06am
goinrcn44h wrote:
He rounded the 1st corner in about 15th. If not worse. I believe he is willing to take what is given the first few rounds to...
He rounded the 1st corner in about 15th. If not worse. I believe he is willing to take what is given the first few rounds to try and avoid the dnf's and take the wins when they present themselves.

His speed is still there, the formula to win titles is well documented. He has to avoid the dnf scenario. It's way harder to make fantasy picks now however.....
quadzrulebro wrote:
His formula to win Supercross titles is not a proven formula, unfortunately. If a longer outdoor race, his superior fitness and speed is enough to overcome...
His formula to win Supercross titles is not a proven formula, unfortunately. If a longer outdoor race, his superior fitness and speed is enough to overcome mediocre starts and win championships. Up to this point, this hasn’t been the case indoors.
I didnt say "his" formula.. I said "the" formula is well documented.

With that said I think he will be fine so long as he avoids the really bad races.

This year has the makings to be very very awesome to watch!
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H4L
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H4L 1/12/2020 7:23am
1/12/2020 7:23am
Shaned9326 wrote:
For some reason this year eli doesn’t seem to have the beast mode raw speed he shiwed in the past imo!! His starts are terrible as...
For some reason this year eli doesn’t seem to have the beast mode raw speed he shiwed in the past imo!! His starts are terrible as always but after a few quick passes he seems to just fall in behind guys that he normally blew by and makes ya wonder if everyone else has caught up to his speed this year as the other riders clearly don’t seem to be intimidated by that beast mode speed he used to uncork!!
Motofinne wrote:
I think his raw speed was already slowly disappearing in 2019. I remember clearly that Weege mentioned it in one of the race review podcasts last...
I think his raw speed was already slowly disappearing in 2019. I remember clearly that Weege mentioned it in one of the race review podcasts last year, that Tomac wasn't able to uncork that raw speed as many times as previous years and i think the stats back it up.

9 wins in 2017.
8 wins in 2018.
6 wins in 2019.

It might be a tad too early to stamp it after 2 rounds in 2020 but it's a fair question to ask in my opinion. And look, he has been at this incredible level for about 4½ years now. People expect that he just maintains the crazy speed that he had in 17 and 18 but i would imagine that it is almost impossible to stay on that kind of level.
It’s to early to tell. By mid season we will have a better gauge of it. A lot of people thought it was impossible for KR94 to win again. Time will tell..
IMHO he still has that raw speed / Beast mode & hasn’t unleashed it. It’s possible that there are other factors involved like a baby that is due soon.
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parkman
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parkman 1/12/2020 7:30am
1/12/2020 7:30am
I don't know, he had amazing moments in 2019, especially in Motocross. Washougal was insane. And even the Monster Energy cup, yeah he couldn't get around AC, but his fastest lap in the 3rd main was a whole second faster than AC's best. I don't think he lost all that raw speed in 3 months. I think sometimes Eli gets stuck behind guys and loses his rhythm if he takes too long to get around them. But 15th to 4th is not a bad ride imo when the field is this tough.
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 1/12/2020 7:37am
1/12/2020 7:37am
I don't see it like that at all... I see ET as just keeping things calm during the early rounds to prevent big, point costing mistakes.... He is setting himself up for a true championship run... So, he still has the insane speed, but has chosen to not unleash it yet...
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Mr. Afterbar 1/12/2020 7:37am
1/12/2020 7:37am
parkman wrote:
I don't know, he had amazing moments in 2019, especially in Motocross. Washougal was insane. And even the Monster Energy cup, yeah he couldn't get around...
I don't know, he had amazing moments in 2019, especially in Motocross. Washougal was insane. And even the Monster Energy cup, yeah he couldn't get around AC, but his fastest lap in the 3rd main was a whole second faster than AC's best. I don't think he lost all that raw speed in 3 months. I think sometimes Eli gets stuck behind guys and loses his rhythm if he takes too long to get around them. But 15th to 4th is not a bad ride imo when the field is this tough.
I agree. He needs to be more aggressive. If someone is holding him up, he needs to not be afraid to make contact. That's the only way he's going to get good results with his horrible starts. Zacho, Barcia, and Anderson would not ride around behind other riders the way Tomac does. Tomac almost looks afraid to get too close to other riders at times, especially when he has faster rhythms. He just reverts to the slower option while following and seems hesitant to jump inside someone going into a corner.
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H4L
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H4L 1/12/2020 7:50am
1/12/2020 7:50am
Mr. Afterbar wrote:
I agree. He needs to be more aggressive. If someone is holding him up, he needs to not be afraid to make contact. That's the only...
I agree. He needs to be more aggressive. If someone is holding him up, he needs to not be afraid to make contact. That's the only way he's going to get good results with his horrible starts. Zacho, Barcia, and Anderson would not ride around behind other riders the way Tomac does. Tomac almost looks afraid to get too close to other riders at times, especially when he has faster rhythms. He just reverts to the slower option while following and seems hesitant to jump inside someone going into a corner.
As an ET fan I would like to see him rough up a couple of top guys in a corner & send a message. That is not his riding style though. He has always had good racing etiquette like RD so I don’t see him changing that up especially at this stage in his career.
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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 1/12/2020 7:59am
1/12/2020 7:59am
He was jumping stuff nobody else was jumping......why no mention of that on tv?
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Mr. Afterbar
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Mr. Afterbar 1/12/2020 8:19am
1/12/2020 8:19am
Mr. Afterbar wrote:
I agree. He needs to be more aggressive. If someone is holding him up, he needs to not be afraid to make contact. That's the only...
I agree. He needs to be more aggressive. If someone is holding him up, he needs to not be afraid to make contact. That's the only way he's going to get good results with his horrible starts. Zacho, Barcia, and Anderson would not ride around behind other riders the way Tomac does. Tomac almost looks afraid to get too close to other riders at times, especially when he has faster rhythms. He just reverts to the slower option while following and seems hesitant to jump inside someone going into a corner.
H4L wrote:
As an ET fan I would like to see him rough up a couple of top guys in a corner & send a message. That is...
As an ET fan I would like to see him rough up a couple of top guys in a corner & send a message. That is not his riding style though. He has always had good racing etiquette like RD so I don’t see him changing that up especially at this stage in his career.
I totally agree and that's one of the things I respect about him. Never been a fan of overly-aggressive riding. That doesn't work in Supercross with his starts, though. If past seasons are anything to go off of, he's just getting warmed up. Hopefully he can figure out his starts. 2-3 years ago they were much less of a problem for him.

