Tomac and that Kawasaki

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8/24/2020 1:42 PM

GuyB wrote:

I'll just leave this one here. Check the radiator louver on the left side.

Photo

I have a similar shot of Eli's bike, where it ...more

And that’s the bike that finished!

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8/24/2020 1:58 PM

inthebadboycorner wrote:

Doesent the factory Kawasaki have a full Hinson set up.
I think we could assume the only issue apart from the track condition ...more

I would think they would put springs in the clutch that are so stiff that it would alleviate the issues.

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8/24/2020 2:11 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/24/2020 2:34 PM

Natester551v wrote:

the series of KX450F failures are concerning, but the comments about Eli being super hard on clutches are true as well.
...more

inthebadboycorner wrote:

Doesent the factory Kawasaki have a full Hinson set up.
I think we could assume the only issue apart from the track condition ...more

Moto520 wrote:

I would think they would put springs in the clutch that are so stiff that it would alleviate the issues.

If you engage-and-disengage a clutch, it will heat up and induce wear at any spring tension. It is a friction device -- It's entire job is to convert kinetic energy into heat.

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8/24/2020 2:18 PM

Silas444 wrote:

Wayyyyy back a million years ago when I was young, Joel Robert famously said that he could blow up his bike on any given lap ...more

dboivin wrote:

if i wanted to send a message to my bike sponsor to supply me a bike that i can win on....taking it easy and getting 5ths is ...more

Kawasaki ARE paying him to win the championship- and he could've put himself in a much better position by nursing it home.

Once back in the pits, he'll say "I woudve won that if I had confidence in the bike lasting the duration- sort it out!"

Kawasaki would much prefer this message Id imagine, as opposed to yours..

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The above may be fact or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting. I am not sure, you have no chance.

8/24/2020 2:36 PM

GuyB wrote:

I'll just leave this one here. Check the radiator louver on the left side.

Photo

I have a similar shot of Eli's bike, where it ...more

Lineman25 wrote:

Does Tomac say screw it I have won 3 of these or does he have the motivation to go after it again.

Tomacs probably sayin put me on a real national track and watch what happens!! Starting this weekend!

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8/24/2020 4:18 PM

I think he's got a little Covid in the crankcase

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8/24/2020 4:47 PM

Anyone who has a Kawi knows how crazy hot they run. I off road mine sometimes, so I have a fan, a high pressure cap, and run water (with wetter) which is the BEST coolant...and the thing still scares me with how hot it runs. If I knew it was a mud race, I would put in thicker oil so that it still had decent viscosity when the motor overheats. I bet the oil just got too thin...and that was all she wrote.

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8/24/2020 8:50 PM

Gravel wrote:

After one DNF, a pro rider should be pissed off, quietly and clearly make his management understand that there is a problem ...more

SpriteRep419 wrote:

Oh give me a fucking break. You’re talking as if you know the guy personally. The bike quit both times and it’s not a good ...more

Pretty emotional reaction..

All I’m saying is that a professional should be focused on results, and finishing is always better than a DNF. Always. Should Kawasaki make a tougher bike? Absolutely! But last Sunday ET had a bike with a proven weakness in those conditions and he didn’t adjust his riding enough to finish the second moto after not finishing the first moto.

BTW, I’m a huge ET3 fan, just like I’m a long time fan of his dad.

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8/24/2020 8:56 PM

Silas444 wrote:

Wayyyyy back a million years ago when I was young, Joel Robert famously said that he could blow up his bike on any given lap ...more

Great story, Joel Robert is a legend!

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8/24/2020 9:08 PM

We have a mud race or two (or more..) most every year, right? Has anyone ever heard of a factory team soaking a practice track down and actually developing the equipment to work in the mud? Or do they all just accept the carnage and keep watching the equipment fail in completely predictable conditions?

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8/24/2020 9:15 PM

Gravel wrote:

We have a mud race or two (or more..) most every year, right? Has anyone ever heard of a factory team soaking a practice track ...more

It seems like testing time is pretty limited just to come up with a setup that can win the majority of rounds, let alone an outlier.

