Tomac and that Kawasaki

Timo_2824
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Wichita, KS US
8/24/2020 4:02am
I would have some stock engines laying around for mudders, no reason for any extra power when there isn't any traction.
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Bramlett321
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Texarkana, TX US
8/24/2020 5:02am
kpiper wrote:
It is a Karma thing. My equipment could kill me if it failed badly...so I prefer to treat it with respect. My bike the same. But...
It is a Karma thing. My equipment could kill me if it failed badly...so I prefer to treat it with respect. My bike the same.

But yes, Kawasaki should be embarrassed to say the least.
jemcee wrote:
It's not so much about the bike for me it's about the mechanic.. He works bloody hard for a lot less money and yes it sucks...
It's not so much about the bike for me it's about the mechanic.. He works bloody hard for a lot less money and yes it sucks for you that it broke but to just dump it for someone else to pick up isn't a good look.. Especially when there were people there to hold it up.. It seems he wanted to dump it to make a point and that's lame if you ask me
tek14 wrote:
Well nobody asked you. Its same if he dumped that piece of crap to ditch. If there is multimillion operation that cant build bike that lasts...
Well nobody asked you. Its same if he dumped that piece of crap to ditch. If there is multimillion operation that cant build bike that lasts 30min it not rider to blame.
“There’s 40 other vultures out there who manage to finish the race on their tires. You see Darrell Waltrip usin’ up his tires?” Harry Hogge !! Days of Thunder
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Park Boys
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8/24/2020 5:27am
Eli having issues made me think of his Front brake problems he had twice in 2017 which you could argue cost him the SX title and at GH in the outdoors. Then in 2018 he is winning Red Bud and the bike just gives up. Now this, I wonder if any of those issues where going through his mind on Saturday.
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kb228
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8/24/2020 6:00am
Heavyrider wrote:
I thought it looked like John Tomac who picked it up.
jemcee wrote:
Yeah I think it was.. Which again makes it worse! This is obviously easy for me to say but I'd like to think that I'd be...
Yeah I think it was.. Which again makes it worse!
This is obviously easy for me to say but I'd like to think that I'd be of attitude that I'm borrowing this bike, My mechanic gave it to me to race and I'll be the one to give it back to him.. I remember when Dunge boiled fuel at Freestone and he walked it all the way back to the pits (I think haha)..
Also not saying I expected Tomac to go quite that far but to actually push it over wasn't cool.. Unless we're all missing something and it's a Wyatt Seals situation haha
gregyou wrote:
I’d throw the thing off a cliff
If i were in tomacs shoes id say pushing it over was mild. Not finishing either moto might be the blow to his title hopes. Theres not a lot of time left.
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3

The Shop

Silas444
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8/24/2020 6:23am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2020 8:39am
Wayyyyy back a million years ago when I was young, Joel Robert famously said that he could blow up his bike on any given lap should he desire to. But of course, he didn't. To him, winning against Torsten Hallman and NOT seizing his engine and/or breaking his frame in half was almost an art form.

I knew a really fast kid who was sponsored (free bikes/gear, not full-on pro), and he kept blowing up his bike and bragging about it in the pits afterward. I took him aside and told him the Joel Robert story, and then I simply asked him if he thought his bike sponsor was glad he was making their bike look unreliable. To my knowledge, he never blew a motor at a race again.

Eli's at a very, VERY, different level, of course, but making your bike look like an unreliable heap is bad form regardless, in my very humble opinion. You dance with your date and you treat her like she's special, even if she keeps stepping on your toes. Simple as that.
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BikePilot
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8/24/2020 6:52am
I think a rider should be able to go flat out and ride their best. Bikes are good, or can be, and a rider should not have to nurse it around the track. I’ve raced enough enduros and desert races to have some sense of what’s involved there. Different certainly, but keeping a bike running in a spot of mud for 45 minutes isn’t that hard. I’ve flogged bikes for 500+ mile desert races and 4hr hare scrambles without pit support other than fuel and haven’t DNFd.
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8/24/2020 6:55am
I wasn’t even going to compare Zach bell and Blayne Thompson’s riding to Tomac, even though they were testing parts for factory kawi and race 1.5+ hours. I don’t think anything will compare to an aggressive rider like Tomac racing in mud like that for 35ish minutes
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Robgvx
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8/24/2020 7:00am
To finish first, first you must finish.
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Ray_MXS
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8/24/2020 7:17am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2020 7:17am
Its a rider error.
One moto, sure, the team/mechanic could have made some error but two motos in a row? No way. Especially when AC finished both motos without much issue.

