Tomac’s main problem is completely out of his control

TDeath21 wrote:

Who is to blame? His predecessors. McGrath, Carmichael, Stewart, Villopoto, and Dungey. Think about it. As far as US riders go, we went through that line...

Who is to blame? His predecessors. McGrath, Carmichael, Stewart, Villopoto, and Dungey.

Think about it. As far as US riders go, we went through that line in that order, and some could argue that is the top 5 US riders EVER. I wouldn’t personally, but I can see how some would.

Those guys have placed an insane expectation on the next US rider to be like them, which is Tomac, and he just isn’t quite at the all time great level those guys are. There is nothing wrong with this. He’s still a top guy in today’s SX/MX world.

If I had to compare him to any of those five, it would be Stewart, but a worse version of him. Very fast, but doesn’t handle pressure very well and doesn’t know when to back it down and look at the big picture. And if you’re a slightly worse version of Stewart, then you’re an incredible rider and will have a great career.

It’s extremely hard to be “the guy” year in and year out, race in and race out. That’s why the sustained excellence of Dungey, Villopoto, Carmichael, and McGrath is so incredible. Roczen looked like the guy last year and crashed out. Tomac finally fought back to be the guy heading into New Jersey last year and he had a horrible race. Tomac was the guy coming into this year and he crashed out. Musquin was the guy going into the second round and he crashed out.

What those all time greats did before Tomac has placed an unrealistic expectation on Tomac and what he should be like and what he should accomplish. We all need to sit back and think that maybe, just maybe, we went through a rare era where we saw all time greats pass the torch to each other, and we are now in an era where there are no US riders who are all time greats. This is okay, and it actually creates better championship battles and more exciting races for us fans.

Katoomey wrote:

You've acutally found a way to blame the greats of this sport, (for being too great) for Tomac's on track mistakes. get a grip man. winners...

You've acutally found a way to blame the greats of this sport, (for being too great) for Tomac's on track mistakes. get a grip man.

winners are leaders, and leaders inspire themselves. If Tomac really is a winner, he could give 2 shits what the greats did or didn't do before him, or how he stacks up against them.

gnarwhip wrote:

Funny how you put Dungey on that list. RV beat him 4 years in a row in 450 sx. Dungey is tier 2 like Stanton, Bayle...

Funny how you put Dungey on that list. RV beat him 4 years in a row in 450 sx. Dungey is tier 2 like Stanton, Bayle, Bradshaw, Emig. Not a tier 1 guy.

drt410 wrote:

Its crazy how far Kennys crash pushed him out of the discussion. Tomac isnt even the fastest guy in the American circuit. This entire thread should...

Its crazy how far Kennys crash pushed him out of the discussion. Tomac isnt even the fastest guy in the American circuit. This entire thread should be geared towards Roczen as far as Im concerned Tomac is and was the #2 guy. Kenny had him covered had just wont his 2nd championship and was hauling ass and the favorite to win sx before that crash. Kenny is the next guy and hasnt had long enough to prove if he is not anymore. So far it looks like he still will be. Tomac has 1 championship and he just got it, Kenny won the outdoors his first time years ago straight up vs Dungey in his prime. Its crazy how fast you get forgot about in this sport. Tomac has never been better than Roczen and literally just won his first championship after years in the class and in a completely unconvincing form. Kenny DOMINATED his outdoor championship 2 years ago like the other guys shouldnt even have been on the same track. Hes already this good after taking a year off the bike Id say he is still the guy until proven otherwise. Tomac gets far too much credit for what he has accomplished. Yes he is an incredible rider but what has he really done? Rode fast as hell in 2015 and yard saled it, then dicked around for a few years figuring out the kawi, lost the sx title to Dungey even after winning more than him, finally wins a very shaky outdoors, and now shits it again first race of the sx season. At this point in his career he has too much pressure while at the same time getting too much credit. Who really is the man? Im a huge Tomac fan but he has 1 outdoors championship to Kennys 2. Yes both of them were faster than Dungey but Kenny is the only one that beat Dungey straight up-his ktm 450 championship.