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8/25/2020 4:50 AM

Gravel wrote:

We have a mud race or two (or more..) most every year, right? Has anyone ever heard of a factory team soaking a practice track ...more

Mud creates so much damage as it is, never mind the electrical.

And no one wants to ride in it.

Basically, teams build the best they can while keeping mud in mind, but mostly how to “logically” waterproof everything if and when needed.

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Make sure you downvote!

8/25/2020 5:08 AM

Serious question has Eli been interviewed about the race since Saturday? If so what is he saying? Given his finishes at any of the mud races for the last few years I’d say Eli knows how to ride in the mud.

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8/25/2020 5:48 AM

StartedTooLate wrote:

Anyone who has a Kawi knows how crazy hot they run. I off road mine sometimes, so I have a fan, a high pressure cap, and run ...more

Back in 2009 the Kawi MXGP team was running these. Maybe Tomacs team have sponsor commitments & they cant use this but if i were crew chief id of threw everything i could on that kawi to get her across the line

Photo
Photo

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8/25/2020 5:59 AM

In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, 𝐪𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐞 𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐬𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐲 𝐌𝐗 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐬 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞𝐥𝐲 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐬𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐝 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐦𝐨𝐭𝐨𝐬 𝐭𝐨 𝟐𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬 + 𝟐 𝐥𝐚𝐩𝐬, 𝐢𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐚𝐝 𝐨𝐟 𝟑𝟎 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐮𝐭𝐞𝐬. Shortening the race due to weather has been done before and they canceled most all morning practice and even canceled the LCQ race.

20% of the bikes DNF’d and many “factory team” bikes didn’t finish.
450 - Tomac, Barcia, Anderson, Noren, Sexton, Savatgy, Masterpool, Bloss,
250 - Hampshire, Justin Cooper, Pierce Brown, Steinke, Root, Joey Crown, Hartranft,

Hindsight is always 20-20, but it stinks to have a mud race determine a championship.

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8/25/2020 6:11 AM

If I remember right, Tomac’s bike already has a small oil cooler.

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Make sure you downvote!

8/25/2020 6:28 AM

GuyB wrote:

I'll just leave this one here. Check the radiator louver on the left side.

Photo

I have a similar shot of Eli's bike, where it ...more

There should be a few of us here that remember the fender extensions that Acerbis, UFO and others made in the 80s. And, not just for the front, ones were made for some rear fenders. I think Dave Thorpe ran a front one on the forward section of his RC, nearly all the time.

Then, many of us could remember the rubber flaps that would be run on bikes in the 70s and earlier?

I kept an KX /KDX fender ( the w8dest at the time, and, in red) with fender extenders and rubber mud flaps for my XR/CR Hybrids ready, when I was facing a mud run. Those and the rear fender extension made things so much better, plus some thorough airbox and electrical prep.

Maybe such things might be of use, even now?

They are, of course, no guarantee, and, with today's fenders that are, essentially styling exercises, and much less of a 'Fender / Mudguard' - well, it would make for some pretty complicated extenders to be made.

Having said all that, I've still found mud in the Back of my radiators - from it bouncing / deflecting off my legs.........

Build , Preperation , a Rider using his Intelligence, and, a bit of Luck is what can get you through the conditions we encounter riding Motocross / Offroad.

Not getting through 2 x 30minute plus 2 lap Motos, from a Factory Team and Rider combination is a worry. On all those points I put forward in the previous sentence.


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8/25/2020 6:34 AM

GangGreen wrote:

In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, ...more

No way man we shouldn't dumb it down just because some bikes failed. It's part of racing and your user name tells me your opinion is biassed.

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8/25/2020 8:10 AM

GangGreen wrote:

In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, ...more

What wins on Sunday sells on monday! I like the fact they race harsh conditions. It forces the manufacturers to push for reliability which will help us customers in the long run.

After watching the amount of Kawasakis that didnt finish the last 2 des nations & throw tomacs 2 dnf’s in last week, id be very nervous to go buy a kawi 450. This bad press for kawi will hopefully lead to some engine mods which will help us customers in the future.

