Tomac and that Kawasaki

Zycki11
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Zycki11 8/23/2020 11:32am
8/23/2020 11:32am
CPR wrote:
Is kawi still running oil coolers on their bikes? Do both Tomac and AC run one? I haven’t noticed them this year, will have to look...
Is kawi still running oil coolers on their bikes? Do both Tomac and AC run one? I haven’t noticed them this year, will have to look...
Always thought it interesting that they ran coolers and no one else does. They obviously have a heat issue.
I think they do, at least PC does.
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kpiper
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kpiper 8/23/2020 11:33am
8/23/2020 11:33am
kpiper wrote:
Yes, I have four 'outdoor' titles actually. Not AMA Pro motocross but still respectable titles. But having titles or not has nothing to do with respecting...
Yes, I have four 'outdoor' titles actually. Not AMA Pro motocross but still respectable titles.

But having titles or not has nothing to do with respecting your bike and the people who help you.
Donkey Kong wrote:
4 Time Chicken Links Raceway champ right here
Nice!
jorgechavez 8/23/2020 11:34am
8/23/2020 11:34am Edited Date/Time 8/23/2020 11:35am
SpriteRep419 wrote:
Oh give me a fucking break. You’re talking as if you know the guy personally. The bike quit both times and it’s not a good look...
Oh give me a fucking break. You’re talking as if you know the guy personally. The bike quit both times and it’s not a good look but understandable given the conditions. Feel like people here are pinning this on Eli just to try to blame Eli.

Jett Lawrence’s bike quit, and I don’t see anyone blaming him for it. It is what it is, we don’t have to play childish blame games just cuz we don’t like the riders
Agreed 100%. Barcia is notoriously hard on bikes but won the first moto and DNF'd the second. I don't see anyone trying to pin the blame on him for his DNF. Shit happens in those conditions, look at Osborne almost not being able to race because of a freak mechanical before they ever started practice.
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kpiper
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kpiper 8/23/2020 11:37am
8/23/2020 11:37am
SpriteRep419 wrote:
Oh give me a fucking break. You’re talking as if you know the guy personally. The bike quit both times and it’s not a good look...
Oh give me a fucking break. You’re talking as if you know the guy personally. The bike quit both times and it’s not a good look but understandable given the conditions. Feel like people here are pinning this on Eli just to try to blame Eli.

Jett Lawrence’s bike quit, and I don’t see anyone blaming him for it. It is what it is, we don’t have to play childish blame games just cuz we don’t like the riders
jorgechavez wrote:
Agreed 100%. Barcia is notoriously hard on bikes but won the first moto and DNF'd the second. I don't see anyone trying to pin the blame...
Agreed 100%. Barcia is notoriously hard on bikes but won the first moto and DNF'd the second. I don't see anyone trying to pin the blame on him for his DNF. Shit happens in those conditions, look at Osborne almost not being able to race because of a freak mechanical before they ever started practice.
I don't blame Eli at all for the DNF's. It was clear to me in both motos he had backed it down trying to save the bike.

But I feel they should be able to give him a bike he can ride to his fullest potential. This is on Kawi not Eli. It is not 1976 with engine technology.
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Lineman25
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Lineman25 8/23/2020 11:38am
8/23/2020 11:38am
Brent wrote:
I’m going to point it out again - Tomac’s bike was running after he stopped in the first Moto, but before he threw the bike down...
I’m going to point it out again - Tomac’s bike was running after he stopped in the first Moto, but before he threw the bike down. check the video.

Why would a four stoke motor run but not be able to move the bike forward? Most of you already know the answer.
That thing was running like ass. Spitting and sputtering when he went by the camera. Check the video. What causes a 4 stroke to sound like that?
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yz133rider
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yz133rider 8/23/2020 12:18pm
8/23/2020 12:18pm
Brent wrote:
I’m going to point it out again - Tomac’s bike was running after he stopped in the first Moto, but before he threw the bike down...
I’m going to point it out again - Tomac’s bike was running after he stopped in the first Moto, but before he threw the bike down. check the video.