BobbyM wrote:

If Joe Montana choked in all the big games on the line he wouldn't have been Joe Montana. Tomac is no Joe Montana

TDeath21 wrote:

Who is to blame? His predecessors. McGrath, Carmichael, Stewart, Villopoto, and Dungey. Think about it. As far as US riders go, we went through that line...

Who is to blame? His predecessors. McGrath, Carmichael, Stewart, Villopoto, and Dungey.

Think about it. As far as US riders go, we went through that line in that order, and some could argue that is the top 5 US riders EVER. I wouldn’t personally, but I can see how some would.

Those guys have placed an insane expectation on the next US rider to be like them, which is Tomac, and he just isn’t quite at the all time great level those guys are. There is nothing wrong with this. He’s still a top guy in today’s SX/MX world.

If I had to compare him to any of those five, it would be Stewart, but a worse version of him. Very fast, but doesn’t handle pressure very well and doesn’t know when to back it down and look at the big picture. And if you’re a slightly worse version of Stewart, then you’re an incredible rider and will have a great career.

It’s extremely hard to be “the guy” year in and year out, race in and race out. That’s why the sustained excellence of Dungey, Villopoto, Carmichael, and McGrath is so incredible. Roczen looked like the guy last year and crashed out. Tomac finally fought back to be the guy heading into New Jersey last year and he had a horrible race. Tomac was the guy coming into this year and he crashed out. Musquin was the guy going into the second round and he crashed out.

What those all time greats did before Tomac has placed an unrealistic expectation on Tomac and what he should be like and what he should accomplish. We all need to sit back and think that maybe, just maybe, we went through a rare era where we saw all time greats pass the torch to each other, and we are now in an era where there are no US riders who are all time greats. This is okay, and it actually creates better championship battles and more exciting races for us fans.

gnarwhip wrote:

Funny how you put Dungey on that list. RV beat him 4 years in a row in 450 sx. Dungey is tier 2 like Stanton, Bayle...

Funny how you put Dungey on that list. RV beat him 4 years in a row in 450 sx. Dungey is tier 2 like Stanton, Bayle, Bradshaw, Emig. Not a tier 1 guy.

gnarwhip wrote:

Funny how you put Dungey on that list. RV beat him 4 years in a row in 450 sx. Dungey is tier 2 like Stanton, Bayle...

Funny how you put Dungey on that list. RV beat him 4 years in a row in 450 sx. Dungey is tier 2 like Stanton, Bayle, Bradshaw, Emig. Not a tier 1 guy.

BobbyM wrote:

Yer nuttier than a squirrel turd.

TDeath21 wrote:

Who is to blame? His predecessors. McGrath, Carmichael, Stewart, Villopoto, and Dungey. Think about it. As far as US riders go, we went through that line...

Who is to blame? His predecessors. McGrath, Carmichael, Stewart, Villopoto, and Dungey.

Think about it. As far as US riders go, we went through that line in that order, and some could argue that is the top 5 US riders EVER. I wouldn’t personally, but I can see how some would.

Those guys have placed an insane expectation on the next US rider to be like them, which is Tomac, and he just isn’t quite at the all time great level those guys are. There is nothing wrong with this. He’s still a top guy in today’s SX/MX world.

If I had to compare him to any of those five, it would be Stewart, but a worse version of him. Very fast, but doesn’t handle pressure very well and doesn’t know when to back it down and look at the big picture. And if you’re a slightly worse version of Stewart, then you’re an incredible rider and will have a great career.

It’s extremely hard to be “the guy” year in and year out, race in and race out. That’s why the sustained excellence of Dungey, Villopoto, Carmichael, and McGrath is so incredible. Roczen looked like the guy last year and crashed out. Tomac finally fought back to be the guy heading into New Jersey last year and he had a horrible race. Tomac was the guy coming into this year and he crashed out. Musquin was the guy going into the second round and he crashed out.