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8/25/2020 8:18 AM

GangGreen wrote:

In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, ...more

Mega Racing wrote:

What wins on Sunday sells on monday! I like the fact they race harsh conditions. It forces the manufacturers to push for ...more

Better stay away from the new honda then.

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8/25/2020 8:19 AM

GangGreen wrote:

In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, ...more

Mega Racing wrote:

What wins on Sunday sells on monday! I like the fact they race harsh conditions. It forces the manufacturers to push for ...more

Yea, cause vital.members ride the same bike, conditions, speed as tomac. Lol..

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8/25/2020 8:32 AM

GangGreen wrote:

In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, ...more

Mega Racing wrote:

What wins on Sunday sells on monday! I like the fact they race harsh conditions. It forces the manufacturers to push for ...more

450 - Tomac - Kawasaki , Barcia - Yamaha, Anderson - Husky , Noren - Suzuki, Sexton - Honda, Savatgy - Suzuki, Masterpool - Husky, Bloss - Husky

250 - Hampshire - Husky, Justin Cooper - Yamaha, Pierce Brown - KTM, Steinke - Kawasaki, Root - Husky, Joey Crown - Yamaha, Hartranft - KTM

It sure doesn't look like Kawasaki was the only manufacture with bikes dropping. Just based on the guys listed here, it was literally every brand. What wins on Sunday also seems to have had their fair share of failures. Even if it was only Kawasaki failing, why would a failing factory bike that is nothing like what you buy off the showroom scare you away? Do you ride as hard as Tomac?

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8/25/2020 8:32 AM

No idea if Eli was trying to save his bike. My question about his technique is why use the clutch ALL the time? He seems to have substituted the throttle with the clutch. Every race where some mud impacts the cooling his bike is very hot, or in this case, fails. A clutch is simply not designed for that. There was an interview with his mechanic, last year I think, and he laughed and said Eli’s clutch is replaced after every ride. And he was referring to SX, and very short qualifiers. Clearly he has figured out how to go VERY fast so maybe that will become a thing. But I have to think these DNFs are partially on him. At some point you have to work with the conditions and current level of design and engineering. I’d like to hear what he says.

They need a roll-off screen for the radiator or a small hydraulic actuator on the existing radiator guard to provide a very sharp/quick pop to knock the mud off.

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8/25/2020 8:46 AM

Air movement across the radiators can be managed differently.. duct cleaner air from above the gas tank with a fan pushing it to avoid mud clogging the air flow? It’s a trivial engineering problem to solve, but the moto world will probably just keep doing the same thing they’ve always done, and keep blowing bikes at every mud race..

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8/25/2020 9:02 AM

GangGreen wrote:

In conditions such as they were, knowing that four-stroke dirt bikes do NOT handle mud and excessive clutch heat very well, ...more

Especially if tomac walks their asses on the regular national tracks starting Saturday at iron man!!!

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8/25/2020 9:12 AM

Deano said he DNF'd too

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8/25/2020 9:33 AM

PRM31 wrote:

No idea if Eli was trying to save his bike. My question about his technique is why use the clutch ALL the time? He seems to ...more

It’s worked pretty well so far.

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8/25/2020 9:42 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/25/2020 9:43 AM

Gravel wrote:

Air movement across the radiators can be managed differently.. duct cleaner air from above the gas tank with a fan pushing it ...more

It's a non trivial, extremely difficult problem to solve removing pounds of sticky, adherent often drying and hard clay, from a moving motorcycle.

The rotating knobby tyres only do it if they are spinning past a certain speed; the louvres are natural traps.

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If the glass is half full it's twice as big as it needs to be.

8/25/2020 11:00 AM

Pierce lost a motor 2nd moto too.

a lot of bikes broke down, chalk it up to complete shit conditions and pounding the piss out of a dirt bike for 30 +2. things are going to go wrong.

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8/25/2020 11:50 AM

Gravel wrote:

Air movement across the radiators can be managed differently.. duct cleaner air from above the gas tank with a fan pushing it ...more

Momus wrote:

It's a non trivial, extremely difficult problem to solve removing pounds of sticky, adherent often drying and hard clay, from ...more

Spinning past a certain speed, you say:
Photo + Photo
Done.

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