Why would a four stoke motor run but not be able to move the bike forward? Most of you already know the answer.
Lineman25 wrote:
That thing was running like ass. Spitting and sputtering when he went by the camera. Check the video. What causes a 4 stroke to sound like...
That thing was running like ass. Spitting and sputtering when he went by the camera. Check the video. What causes a 4 stroke to sound like that?
And flame out the exhaust as well.
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kpiper
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kpiper 8/23/2020 12:27pm
8/23/2020 12:27pm
Just think how interesting that second moto could have been if Eli could have gone full bore the whole race? He was on a tear. Would have been fun to see.

The engine was smoking 10 minutes into the race Sad
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Johnny Lock 8/23/2020 1:12pm
8/23/2020 1:12pm
Gas Axe wrote:
It's horrendous for Kawi. From a professional motorsport perspective, it's just not good enough. It's not some supped up dealership special. Do you think this would...
It's horrendous for Kawi. From a professional motorsport perspective, it's just not good enough. It's not some supped up dealership special.
Do you think this would happen to Mercedes in F1 when the weather shits itself? Or any other factory MotoGp team when the conditions are less than perfect?



I’m sure there’s a lot of phone calls, texts, emails and possibly finger pointing going on at that camp right now. They will figure it out and get better.
DonM
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DonM 8/23/2020 1:19pm
8/23/2020 1:19pm
SpriteRep419 wrote:
Oh give me a fucking break. You’re talking as if you know the guy personally. The bike quit both times and it’s not a good look...
Oh give me a fucking break. You’re talking as if you know the guy personally. The bike quit both times and it’s not a good look but understandable given the conditions. Feel like people here are pinning this on Eli just to try to blame Eli.

Jett Lawrence’s bike quit, and I don’t see anyone blaming him for it. It is what it is, we don’t have to play childish blame games just cuz we don’t like the riders
jorgechavez wrote:
Agreed 100%. Barcia is notoriously hard on bikes but won the first moto and DNF'd the second. I don't see anyone trying to pin the blame...
Agreed 100%. Barcia is notoriously hard on bikes but won the first moto and DNF'd the second. I don't see anyone trying to pin the blame on him for his DNF. Shit happens in those conditions, look at Osborne almost not being able to race because of a freak mechanical before they ever started practice.
kpiper wrote:
I don't blame Eli at all for the DNF's. It was clear to me in both motos he had backed it down trying to save the...
I don't blame Eli at all for the DNF's. It was clear to me in both motos he had backed it down trying to save the bike.

But I feel they should be able to give him a bike he can ride to his fullest potential. This is on Kawi not Eli. It is not 1976 with engine technology.
So you think he backed it down and it wasn't the bike (clutch) starting to fail for a few laps....He's hard on clutches and cooked it in the first moto...2nd Moto bike died and wouldn't restart....first one is on him second one not sure...
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devotid
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devotid 8/23/2020 1:36pm
8/23/2020 1:36pm
Adams bike seemed fine...
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Zycki11
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Zycki11 8/23/2020 2:07pm
8/23/2020 2:07pm
Lineman25 wrote:
That thing was running like ass. Spitting and sputtering when he went by the camera. Check the video. What causes a 4 stroke to sound like...
That thing was running like ass. Spitting and sputtering when he went by the camera. Check the video. What causes a 4 stroke to sound like that?
Water on electrics
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Lineman25
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Lineman25 8/23/2020 2:21pm
8/23/2020 2:21pm
jorgechavez wrote:
Agreed 100%. Barcia is notoriously hard on bikes but won the first moto and DNF'd the second. I don't see anyone trying to pin the blame...
Agreed 100%. Barcia is notoriously hard on bikes but won the first moto and DNF'd the second. I don't see anyone trying to pin the blame on him for his DNF. Shit happens in those conditions, look at Osborne almost not being able to race because of a freak mechanical before they ever started practice.
kpiper wrote:
I don't blame Eli at all for the DNF's. It was clear to me in both motos he had backed it down trying to save the...
I don't blame Eli at all for the DNF's. It was clear to me in both motos he had backed it down trying to save the bike.