What those all time greats did before Tomac has placed an unrealistic expectation on Tomac and what he should be like and what he should accomplish. We all need to sit back and think that maybe, just maybe, we went through a rare era where we saw all time greats pass the torch to each other, and we are now in an era where there are no US riders who are all time greats. This is okay, and it actually creates better championship battles and more exciting races for us fans.

drt410 wrote:

Its crazy how far Kennys crash pushed him out of the discussion. Tomac isnt even the fastest guy in the American circuit. This entire thread should...

Its crazy how far Kennys crash pushed him out of the discussion. Tomac isnt even the fastest guy in the American circuit. This entire thread should be geared towards Roczen as far as Im concerned Tomac is and was the #2 guy. Kenny had him covered had just wont his 2nd championship and was hauling ass and the favorite to win sx before that crash. Kenny is the next guy and hasnt had long enough to prove if he is not anymore. So far it looks like he still will be. Tomac has 1 championship and he just got it, Kenny won the outdoors his first time years ago straight up vs Dungey in his prime. Its crazy how fast you get forgot about in this sport. Tomac has never been better than Roczen and literally just won his first championship after years in the class and in a completely unconvincing form. Kenny DOMINATED his outdoor championship 2 years ago like the other guys shouldnt even have been on the same track. Hes already this good after taking a year off the bike Id say he is still the guy until proven otherwise. Tomac gets far too much credit for what he has accomplished. Yes he is an incredible rider but what has he really done? Rode fast as hell in 2015 and yard saled it, then dicked around for a few years figuring out the kawi, lost the sx title to Dungey even after winning more than him, finally wins a very shaky outdoors, and now shits it again first race of the sx season. At this point in his career he has too much pressure while at the same time getting too much credit. Who really is the man? Im a huge Tomac fan but he has 1 outdoors championship to Kennys 2. Yes both of them were faster than Dungey but Kenny is the only one that beat Dungey straight up-his ktm 450 championship.

LoudLove wrote:

The mental aspect of racing sometimes takes a back seat to our fascination with raw speed. MC, RC, RV, and RD all had the ability to...

The mental aspect of racing sometimes takes a back seat to our fascination with raw speed. MC, RC, RV, and RD all had the ability to compartmentalize events, evaluate situations in microseconds, and understand the hairline difference between success and failure. Only on rare occasion did they let circumstances overwhelm their athletic ability, but those instances never impacted their focus on achieving goals.

Some question whether Dungey belongs in the conversation. To that I reply: he may be the best example of perseverance through adversity. Yes, he lost to RV in four consecutive years (after winning the title in 2010). That would have broken the will of most riders, resulting in a lack of focus and determination. Dungey responded by winning 3 consecutive titles of his own, even when he was not the fastest rider on the track.

Sometimes you win titles by mentally staying in the game while others around you crumble.

gnarwhip wrote:

Funny how you put Dungey on that list. RV beat him 4 years in a row in 450 sx. Dungey is tier 2 like Stanton, Bayle...

Funny how you put Dungey on that list. RV beat him 4 years in a row in 450 sx. Dungey is tier 2 like Stanton, Bayle, Bradshaw, Emig. Not a tier 1 guy.

BobbyM wrote:

Yer nuttier than a squirrel turd.

gnarwhip wrote:

Funny how you put Dungey on that list. RV beat him 4 years in a row in 450 sx. Dungey is tier 2 like Stanton, Bayle...

Funny how you put Dungey on that list. RV beat him 4 years in a row in 450 sx. Dungey is tier 2 like Stanton, Bayle, Bradshaw, Emig. Not a tier 1 guy.

BobbyM wrote:

Yer nuttier than a squirrel turd.

vetmxr wrote:

I can pretty much assure you that Ryan Dungey would not want Damon Bradshaw behind him, or Stanton....... You think Freise or Anderson are crazy dirty...