As an example, think about these guys having to make their bikes last 3 hours in similar mud every year at the Gotland Grand National:





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FLmxer
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8/24/2020 7:18am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2020 7:19am
It might have been mentioned previously but I always wondered if a throw away round would be a good idea. Maybe not in a shorter season but it would definitely keep the points interesting and with bike issues, flu's and personal issues that pop up in life it would keep all the players in the game through a season. Maybe even for example Roczen would of been able to rest through a week and possibly recharge a little and continue on. Maybe it is a bad idea too because racing takes a combination of factors to win and a dnf is part of it.
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Momus
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8/24/2020 7:38am
BikePilot wrote:
I think a rider should be able to go flat out and ride their best. Bikes are good, or can be, and a rider should not...
I think a rider should be able to go flat out and ride their best. Bikes are good, or can be, and a rider should not have to nurse it around the track. I’ve raced enough enduros and desert races to have some sense of what’s involved there. Different certainly, but keeping a bike running in a spot of mud for 45 minutes isn’t that hard. I’ve flogged bikes for 500+ mile desert races and 4hr hare scrambles without pit support other than fuel and haven’t DNFd.
You should offer your services to Kawasaki, immediately, as team manager and #1 rider.
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BikePilot
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8/24/2020 8:03am
BikePilot wrote:
I think a rider should be able to go flat out and ride their best. Bikes are good, or can be, and a rider should not...
I think a rider should be able to go flat out and ride their best. Bikes are good, or can be, and a rider should not have to nurse it around the track. I’ve raced enough enduros and desert races to have some sense of what’s involved there. Different certainly, but keeping a bike running in a spot of mud for 45 minutes isn’t that hard. I’ve flogged bikes for 500+ mile desert races and 4hr hare scrambles without pit support other than fuel and haven’t DNFd.
Momus wrote:
You should offer your services to Kawasaki, immediately, as team manager and #1 rider.
They can't afford me Wink
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O&GDriller
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8/24/2020 8:56am
I offer an optimistic observation: at least his gear didn't fail. His pants stayed up despite the load they were carrying...
RichieW13
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8/24/2020 9:47am
kpiper wrote:
History says four in a row is nearly impossible. No one but RC4 has ever done it. But that bike should have been able to finish...
History says four in a row is nearly impossible. No one but RC4 has ever done it.

But that bike should have been able to finish one moto. It was smoking after just ten minutes in the 2nd moto . That is nuts.

You could tell he started backing off, trying to save the bike when he got up to 6th or 7th. That must be a lousy feeling too. So you have a bike you can't even ride hard?

I was hoping to see him charge like a madman the whole moto!
History also says you can't win your first supercross championship at age 27, until Tomac did it.

History says you can't win an outdoor championship at age 31, but Osborne is off to a great start.

History says a lot of things can't happen - until they do. Using championships in this sport as a measuring stick for what can or can't happen is not the greatest predictor. This sport is less than 50 years old, and only one guy can win a championship each year, so there just aren't a lot of data points to evaluate.
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DJS721
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BF, OH US
8/24/2020 9:54am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2020 9:55am
Motofinne wrote:
I liked what Matthes said in the race review podcast. Some of this is on Eli, he has to be content with a "mediocre" day and...
I liked what Matthes said in the race review podcast. Some of this is on Eli, he has to be content with a "mediocre" day and just ride more conservative if the risk is that he DNFs both motos.

A good example is Ferrandis. He has also had clutch issues in mudders in the past, but now he saw the bigger picture and just scored solid points whilst riding under his real 100% speed.
Agree - a top racer should understand the conditions and adjust his approach to get the most out the day. Its about scoring points

Riding full Batman in that kind of mud and expecting the same out of the bike as a dry day....that's not realistic. Back it down a notch and make it to the finish line

If it turns out it was something out of Kawasaki's and Eli's control (took in water in the airbox, broken electrical connection, etc), well that just racing luck and it happens to anyone
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kpiper
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8/24/2020 10:13am
Why does everyone assume Eli was not backing it down to save the bike. I sure didn't see any beast mode going on.
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3
8/24/2020 10:23am
kpiper wrote:
Why does everyone assume Eli was not backing it down to save the bike. I sure didn't see any beast mode going on.
This is my thinking as well. It’s not like this was the guys first mud race. We’ve had a number of mud races over the past few years and finishing hasn’t been much of an issue, in fact I would say Tomac has proven himself to be one of the better mud riders in the field in my opinion.
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#434
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DE
8/24/2020 11:19am
kpiper wrote:
History says four in a row is nearly impossible. No one but RC4 has ever done it. But that bike should have been able to finish...
History says four in a row is nearly impossible. No one but RC4 has ever done it.

