Tomac vs. Baker

bigborefan
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bigborefan
Edited Date/Time 7/21/2014 1:38pm
John vs. Aldon that is. Millville was a battle of the MTB trainers.
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Driven71
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Driven71 7/20/2014 3:17pm
7/20/2014 3:17pm
I thought Aldon came from road cycling?
Regis
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Regis 7/20/2014 3:18pm
7/20/2014 3:18pm Edited Date/Time 7/20/2014 3:22pm
It's been a long healthy year for Kenny.

Eli is coming in "fresh" off an injury.

Eli is in it to win races, Kenny is in it for the long haul now. It's not really comparing apples to apples.

They are both bad asses at different stages of the year.
TripleFive 7/20/2014 3:28pm
7/20/2014 3:28pm
Regis wrote:
It's been a long healthy year for Kenny. Eli is coming in "fresh" off an injury. Eli is in it to win races, Kenny is in...
It's been a long healthy year for Kenny.

Eli is coming in "fresh" off an injury.

Eli is in it to win races, Kenny is in it for the long haul now. It's not really comparing apples to apples.

They are both bad asses at different stages of the year.
Hunting down KRoc at the end of motos is what Eli does.

I think Eli is in Ken's head.
Cygnus
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Cygnus 7/20/2014 3:30pm
7/20/2014 3:30pm
Regis wrote:
It's been a long healthy year for Kenny. Eli is coming in "fresh" off an injury. Eli is in it to win races, Kenny is in...
It's been a long healthy year for Kenny.

Eli is coming in "fresh" off an injury.

Eli is in it to win races, Kenny is in it for the long haul now. It's not really comparing apples to apples.

They are both bad asses at different stages of the year.
TripleFive wrote:
Hunting down KRoc at the end of motos is what Eli does.

I think Eli is in Ken's head.
Maybe not quite yet but if Eli keeps this up you never know.

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Outsider
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Outsider 7/20/2014 3:31pm
7/20/2014 3:31pm
Kenny did look a little pissed after Moto 1, from the comfort of my office chair that is
gsxrcr28
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gsxrcr28 7/20/2014 3:33pm
7/20/2014 3:33pm
Outsider wrote:
Kenny did look a little pissed after Moto 1, from the comfort of my office chair that is
Laughing

I agree. Gotta love that, dude wants to win.
Cashmore
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Cashmore 7/20/2014 3:38pm
7/20/2014 3:38pm
I thought Ryno was training Eli?
MJC
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MJC 7/20/2014 4:03pm
7/20/2014 4:03pm
Regis wrote:
It's been a long healthy year for Kenny. Eli is coming in "fresh" off an injury. Eli is in it to win races, Kenny is in...
It's been a long healthy year for Kenny.

Eli is coming in "fresh" off an injury.

Eli is in it to win races, Kenny is in it for the long haul now. It's not really comparing apples to apples.

They are both bad asses at different stages of the year.
TripleFive wrote:
Hunting down KRoc at the end of motos is what Eli does.

I think Eli is in Ken's head.
Cygnus wrote:
Maybe not quite yet but if Eli keeps this up you never know.
Regis is right, Ken only needs to race Dungey. Tomac isn't in the "big" race due to injury. Bragging rights and ego yes, but not the championship
plowboy
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plowboy 7/20/2014 4:06pm
7/20/2014 4:06pm
It's obvious they are both uber.fit. I do think Ken had a wtf sorta.day. He's been crushing it and outta.nowhere Eli just...won't...quit... Couldn't ask for better racing...Imo.
Rdubs19
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Rdubs19 7/20/2014 4:22pm
7/20/2014 4:22pm
Aldon was a mountain biker, I'm pretty sure
bsharkey
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bsharkey 7/20/2014 4:24pm
7/20/2014 4:24pm
TripleFive wrote:
Hunting down KRoc at the end of motos is what Eli does.

