Tomac happy

5/11/2019 2:38pm Edited Date/Time 5/11/2019 2:39pm
I don't think anyone said Tomac doesn't or hasn't choked under the pressure, in fact I think the third sentence in the post you replied to...
I don't think anyone said Tomac doesn't or hasn't choked under the pressure, in fact I think the third sentence in the post you replied to said he said. The point that I think others, as well as myself are trying to make is that choking under the pressure isn't unique to Tomac. Look at Marvin, this SX season was the third series in two years where it looks like he's going to take a run at the title and then something happens or he just rides bad, but I'm guessing to the experts here that has nothing to do with pressure, right?
i know , but his story is a bit on the edge to say Tomac doesnt choke ...or did just once in his career ..
lot of racers , kind of choke , pressure does that to some ...its human , to deny it is human ,,thats sad and stupid
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mx317
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5/11/2019 2:41pm
mxer15 wrote:
I didn't mean to say fastest ever I meant fastest this year. Pain meds talking a little there lol. I think some races he had bike...
I didn't mean to say fastest ever I meant fastest this year. Pain meds talking a little there lol. I think some races he had bike issues that perhaps made him ride conservative and Kawasaki was trying to hide some after all the clear bike issues E3 had and JS had. I know I would shitting my pants not knowing if the bike would cut out as I was jumping a triple scary. Thoughts?
He was the fastest at Vegas, but Webb had more wins and won the title.
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5/11/2019 2:45pm Edited Date/Time 5/11/2019 2:47pm
I don't think anyone said Tomac doesn't or hasn't choked under the pressure, in fact I think the third sentence in the post you replied to...
I don't think anyone said Tomac doesn't or hasn't choked under the pressure, in fact I think the third sentence in the post you replied to said he said. The point that I think others, as well as myself are trying to make is that choking under the pressure isn't unique to Tomac. Look at Marvin, this SX season was the third series in two years where it looks like he's going to take a run at the title and then something happens or he just rides bad, but I'm guessing to the experts here that has nothing to do with pressure, right?
i know , but his story is a bit on the edge to say Tomac doesnt choke ...or did just once in his career .. lot...
i know , but his story is a bit on the edge to say Tomac doesnt choke ...or did just once in his career ..
lot of racers , kind of choke , pressure does that to some ...its human , to deny it is human ,,thats sad and stupid
Agreed on both parts. It takes a special person to step up when the pressure is on, it's why guys like Webb, Dungey and Villopoto are/were so good. I'd even put Roczen in that category when he's feeling good.
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5/11/2019 2:55pm
the debate on fastest ever will never end. Just like people compare lebron James to michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant. Different times and different circumstances.
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Ranman68
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5/11/2019 3:07pm
All the top riders coming into the series were under pressure to win the title. If mistakes and not winning the title is "choking" , then they all choked. With Tomac having the most wins and most points other than Webb at the end, he "choked" less than the other top contenders. Falling apart in a clutch situation where you have the title if you come through at that moment. That is choking. That's what AC did at Vegas and what Tomac did in East Rutherford in 2017. If anything other than that is "choking", then all of them except for one each year has been choking. It's simple, and every rider has some fans that make excuses for them. Not just Tomac. Loots is just too stupid to understand simple truths and he's a hypocrite. His idol and man crush Herlings crashes himself out of contention for the GP title twice in the last three seasons, yet hes on here bashing Tomac and throwing around terms he saw on the internet like some 12 year old.
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Ranman68
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5/11/2019 3:19pm
I don't think anyone said Tomac doesn't or hasn't choked under the pressure, in fact I think the third sentence in the post you replied to...
I don't think anyone said Tomac doesn't or hasn't choked under the pressure, in fact I think the third sentence in the post you replied to said he said. The point that I think others, as well as myself are trying to make is that choking under the pressure isn't unique to Tomac. Look at Marvin, this SX season was the third series in two years where it looks like he's going to take a run at the title and then something happens or he just rides bad, but I'm guessing to the experts here that has nothing to do with pressure, right?
i know , but his story is a bit on the edge to say Tomac doesnt choke ...or did just once in his career .. lot...
i know , but his story is a bit on the edge to say Tomac doesnt choke ...or did just once in his career ..
lot of racers , kind of choke , pressure does that to some ...its human , to deny it is human ,,thats sad and stupid
So why is the only talk of choking about Tomac? Ive never seen you mention anyone else's choking. There's a couple of Euros in the sx series that have choked their asses off many times that you never never bring up. You're biased and hypocritical as hell.
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Texas Built
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5/11/2019 3:25pm
aees wrote:
He said in earlier interview that his focus was to get the bike dialed for next season sx. He knew the championship hunt was over several...
He said in earlier interview that his focus was to get the bike dialed for next season sx.