But I feel they should be able to give him a bike he can ride to his fullest potential. This is on Kawi not Eli. It is not 1976 with engine technology.
DonM wrote:
So you think he backed it down and it wasn't the bike (clutch) starting to fail for a few laps....He's hard on clutches and cooked it...
So you think he backed it down and it wasn't the bike (clutch) starting to fail for a few laps....He's hard on clutches and cooked it in the first moto...2nd Moto bike died and wouldn't restart....first one is on him second one not sure...
1st Moto sounded like an electrical issue. The way the bike was sputtering.
the kid 857
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the kid 857 8/23/2020 4:50pm
8/23/2020 4:50pm
The bike was running, Clutch went out. Eli is notorious clutch abuser on dry conditions. Wet= BYE BYE.
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cable
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cable 8/23/2020 5:40pm
8/23/2020 5:40pm
SpriteRep419 wrote:
Oh give me a fucking break. You’re talking as if you know the guy personally. The bike quit both times and it’s not a good look...
Oh give me a fucking break. You’re talking as if you know the guy personally. The bike quit both times and it’s not a good look but understandable given the conditions. Feel like people here are pinning this on Eli just to try to blame Eli.

Jett Lawrence’s bike quit, and I don’t see anyone blaming him for it. It is what it is, we don’t have to play childish blame games just cuz we don’t like the riders
jorgechavez wrote:
Agreed 100%. Barcia is notoriously hard on bikes but won the first moto and DNF'd the second. I don't see anyone trying to pin the blame...
Agreed 100%. Barcia is notoriously hard on bikes but won the first moto and DNF'd the second. I don't see anyone trying to pin the blame on him for his DNF. Shit happens in those conditions, look at Osborne almost not being able to race because of a freak mechanical before they ever started practice.
kpiper wrote:
I don't blame Eli at all for the DNF's. It was clear to me in both motos he had backed it down trying to save the...
I don't blame Eli at all for the DNF's. It was clear to me in both motos he had backed it down trying to save the bike.

But I feel they should be able to give him a bike he can ride to his fullest potential. This is on Kawi not Eli. It is not 1976 with engine technology.
my 2007crf 450 has the same clutch basket and plates as my 1991 cr500. Have they changed much since 2007? Maybe he has an auto clutch and its failing?
devotid
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devotid 8/23/2020 6:02pm
8/23/2020 6:02pm Edited Date/Time 8/23/2020 6:04pm
jorgechavez wrote:
Agreed 100%. Barcia is notoriously hard on bikes but won the first moto and DNF'd the second. I don't see anyone trying to pin the blame...
Agreed 100%. Barcia is notoriously hard on bikes but won the first moto and DNF'd the second. I don't see anyone trying to pin the blame on him for his DNF. Shit happens in those conditions, look at Osborne almost not being able to race because of a freak mechanical before they ever started practice.
kpiper wrote:
I don't blame Eli at all for the DNF's. It was clear to me in both motos he had backed it down trying to save the...
I don't blame Eli at all for the DNF's. It was clear to me in both motos he had backed it down trying to save the bike.

But I feel they should be able to give him a bike he can ride to his fullest potential. This is on Kawi not Eli. It is not 1976 with engine technology.
cable wrote:
my 2007crf 450 has the same clutch basket and plates as my 1991 cr500. Have they changed much since 2007? Maybe he has an auto clutch...
my 2007crf 450 has the same clutch basket and plates as my 1991 cr500. Have they changed much since 2007? Maybe he has an auto clutch and its failing?
Or maybe he is so hungry to go fast and win that he rings the bikes neck the ENTIRE TIME (Which I love to watch). Even when stuff is made of unobtainium and designed to the moon.... there is still going to be a rider that finds a way to ask for more. Thats Eli. In my opinion, he is his own worst enemy.

After a while when do we stop blaming the tool and start to look at the guy wearing it out?

Again.... Adams bike made the journey. Im sure they are similar in build quality.

EDIT: added;My point is you could put ANY COLOR bike under this guy and the problems would be similar.
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GuyB
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GuyB 8/23/2020 6:04pm
8/23/2020 6:04pm
Johnny Lock wrote:
I’m sure there’s a lot of phone calls, texts, emails and possibly finger pointing going on at that camp right now. They will figure it out...
I’m sure there’s a lot of phone calls, texts, emails and possibly finger pointing going on at that camp right now. They will figure it out and get better.
You must be an insider. Wink
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jorgechavez 8/23/2020 6:08pm
8/23/2020 6:08pm Edited Date/Time 8/23/2020 6:19pm
devotid wrote:
Or maybe he is so hungry to go fast and win that he rings the bikes neck the ENTIRE TIME (Which I love to watch). Even...
Or maybe he is so hungry to go fast and win that he rings the bikes neck the ENTIRE TIME (Which I love to watch). Even when stuff is made of unobtainium and designed to the moon.... there is still going to be a rider that finds a way to ask for more. Thats Eli. In my opinion, he is his own worst enemy.