But that bike should have been able to finish one moto. It was smoking after just ten minutes in the 2nd moto . That is nuts.

You could tell he started backing off, trying to save the bike when he got up to 6th or 7th. That must be a lousy feeling too. So you have a bike you can't even ride hard?

I was hoping to see him charge like a madman the whole moto!
RichieW13 wrote:
History also says you can't win your first supercross championship at age 27, until Tomac did it. History says you can't win an outdoor championship at...
History also says you can't win your first supercross championship at age 27, until Tomac did it.

History says you can't win an outdoor championship at age 31, but Osborne is off to a great start.

History says a lot of things can't happen - until they do. Using championships in this sport as a measuring stick for what can or can't happen is not the greatest predictor. This sport is less than 50 years old, and only one guy can win a championship each year, so there just aren't a lot of data points to evaluate.
History also says that guys who are hard on equipment have more DNFs...live by the sword, die by the sword
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EngIceDave
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Merritt Island, FL US
8/24/2020 11:29am Edited Date/Time 8/24/2020 11:31am
I didn’t read all the pages, I know better....

Part of being a professional racer is not just going fast, but getting the equipment to the finish line.

You take the 2nd, 5th or 15th if that’s what it’ll takes to not blow it up, and you need to be in tune enough with your bikes to know where that is.

There was a story years ago, think it was Marty Smith, racing a CR125, and said every time down this straight, it felt like it was going to blow up, so every lap He’d reach down and pull the choke to richen the fuel and keep it from blowing up. (You kids may not know what a choke is)

Point is, a rider should be able to feel the bike, can hear when it’s saying “enough,” and be able to nurse it home when you have to.

He may have been nursing it when he blew it up, who knows
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lostboy819
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8/24/2020 11:59am
BikePilot wrote:
I think a rider should be able to go flat out and ride their best. Bikes are good, or can be, and a rider should not...
I think a rider should be able to go flat out and ride their best. Bikes are good, or can be, and a rider should not have to nurse it around the track. I’ve raced enough enduros and desert races to have some sense of what’s involved there. Different certainly, but keeping a bike running in a spot of mud for 45 minutes isn’t that hard. I’ve flogged bikes for 500+ mile desert races and 4hr hare scrambles without pit support other than fuel and haven’t DNFd.
Momus wrote:
You should offer your services to Kawasaki, immediately, as team manager and #1 rider.
BikePilot wrote:
They can't afford me Wink
Yep, no getting around the old minimun wage. Wink
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IWreckALot
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8/24/2020 12:03pm
Ray_MXS wrote:
Its a rider error. One moto, sure, the team/mechanic could have made some error but two motos in a row? No way. Especially when AC finished...
Its a rider error.
One moto, sure, the team/mechanic could have made some error but two motos in a row? No way. Especially when AC finished both motos without much issue.

As an example, think about these guys having to make their bikes last 3 hours in similar mud every year at the Gotland Grand National:





Not only no, but hell no. Haha. I feel their misery.
GuyB
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8/24/2020 12:08pm
I'll just leave this one here. Check the radiator louver on the left side.



I have a similar shot of Eli's bike, where it looks like the fender is close enough to the louvers that it's troweling mud into them.
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8/24/2020 12:13pm
BikePilot wrote:
I think a rider should be able to go flat out and ride their best. Bikes are good, or can be, and a rider should not...
I think a rider should be able to go flat out and ride their best. Bikes are good, or can be, and a rider should not have to nurse it around the track. I’ve raced enough enduros and desert races to have some sense of what’s involved there. Different certainly, but keeping a bike running in a spot of mud for 45 minutes isn’t that hard. I’ve flogged bikes for 500+ mile desert races and 4hr hare scrambles without pit support other than fuel and haven’t DNFd.
Overall winner Jeremy Martin's pit board: "SAVE THE BIKE"
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avidchimp
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8/24/2020 12:15pm
GuyB wrote:
I'll just leave this one here. Check the radiator louver on the left side. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/08/24/445502/s1200_082220lorettas2racing2281.jpg[/img] I have a similar shot of Eli's bike, where it looks...
I'll just leave this one here. Check the radiator louver on the left side.