He knew the championship hunt was over several rounds ago so only thing to care for is that he can go into 2020 sx and work everyone from A1.

Let's now see if they can get the bike setup for Tomac speed outdoors.
The dude smoked everyone but Anderson last year. How many years are needed to "dial in" a bike?
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5/11/2019 3:35pm
I don't think anyone said Tomac doesn't or hasn't choked under the pressure, in fact I think the third sentence in the post you replied to...
I don't think anyone said Tomac doesn't or hasn't choked under the pressure, in fact I think the third sentence in the post you replied to said he said. The point that I think others, as well as myself are trying to make is that choking under the pressure isn't unique to Tomac. Look at Marvin, this SX season was the third series in two years where it looks like he's going to take a run at the title and then something happens or he just rides bad, but I'm guessing to the experts here that has nothing to do with pressure, right?
i know , but his story is a bit on the edge to say Tomac doesnt choke ...or did just once in his career .. lot...
i know , but his story is a bit on the edge to say Tomac doesnt choke ...or did just once in his career ..
lot of racers , kind of choke , pressure does that to some ...its human , to deny it is human ,,thats sad and stupid
Ranman68 wrote:
So why is the only talk of choking about Tomac? Ive never seen you mention anyone else's choking. There's a couple of Euros in the sx...
So why is the only talk of choking about Tomac? Ive never seen you mention anyone else's choking. There's a couple of Euros in the sx series that have choked their asses off many times that you never never bring up. You're biased and hypocritical as hell.
just for you ... for the record , i didnt create this picture ..

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Shaned9326
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5/11/2019 3:48pm
I’m just glad Supercross is done!! Now please let the real racing begin!! Good luck to all the riders including the mxgp guys this weekend!!
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Ranman68
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5/11/2019 3:50pm
The points I'm trying to make about Tomac are not to make excuses for him. I have always said that all titles are legit. You either get it done or you don't. Tomac didnt get it done and therefor isn't the SX champ. What I'm saying is that not all crashes or poor finishes are a result of "choking" or caused by being under pressure. Some are due to inability to get bike dialed well, loss of concentration, lingering injuries, or just having your head up your ass. Tomac choked in 2017. In 2018 and 2019, he just didn't get it done. He crashed himself out of contention early in 2018 from what was clearly a loss of concentration. In 2019 he didn't get good results consistently enough. People can debate as to why, but it's still a lack of good enough results. It's not making excuses for Tomac to say that or to say that it wasn't necessarily about choking. He just didn't put together as much consistent speed and the overall performances in every race to match Webb. Just like all the others. He just didn't get it done. He never had it in the bag and then threw it away. He just didn't get the results and points needed. There's no excuse and it's not automatically choking either. It's just results.
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kpiper
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5/11/2019 4:02pm
Tomac does seem to 'tip over' maybe more than some of the others. But it could be because he is trying to rail the turn so hard it just happens. Not all the time, but many, once he falls he seems slow to get up and flustered. I would not call that choking but something he should work on. Maybe he has.

As someone who has raced more times than I can count, sometimes you just go down and you have no idea why. Roczen said that very thing about his bad crash. He said he watched it over and over and never could figure out why.

Just happens. That is not choking. Often it happens when you are trying too hard.
Ranman68
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5/11/2019 4:49pm
i know , but his story is a bit on the edge to say Tomac doesnt choke ...or did just once in his career .. lot...
i know , but his story is a bit on the edge to say Tomac doesnt choke ...or did just once in his career ..
lot of racers , kind of choke , pressure does that to some ...its human , to deny it is human ,,thats sad and stupid
Ranman68 wrote:
So why is the only talk of choking about Tomac? Ive never seen you mention anyone else's choking. There's a couple of Euros in the sx...
So why is the only talk of choking about Tomac? Ive never seen you mention anyone else's choking. There's a couple of Euros in the sx series that have choked their asses off many times that you never never bring up. You're biased and hypocritical as hell.
just for you ... for the record , i didnt create this picture .. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/05/11/346413/s1200_Tomac.jpg.3a1cc9238ac58ffae1deb5f7db66a429.jpg[/img]
just for you ... for the record , i didnt create this picture ..