After a while when do we stop blaming the tool and start to look at the guy wearing it out?

Again.... Adams bike made the journey. Im sure they are similar in build quality.

EDIT: added;My point is you could put ANY COLOR bike under this guy and the problems would be similar.
I can remember more than one occasion last year where Savatgy had a mechanical while Tomac continued on without issue. I don’t seem to remember anyone trying to claim the mechanicals were on Savatgy in those cases. Maybe they were testing parts in Savatgy’s case? Who knows. I also think it’s foolish to assume that AC and Tomac run identical engine packages.
devotid
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devotid 8/23/2020 6:15pm
8/23/2020 6:15pm
devotid wrote:
Or maybe he is so hungry to go fast and win that he rings the bikes neck the ENTIRE TIME (Which I love to watch). Even...
Or maybe he is so hungry to go fast and win that he rings the bikes neck the ENTIRE TIME (Which I love to watch). Even when stuff is made of unobtainium and designed to the moon.... there is still going to be a rider that finds a way to ask for more. Thats Eli. In my opinion, he is his own worst enemy.

After a while when do we stop blaming the tool and start to look at the guy wearing it out?

Again.... Adams bike made the journey. Im sure they are similar in build quality.

EDIT: added;My point is you could put ANY COLOR bike under this guy and the problems would be similar.
jorgechavez wrote:
I can remember more than one occasion last year where Savatgy had a mechanical while Tomac continued on without issue. I don’t seem to remember anyone...
I can remember more than one occasion last year where Savatgy had a mechanical while Tomac continued on without issue. I don’t seem to remember anyone trying to claim the mechanicals were on Savatgy in those cases. Maybe they were testing parts in Savatgy’s case? Who knows. I also think it’s foolish to assume that AC and Tomac run identical engine packages.
I agree it would be foolish to assume that. That's why I said "Im sure they are similar in build quality."

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280driver
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280driver 8/23/2020 6:42pm
8/23/2020 6:42pm
devotid wrote:
Or maybe he is so hungry to go fast and win that he rings the bikes neck the ENTIRE TIME (Which I love to watch). Even...
Or maybe he is so hungry to go fast and win that he rings the bikes neck the ENTIRE TIME (Which I love to watch). Even when stuff is made of unobtainium and designed to the moon.... there is still going to be a rider that finds a way to ask for more. Thats Eli. In my opinion, he is his own worst enemy.

After a while when do we stop blaming the tool and start to look at the guy wearing it out?

Again.... Adams bike made the journey. Im sure they are similar in build quality.

EDIT: added;My point is you could put ANY COLOR bike under this guy and the problems would be similar.
jorgechavez wrote:
I can remember more than one occasion last year where Savatgy had a mechanical while Tomac continued on without issue. I don’t seem to remember anyone...
I can remember more than one occasion last year where Savatgy had a mechanical while Tomac continued on without issue. I don’t seem to remember anyone trying to claim the mechanicals were on Savatgy in those cases. Maybe they were testing parts in Savatgy’s case? Who knows. I also think it’s foolish to assume that AC and Tomac run identical engine packages.
That’s not accurate. Savage’s bike issues where caused by damage done when he crashed,
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Brent
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Brent 8/23/2020 7:08pm
8/23/2020 7:08pm
one thing is for sure - Everyone at Kawasaki's race team is working overtime this week to make sure it doesn't happen again this weekend - I hear rain is in the forecast...

Maybe they take Eli's left side lever off and use a Rekluse auto clutch this weekWoohoo
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Wiff3 8/23/2020 7:12pm
8/23/2020 7:12pm
So Elli spots the top couple guys a few points early in the season because he rides the guts out of a bike every time he gets on it. They can barely keep his bike in one piece on a normal day. Apparently they struggle to get it to the finish line in adverse conditions. Not everyone rides a bike past it's potential. Everyone loves "Beast mode" when they get to watch him charge to mind boggling rides, but everyone bitches when it doesn't allow him to get a bad start and finish when the track sucks like it did yesterday.

All I know is, it is going to be a lot of fun to watch him ride the rest of the season, being this far down in points.