I have a similar shot of Eli's bike, where it looks like the fender is close enough to the louvers that it's troweling mud into them.
DAMN!!!!
dboivin
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8/24/2020 12:16pm
Silas444 wrote:
Wayyyyy back a million years ago when I was young, Joel Robert famously said that he could blow up his bike on any given lap should...
Wayyyyy back a million years ago when I was young, Joel Robert famously said that he could blow up his bike on any given lap should he desire to. But of course, he didn't. To him, winning against Torsten Hallman and NOT seizing his engine and/or breaking his frame in half was almost an art form.

I knew a really fast kid who was sponsored (free bikes/gear, not full-on pro), and he kept blowing up his bike and bragging about it in the pits afterward. I took him aside and told him the Joel Robert story, and then I simply asked him if he thought his bike sponsor was glad he was making their bike look unreliable. To my knowledge, he never blew a motor at a race again.

Eli's at a very, VERY, different level, of course, but making your bike look like an unreliable heap is bad form regardless, in my very humble opinion. You dance with your date and you treat her like she's special, even if she keeps stepping on your toes. Simple as that.
if i wanted to send a message to my bike sponsor to supply me a bike that i can win on....taking it easy and getting 5ths is not gonna send that message. Kawasaki is not paying him big dollars to nurse their bike to the finish line...c'mon.


in this day and age, eli should not be babying a bike to get to the finish...its 2020...this is 100% on bikes/parts. something failed and shouldn't have. Most Enduros create much worse conditions than a mudder at loretta's...that bike should of lasted. Call it what it is....a mechanical failure.
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Lineman25
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8/24/2020 12:18pm
GuyB wrote:
I'll just leave this one here. Check the radiator louver on the left side. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/08/24/445502/s1200_082220lorettas2racing2281.jpg[/img] I have a similar shot of Eli's bike, where it looks...
I'll just leave this one here. Check the radiator louver on the left side.



I have a similar shot of Eli's bike, where it looks like the fender is close enough to the louvers that it's troweling mud into them.
Does Tomac say screw it I have won 3 of these or does he have the motivation to go after it again.
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8/24/2020 12:26pm
FLmxer wrote:
It might have been mentioned previously but I always wondered if a throw away round would be a good idea. Maybe not in a shorter season...
It might have been mentioned previously but I always wondered if a throw away round would be a good idea. Maybe not in a shorter season but it would definitely keep the points interesting and with bike issues, flu's and personal issues that pop up in life it would keep all the players in the game through a season. Maybe even for example Roczen would of been able to rest through a week and possibly recharge a little and continue on. Maybe it is a bad idea too because racing takes a combination of factors to win and a dnf is part of it.
I don't like the idea of a throw away because the point of racing an entire series is to see who comes away with the most points. Crashes, DNF, bad rides, etc are all part of it. I'm fine with it in a one-off race, or something like the MXoN, but not a championship that is decided over an entire series.
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8/24/2020 12:32pm
the series of KX450F failures are concerning, but the comments about Eli being super hard on clutches are true as well. Williamson said that his engine...
the series of KX450F failures are concerning, but the comments about Eli being super hard on clutches are true as well.
Williamson said that his engine oil would be pitch black after a 6 lap heat race.

Interesting that Reed recently commented about how durable the KTM clutch was, and he is also notoriously hard on clutches. I can't imagine how many they went through each week when he was Factory Yamaha...
Doesent the factory Kawasaki have a full Hinson set up.
I think we could assume the only issue apart from the track condition is the riders use of the clutch.
Maybe the rider has to be more mindful of the issue.
Gworm
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8/24/2020 1:42pm
GuyB wrote:
I'll just leave this one here. Check the radiator louver on the left side. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/08/24/445502/s1200_082220lorettas2racing2281.jpg[/img] I have a similar shot of Eli's bike, where it looks...
I'll just leave this one here. Check the radiator louver on the left side.



I have a similar shot of Eli's bike, where it looks like the fender is close enough to the louvers that it's troweling mud into them.
And that’s the bike that finished!
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