I think Eli is in Ken's head.
Cygnus wrote:
Maybe not quite yet but if Eli keeps this up you never know.
MJC wrote:
Regis is right, Ken only needs to race Dungey. Tomac isn't in the "big" race due to injury. Bragging rights and ego yes, but not the...
Regis is right, Ken only needs to race Dungey. Tomac isn't in the "big" race due to injury. Bragging rights and ego yes, but not the championship
ha ha that is laughable. theres no way ken wants to lose to Eli period
SouthwestMfg
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SouthwestMfg 7/20/2014 5:07pm
7/20/2014 5:07pm
John Tomac raced BMX, pro mountain bike (championships in cross-country and downhill) then pro road bikes. Raced two seasons (?) on the road in Europe.
Aldon Baker raced mountain bikes. No where near the level of Mr.T, he was the top of the tops on mtb's.
Ryan Hughes was Eli's trainer last I heard.
Being a pro bike racer does not make you a pro trainer, it's a good start though.
stantdm
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stantdm 7/20/2014 5:33pm
7/20/2014 5:33pm
I thought, after the first 450 moto, that Eli probably caused Roczen a great deal of mental anguish the way he ran him down and passed him. No one has done that to Ken that way this year. When Dungey sneaked by Roczen at Glen Helen it was just a quick thing. Eli stalked him, passed him, and then checked out. That has to bother Roczen a great deal. He will be looking over his shoulder now.
StartedTooLate 7/20/2014 5:33pm
7/20/2014 5:33pm Edited Date/Time 7/20/2014 5:34pm
The performance difference between ET and KR has nothing to do with training. Both these guys are trained close to their potential. KR can train perfectly and he may never be able to match Eli with regards to pure athletic ability. We seem to think that these guys are just blank slates and 100% of their physical potential is determined by how they train. Nonsense. There is the genetic / athletic capability factor at play as well.
bigborefan
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bigborefan 7/20/2014 5:46pm
7/20/2014 5:46pm
I think if John Tomac is your dad, you got a bit of a head start.
TeamPropainTurbo38t 7/20/2014 5:48pm
7/20/2014 5:48pm
StartedTooLate wrote:
The performance difference between ET and KR has nothing to do with training. Both these guys are trained close to their potential. KR can train perfectly...
The performance difference between ET and KR has nothing to do with training. Both these guys are trained close to their potential. KR can train perfectly and he may never be able to match Eli with regards to pure athletic ability. We seem to think that these guys are just blank slates and 100% of their physical potential is determined by how they train. Nonsense. There is the genetic / athletic capability factor at play as well.
LOL......Roczen is a natural though......he just got smoked yesterday....
mojoman42
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mojoman42 7/20/2014 5:52pm
7/20/2014 5:52pm
Regis wrote:
It's been a long healthy year for Kenny. Eli is coming in "fresh" off an injury. Eli is in it to win races, Kenny is in...
It's been a long healthy year for Kenny.

Eli is coming in "fresh" off an injury.

Eli is in it to win races, Kenny is in it for the long haul now. It's not really comparing apples to apples.

They are both bad asses at different stages of the year.
Bull, it's so much harder for a rider to come into a season halfway through and find that pace. Kenny was going as fast as he has been all year, but Tomac went that much faster yesterday.
rocketsocks26 7/20/2014 5:55pm
7/20/2014 5:55pm
Bigborefan u are 100% right. And im sorry, but after what eli did this weekend, the 94 is gna have some sleepless nights. N once roczens head is rattled thats when mistakes happen. N im not a dungey fan, but will put a franklin on it that he is the champ after rd 12!

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StartedTooLate 7/20/2014 6:04pm
7/20/2014 6:04pm Edited Date/Time 7/20/2014 6:05pm
StartedTooLate wrote:
The performance difference between ET and KR has nothing to do with training. Both these guys are trained close to their potential. KR can train perfectly...
The performance difference between ET and KR has nothing to do with training. Both these guys are trained close to their potential. KR can train perfectly and he may never be able to match Eli with regards to pure athletic ability. We seem to think that these guys are just blank slates and 100% of their physical potential is determined by how they train. Nonsense. There is the genetic / athletic capability factor at play as well.
TeamPropainTurbo38t wrote:
LOL......Roczen is a natural though......he just got smoked yesterday....
What are you laughing at? Do you really believe that just anyone can be an Olympic champion? Anyone can run a 3:43 mile? All they have to do is put in the work? Nonsense. VO2 Max, aerobic capacity, anaerobic recovery rates...these are all determined by genetics. What makes you think the same athletic factors that separate competitors in all sports can not do the same in MX. Eli Tomac is John Tomac's son.

Given a similar level of skill on the bike, athletic factors emerge. What we saw yesterday was ET's athletic advantage.
StartedTooLate 7/20/2014 6:14pm
7/20/2014 6:14pm
Regis wrote:
It's been a long healthy year for Kenny. Eli is coming in "fresh" off an injury. Eli is in it to win races, Kenny is in...
It's been a long healthy year for Kenny.

Eli is coming in "fresh" off an injury.

Eli is in it to win races, Kenny is in it for the long haul now. It's not really comparing apples to apples.

They are both bad asses at different stages of the year.
mojoman42 wrote:
Bull, it's so much harder for a rider to come into a season halfway through and find that pace. Kenny was going as fast as he...
Bull, it's so much harder for a rider to come into a season halfway through and find that pace. Kenny was going as fast as he has been all year, but Tomac went that much faster yesterday.
I guess we will know in a month or so. We will see if ET dominates the way he did at Washougal, Unadilla and Utah last year. I am of the belief that coming in half way through a season is really tough to get up to speed. There is the issue of getting the pace, as well as getting your bike dialed in for race conditions.
StartedTooLate 7/20/2014 6:20pm
7/20/2014 6:20pm Edited Date/Time 7/20/2014 6:22pm
bigborefan wrote:
I think if John Tomac is your dad, you got a bit of a head start.
Yeah...check out this excerpt from a Tomac interview...

"In 1988 you won the National Criterium Championships. How did you go from racing mountain bikes to winning a national title on the road?
Well, at the same time I started mountain biking, I started road riding for training and got in with a local club. I just used it for training mostly, but then decided to race and got interested in road racing and started doing local events. It didn’t take me long either. I went from my first race and within six months, I think I was a category 2 on the road. So that progression was super fast."