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KurtJ99
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KurtJ99 8/23/2020 7:57pm
8/23/2020 7:57pm
It’s so obvious to me. Last year Savatgy’s bike was unreliable because the number 1 guy Eli had the best equipment. Now Adam is #1 guy and and Eli gets the roached parts. /sarcasm
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Motofinne
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Motofinne 8/23/2020 10:25pm
8/23/2020 10:25pm
I liked what Matthes said in the race review podcast. Some of this is on Eli, he has to be content with a "mediocre" day and just ride more conservative if the risk is that he DNFs both motos.

A good example is Ferrandis. He has also had clutch issues in mudders in the past, but now he saw the bigger picture and just scored solid points whilst riding under his real 100% speed.
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Johnny Lock 8/23/2020 11:40pm
8/23/2020 11:40pm
Johnny Lock wrote:
I’m sure there’s a lot of phone calls, texts, emails and possibly finger pointing going on at that camp right now. They will figure it out...
I’m sure there’s a lot of phone calls, texts, emails and possibly finger pointing going on at that camp right now. They will figure it out and get better.
GuyB wrote:
You must be an insider. Wink

GuyB
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GuyB 8/23/2020 11:42pm
8/23/2020 11:42pm
Motofinne wrote:
I liked what Matthes said in the race review podcast. Some of this is on Eli, he has to be content with a "mediocre" day and...
I liked what Matthes said in the race review podcast. Some of this is on Eli, he has to be content with a "mediocre" day and just ride more conservative if the risk is that he DNFs both motos.

A good example is Ferrandis. He has also had clutch issues in mudders in the past, but now he saw the bigger picture and just scored solid points whilst riding under his real 100% speed.
You could say the same for Jeremy Martin. His bike was smoking/steaming a lot during moto two, and he nursed it in for an overall.
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Motofinne
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Motofinne 8/23/2020 11:49pm
8/23/2020 11:49pm
Motofinne wrote:
I liked what Matthes said in the race review podcast. Some of this is on Eli, he has to be content with a "mediocre" day and...
I liked what Matthes said in the race review podcast. Some of this is on Eli, he has to be content with a "mediocre" day and just ride more conservative if the risk is that he DNFs both motos.

A good example is Ferrandis. He has also had clutch issues in mudders in the past, but now he saw the bigger picture and just scored solid points whilst riding under his real 100% speed.
GuyB wrote:
You could say the same for Jeremy Martin. His bike was smoking/steaming a lot during moto two, and he nursed it in for an overall.
Exactly!
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Thisusernameisavailable 8/24/2020 12:15am
8/24/2020 12:15am
In an ideal world the team would provide a bike that the rider can ‘beast’ to his full potential 100% the time without failure.

But we don’t live in an ideal world.

A rider Expecting a bike to put up with maximum abuse in all conditions and always finish is about as realistic and reasonable as a team expecting a rider to go faster, faster and faster without the risk of a crash- it’s unreasonable to expect that.

Winning a Pro championship is a combination of factors. It is reasonable for a team to ask a rider to nurse it home for good points if they think they have a chance of a blow up. As perfectly demonstrated by Osborne & JMart.

Some of this is on Eli.
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Thisusernameisavailable 8/24/2020 12:20am
8/24/2020 12:20am
Btw, vital will spend days arguing about this, but team Kawi will plug in the laptop, overlay Adam’s and Eli’s data from gears, rpm, clutch, look at what part failed and they’ll know exactly whether it was Eli or the team to blame.

*Assuming Adams & Eli’s motors are the same.
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kiwifan
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kiwifan 8/24/2020 1:14am
8/24/2020 1:14am
This happened back in the 2 stroke days too, a lot of bikes still overheated and failed...so this isnt just a 4 stroke thing
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CPR
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CPR 8/24/2020 2:14am
8/24/2020 2:14am
You know when you modify engines for superior performance with fine tolerances and greater loads, then race them, sooner or later you find limits and occasionally parts fail. Throw in mud races and that occasionally becomes more common.
It’s called racing, and it’s awesome. If it were easy we wouldn’t need factory involvement, performance shops or elite mechanics and riders.
Bikes fail, parts fail, riders fail, this is not a Kawi thing, but it certainly made the remainder of the season more interesting, bring it on!
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