Someone who has a pic Herlings' ASS as his profile pic is on here bashing Tomac and calling anyone who defends Tomac a "Tomaniac". I bet Cairoli gets his 2nd mxgp title in the last 3 seasons no matter how many times you refer to Herlings as "FMOTP". You of all people criticizing Tomac is as hypocritical and ridiculous as it can get.
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biscuit11
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5/11/2019 5:12pm
He didnt blow the sx championship 2 years ago. What he did was made an impressive run that fell just short. I love how that one gets twisted after being down 27 and almost winning the championship. Him losing when he isnt “on” is basically him saying he wasnt good enough without having to come up with any more of a detailed reason or excuse. He takes it like a man and catches shit for the fact he isnt “on” every single race. Last time i checked the guy still puts his shoes on in the morning and brushes his teeth, just like all us normal humans.
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TbonesPop
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5/11/2019 5:41pm
race wrote:
Agree with Ranman68 - Once he fell behind far enough to make the title an unrealistic shot ... that took the pressure off. Unfortunately, it also...
Agree with Ranman68 -

Once he fell behind far enough to make the title an unrealistic shot ... that took the pressure off. Unfortunately, it also meant another season gone by with no title. Tomac does not appear to be someone who handles the pressure of a SX points race well. There's no other way to explain the major mistakes (in SX) over the years.

And if you're going to try to factor in late season stats you have to account for:

A: a depleted field
B. his chief rival Webb not about to risk the title by battling tooth and nail for individual event wins.

Outdoors is a different story as he is able to get away with his style of over-riding the track. While it works against him in SX ... the extra track space, less emphasis on timing sections, loose dirt, etc. on the outdoor tracks allows him to use a brute force approach with fewer consequences.
I disagree with you and Ranman68. And I think people are over thinking this debate. He now has openly admitted he broke his back in early December. He wasn't riding and testing at the level he should have been in December leading up to A1. So he started the season behind the eight ball. He also said that breaking his back fucked with him mentally - I've been injured and know what he means. Couple that with a new bike that he didn't have as much time to really dial in during the off season due to the injury and thus he got off to a bad start on the season. Several factors contributed to this.

I posted this in another thread. In the first 9 races in 2019, he won 2 races of which one was a mud race. He only led 16 laps in the first 9 races. In the last 8 races of the season (second half), he led 84 laps and won 4 of the 8 races (50%). That's a major turn around. But again, winning has never been his problem. He loses his SX titles on his bad nights, not his good nights. Even if you take him leading substantially more laps and having twice as many wins in less races, he still didn't gain much in the way of points overall (he was 22 back after Atlanta and finished 18 points back). His bad nights are what hurt him.