I can pretty much assure you that Ryan Dungey would not want Damon Bradshaw behind him, or Stanton....... You think Freise or Anderson are crazy dirty riders.......Go back and watch a 90's supercross with Bradshaw and Matasevich going at it........They hit each other so hard parts went flying off.

And they were doing it while leading......not mired in the pack.

kzizok wrote:

What if Tomac doesn’t have a problem and that’s just racing?

Fearo wrote:

The Mcgrath, Rc's, Everts', Villopoto's, Dungey's and Cairoli's of this world have made it seem like there will always be some superhuman dirtbike racer that wins...

The Mcgrath, Rc's, Everts', Villopoto's, Dungey's and Cairoli's of this world have made it seem like there will always be some superhuman dirtbike racer that wins everything there is to win, and is always perfect.

Both sides of the pond have had long spells where this was actually the case:
-US: Mcgrath -> RC -> Villopoto -> Dungey
-Europe: Everts -> Cairoli

But for now those times are DONE. There are no ultra dominant, 'perfect in every way' riders in the sport right now. For the first time in decades. Get used to it, because this won't be changing anytime soon.

NVA57 wrote:

Cairoli is still in the sport. Herlings will probably dominate Europe from here on out. Roczen had a freak accident, otherwise he probably would've been the...

Cairoli is still in the sport. Herlings will probably dominate Europe from here on out.

Roczen had a freak accident, otherwise he probably would've been the dominant force right now, and maybe he still will be in the future. Also Tomac won a shitload of SX races just last season and was pretty dominant at that. I'd bet hadn't he crashed at A1, people would talk of him as the second coming of RV.

gnarwhip wrote:

Funny how you put Dungey on that list. RV beat him 4 years in a row in 450 sx. Dungey is tier 2 like Stanton, Bayle...

Funny how you put Dungey on that list. RV beat him 4 years in a row in 450 sx. Dungey is tier 2 like Stanton, Bayle, Bradshaw, Emig. Not a tier 1 guy.

Fearo wrote:

The Mcgrath, Rc's, Everts', Villopoto's, Dungey's and Cairoli's of this world have made it seem like there will always be some superhuman dirtbike racer that wins...

The Mcgrath, Rc's, Everts', Villopoto's, Dungey's and Cairoli's of this world have made it seem like there will always be some superhuman dirtbike racer that wins everything there is to win, and is always perfect.

Both sides of the pond have had long spells where this was actually the case:
-US: Mcgrath -> RC -> Villopoto -> Dungey
-Europe: Everts -> Cairoli

But for now those times are DONE. There are no ultra dominant, 'perfect in every way' riders in the sport right now. For the first time in decades. Get used to it, because this won't be changing anytime soon.

Fearo wrote:

You guys replying to my post have proven my point exactly. It's all IFs and BUTs with riders right now. IF Roczen hadn't crashed, IF tomac...

You guys replying to my post have proven my point exactly.

It's all IFs and BUTs with riders right now. IF Roczen hadn't crashed, IF tomac hadn't....
Nobody is saying that the level of talent or skill is lower than it was in years past. However I don't think anyone of them is capable of going on a 5 year tear winning every championship like we have gotten accustomed to seeing.

Also, yes, I can know Cairoli is still racing, thanks for the info.....I do think his era of dominance is over and we have seen his last world title, but even if we haven't, him and Chad Reed are the ONLY riders in MX/SX with more than one premier class title right now.... Let that sink in for a minute. When was the last time this was the case?

I read so many posts about people desperately trying convince others that their favorite rider is THE guy for whatever reason, but the reality is that there is no THE guy right now. To be able to compare someone with the likes of RC, Everts, RV or Cairoli a rider would have to win multiple titles for a certain amount of years. That scenario is years away for any rider on the gate right now. I really don't get how people don't see that.

WCRider wrote:

Tomac last year was faster and better than Roczen this year.

Look how Anderson pass Roczen. JA was in "ET beast mod on" saturday.

ET/Anderson>Roczen/Musquin.