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Rick Amatuzio 1/12/2020 8:28am
1/12/2020 8:28am
He could just be avoiding catastrophe and waiting for the field to widdle down, as it traditionally happens.
Who knows, maybe he will start twisting it at the halfway point. It’s a gamble, but it worked for Dungey. I still think Tomac should try to get closer to the top 3 in case Barcia or Roczen get on a roll
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H4L
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H4L 1/12/2020 8:34am
1/12/2020 8:34am
Mr. Afterbar wrote:
I totally agree and that's one of the things I respect about him. Never been a fan of overly-aggressive riding. That doesn't work in Supercross with...
I totally agree and that's one of the things I respect about him. Never been a fan of overly-aggressive riding. That doesn't work in Supercross with his starts, though. If past seasons are anything to go off of, he's just getting warmed up. Hopefully he can figure out his starts. 2-3 years ago they were much less of a problem for him.
Yup. Not a fan of dirty racing, but as an ex-racer I think we’ve all banged bars & put out our elbows in a corner at one time or another. I’m expecting him to turn it up a notch after a 1/4 into the series.
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Mr. Afterbar
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Mr. Afterbar 1/12/2020 8:35am
1/12/2020 8:35am
He really should just start inside every race and sneak around the inside. He won't get the holeshot, but he will at least start in the top 10.
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prozach
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prozach 1/12/2020 8:37am
1/12/2020 8:37am
Dude was like 18th off the start. If he had started even top five both races the narrative might be different. He moved up really fast last night and was aggressive early, probably hit a wall mid way, but seemed to find some fire again the last couple laps.

Field is insanely healthy and deep right now. Starting in the back half of the field every race isn't going to do it for him anymore.
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St Ann More
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St Ann More 1/12/2020 9:05am
1/12/2020 9:05am
Talk about pressing the panic button early.

We're two rounds down! Revisit this at the end of 2020 and crow will be eaten.


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RandyS
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RandyS 1/12/2020 9:11am
1/12/2020 9:11am Edited Date/Time 1/12/2020 9:12am
He looked horrible, it wasn't really a track that made anyone look good but he looked especially bad. Overjumping, underjumping. Was he the one that flat landed the over jump in the heat on the first lap?
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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 1/12/2020 9:12am
1/12/2020 9:12am Edited Date/Time 1/12/2020 9:13am
RandyS wrote:
He looked horrible, it wasn't really a track that made anyone look good but he looked especially bad. Overjumping, underjumping. Was he the one that flat...
He looked horrible, it wasn't really a track that made anyone look good but he looked especially bad. Overjumping, underjumping. Was he the one that flat landed the over jump in the heat on the first lap?
No, I think that was ARay?
Goofy Foot
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Goofy Foot 1/12/2020 9:19am
1/12/2020 9:19am
I’d say there’s plenty of Raw speed going from 15th+ to 4th on a tight track...he’s riding smart at the moment
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pilotdude
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pilotdude 1/12/2020 9:21am
1/12/2020 9:21am Edited Date/Time 1/12/2020 12:08pm
18th to 4th in this field is very good. That said, he has a baby on the way and just turned 27 last November.

Retirement ages of past top-tier recent champions:

Ryan Villopoto: 26 (Turned 27 on August 13th, 2015 after he had retired.)

Ricky Carmichael: 26 (Last full season)

Ryan Dungey: 27

So in retrospect, Tomac is actually older than Carmichael when RC ran his last full season, and is older than Villopoto when he retired at age 26.

I'm quite sure he has enough money, and that is probably no longer a motivating factor for him. The question is whether there is still the fire in his belly to make it happen in Supercross, and to repeat again outdoors.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if he retired at the end of his current contract.
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Todd_Dooley 1/12/2020 9:29am
1/12/2020 9:29am
IMO At the first hardpack track we'll see beastmode, the past couple of years he hasn't been as dominant on the tracks that break down and get rutted. Maybe just playing it safe, the rough and rutted tracks are the one's that'll bite ya
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Mugeneco 1/12/2020 9:39am
1/12/2020 9:39am
Todd_Dooley wrote:
IMO At the first hardpack track we'll see beastmode, the past couple of years he hasn't been as dominant on the tracks that break down and...
IMO At the first hardpack track we'll see beastmode, the past couple of years he hasn't been as dominant on the tracks that break down and get rutted. Maybe just playing it safe, the rough and rutted tracks are the one's that'll bite ya
didnt Tomac win on this track in 2018 and 2017 ??
remember commentators talk about it , so this track did fit him in past

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