If he can figure that out, the rest of the field is screwed until he hangs it up. But that's yet to be seen. Only Eli can get that fixed.
TbonesPop
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5/11/2019 5:44pm
Ranman68 wrote:
The points I'm trying to make about Tomac are not to make excuses for him. I have always said that all titles are legit. You either...
The points I'm trying to make about Tomac are not to make excuses for him. I have always said that all titles are legit. You either get it done or you don't. Tomac didnt get it done and therefor isn't the SX champ. What I'm saying is that not all crashes or poor finishes are a result of "choking" or caused by being under pressure. Some are due to inability to get bike dialed well, loss of concentration, lingering injuries, or just having your head up your ass. Tomac choked in 2017. In 2018 and 2019, he just didn't get it done. He crashed himself out of contention early in 2018 from what was clearly a loss of concentration. In 2019 he didn't get good results consistently enough. People can debate as to why, but it's still a lack of good enough results. It's not making excuses for Tomac to say that or to say that it wasn't necessarily about choking. He just didn't put together as much consistent speed and the overall performances in every race to match Webb. Just like all the others. He just didn't get it done. He never had it in the bag and then threw it away. He just didn't get the results and points needed. There's no excuse and it's not automatically choking either. It's just results.
That's a good take. I agree
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Ranman68
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5/11/2019 6:33pm
biscuit11 wrote:
He didnt blow the sx championship 2 years ago. What he did was made an impressive run that fell just short. I love how that one...
He didnt blow the sx championship 2 years ago. What he did was made an impressive run that fell just short. I love how that one gets twisted after being down 27 and almost winning the championship. Him losing when he isnt “on” is basically him saying he wasnt good enough without having to come up with any more of a detailed reason or excuse. He takes it like a man and catches shit for the fact he isnt “on” every single race. Last time i checked the guy still puts his shoes on in the morning and brushes his teeth, just like all us normal humans.
Some people just hate Tomac and can't do anything but say whatever they negative can. Even those morons know that when Tomac is on, he wins by a fkn mile. He won twice as many races as all the other elite contenders combined. 6 dominant wins is pretty damn good, and Tomac had a good season. Being such a dominant outdoor rider who can also be the 2nd best supercross rider with a lot of sx wins is pretty damn impressive no matter what. He congratulated Webb and aknowledged that Webb had just been better than him. Musquin just talked about how he came into the season injured while Roczen talks about his sudden mytery illness. At round 16 Tomac had every opportunity in the world to try and take Webb out and give himself a legit shot at the title going into Vegas, but he didn't. He rode clean as hell. After mxon there were a number of factors that Tomac could have brought up, but he didn't. He just said "we got our butts kicked". I don't know how anyone could not respect that guy and respect how much he has won even while falling a little short in the 450sx championship. It's Musquin and Roczen who are failing more than Tomac and it's those two who are spitting out the excuses. No doubt it's why Tomac and Webb respect one another on and off the track.
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Crush
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5/11/2019 10:20pm
How is it so hard to differentiate speed vs consistency over a title period.

Why is there a saying about the fastest guy not always winning?
5/11/2019 11:59pm Edited Date/Time 5/12/2019 12:01am
Ranman68 wrote:
Someone who has a pic Herlings' ASS as his profile pic is on here bashing Tomac and calling anyone who defends Tomac a "Tomaniac". I bet...
Someone who has a pic Herlings' ASS as his profile pic is on here bashing Tomac and calling anyone who defends Tomac a "Tomaniac". I bet Cairoli gets his 2nd mxgp title in the last 3 seasons no matter how many times you refer to Herlings as "FMOTP". You of all people criticizing Tomac is as hypocritical and ridiculous as it can get.
there is a lot of butthurt in there , but for FYI its Coldenhoff ... you could call him the FMOTP , the way he smoked the world at RedBudd LaughingLaughing

But this topic was about Tomac and how happy he was , how come his fans seem to be opposite ?
biscuit11
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5/12/2019 5:42am
Ranman68 wrote:
Someone who has a pic Herlings' ASS as his profile pic is on here bashing Tomac and calling anyone who defends Tomac a "Tomaniac". I bet...
Someone who has a pic Herlings' ASS as his profile pic is on here bashing Tomac and calling anyone who defends Tomac a "Tomaniac". I bet Cairoli gets his 2nd mxgp title in the last 3 seasons no matter how many times you refer to Herlings as "FMOTP". You of all people criticizing Tomac is as hypocritical and ridiculous as it can get.
there is a lot of butthurt in there , but for FYI its Coldenhoff ... you could call him the FMOTP , the way he smoked...
there is a lot of butthurt in there , but for FYI its Coldenhoff ... you could call him the FMOTP , the way he smoked the world at RedBudd LaughingLaughing

But this topic was about Tomac and how happy he was , how come his fans seem to be opposite ?
As a fan id almost rather celebrate a ton of wins throughout the year and have all those highs rather than celebrate the championship for 1 week before its outdoor season and back to business. Nobody even talks about JA21 which kinda sucks the dude won the sx championship and then got hurt and not a peep about him on the broadcast all year. Winning championships is cool but i love looking back at the memorable rides ET3 has had in his sx career and i remember the disbelief after watching each of those races. As a fan the championships come more in handy for dick measuring contests on message boards. Obviously riders are measured on wins and championships but for fans wins are more fun than championships.
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kkawboy14
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5/12/2019 8:14am
Maybe I can help define Tomac:

1) he seems to like big tracks/tracks with longer straights/less turns. Doesn’t matter if those are outdoors or sx

2) he seems to get bored and lose focus (kinda like Pastrana used to). When it comes to littler/tighter tracks.
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