Cat 4 to Cat 2 in 6 months? In southern CA in 1988? Winning the national criterium championship the same year? Absurd.

See more at: http://www.switchbackmb.com/Trail/content/18/995/John-Tomac-Part-1
Cygnus
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Cygnus 7/20/2014 6:23pm
7/20/2014 6:23pm
Regis wrote:
It's been a long healthy year for Kenny. Eli is coming in "fresh" off an injury. Eli is in it to win races, Kenny is in...
It's been a long healthy year for Kenny.

Eli is coming in "fresh" off an injury.

Eli is in it to win races, Kenny is in it for the long haul now. It's not really comparing apples to apples.

They are both bad asses at different stages of the year.
mojoman42 wrote:
Bull, it's so much harder for a rider to come into a season halfway through and find that pace. Kenny was going as fast as he...
Bull, it's so much harder for a rider to come into a season halfway through and find that pace. Kenny was going as fast as he has been all year, but Tomac went that much faster yesterday.
StartedTooLate wrote:
I guess we will know in a month or so. We will see if ET dominates the way he did at Washougal, Unadilla and Utah last...
I guess we will know in a month or so. We will see if ET dominates the way he did at Washougal, Unadilla and Utah last year. I am of the belief that coming in half way through a season is really tough to get up to speed. There is the issue of getting the pace, as well as getting your bike dialed in for race conditions.
Once you have the pace you have the pace. Even if for only a lap. James proves it week after week
Dart Board 7/20/2014 6:36pm
7/20/2014 6:36pm
rocketsocks26 wrote:
Bigborefan u are 100% right. And im sorry, but after what eli did this weekend, the 94 is gna have some sleepless nights. N once roczens...
Bigborefan u are 100% right. And im sorry, but after what eli did this weekend, the 94 is gna have some sleepless nights. N once roczens head is rattled thats when mistakes happen. N im not a dungey fan, but will put a franklin on it that he is the champ after rd 12!
That's interesting. Dungey got his ass kicked too. And it was his hometown race at a track he has notoriously done well at.
cheapsmack 7/20/2014 6:44pm
7/20/2014 6:44pm
If it's 90 degrees and 90 percent humidity Roc won't hang with Tomac and Dunge. I think the title will be decided by the weather. Ken is from a damp and cool climate, when it's hot he can't put out the same amount of energy as long . He has improved every year and time will tell if he can Acclimate to their level.
Crush
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Crush 7/20/2014 6:50pm
7/20/2014 6:50pm
MJC wrote:
Regis is right, Ken only needs to race Dungey. Tomac isn't in the "big" race due to injury. Bragging rights and ego yes, but not the...
Regis is right, Ken only needs to race Dungey. Tomac isn't in the "big" race due to injury. Bragging rights and ego yes, but not the championship
Agree he doesn't but that first moto, Kenny put up a hell of a fight for someone who doesn't "have to care"...

IceMan446
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IceMan446 7/20/2014 6:56pm
7/20/2014 6:56pm
Dungey is on par with ET and Kenny as far as fitness goes.

But ET is the one that can pull the trigger and make it happen when he needs to unlike Dungey.

Dungey is going to have to really change that if he wants to beat out Kenny or ET for championships.

I think Aldons program is the top of the elite guys but what ever ET is doing is damn close.

All I know is I am looking forward to seeing more of the young guns battle for a long time to come.
Preston412
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Preston412 7/20/2014 7:02pm
7/20/2014 7:02pm
Tomac's bike seem to have the best set up for that race, he was the smoothest in the rough sections
Uncleof2
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Uncleof2 7/20/2014 7:03pm
7/20/2014 7:03pm
In MX/SX I think Aldon has a few more championshipsWink
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Sully 7/20/2014 7:21pm
7/20/2014 7:21pm
IceMan446 wrote:
Dungey is on par with ET and Kenny as far as fitness goes. But ET is the one that can pull the trigger and make it...
Dungey is on par with ET and Kenny as far as fitness goes.

But ET is the one that can pull the trigger and make it happen when he needs to unlike Dungey.

Dungey is going to have to really change that if he wants to beat out Kenny or ET for championships.

I think Aldons program is the top of the elite guys but what ever ET is doing is damn close.

All I know is I am looking forward to seeing more of the young guns battle for a long time to come.
I don't think fitness is an issue for any of the top 3. The big thing to me is the mental side, and I think Eli has that RV attitude of "No one on the track is faster than I am," and it shows in his interviews. There's nothing cocky about it, there's just a solid confidence that can't be taught or trained. Only time will tell if Tomac has the same success as RV, but he definitely shares the same attitude.
bvm111
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bvm111 7/20/2014 7:23pm
7/20/2014 7:23pm
Uncleof2 wrote:
In MX/SX I think Aldon has a few more championshipsWink
Unc.... I'll take Tomac over Baker any day of the week.

Let's use racing terminology.... You are only as good as your last race.

That was no fluke, Eli crushed Kenny!

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