Time for a rule change in SX?

jbomx363
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 5:52pm
With all the hulabaloo last week of Reed not doing the night show (and taking up a qualifying spot), is it time to make a rule change in SX/MX?

Even if you qualify for the night show/day show with your lap time and If there is some reason that you know you can't make it to the show, why not allow the racer to withdraw in advance and go to the next in line on the qualifying sheet?

I don't think there is any prize money involved for just making it into the night show is there?

This would keep the gate full and not have any DNS in the main show heats.

Yes/No?
|
russerbe
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3/11/2010 6:44am
You've got a very valid point there my friend. I didn't even think of that. Think about the guy who qualified 41st who just missed the night show and would have been in had reed not used Daytona as his personal playground. Now that I think about it, that was pretty shitty of him.
Rupert X
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3/11/2010 6:47am


Empty GAYtes, whether it be in professional Supercross or Motocross, are

difficult for the common fan to comprehend, are counter-productive to the

spirit of competition in the sport of motocross, make for bad TV and,

should hereby be banned.

I like tuhtles.
jt $
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3/11/2010 6:54am
$500 to make the night show.. And 200$ to signup
mill2
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3/11/2010 6:59am
jt $ wrote:
$500 to make the night show.. And 200$ to signup
Do you know what you are talking about?.....Just playin JT

The Shop

jbomx363
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3/11/2010 7:04am
jt $ wrote:
$500 to make the night show.. And 200$ to signup
Okay.. well.. that is a dilemma I suppose, I doubt anyone wants to give up the $500 bones even if they know they won't be able to line up.

Solutions? FELD to pay out for the dropped rider and the add in or just add the guy in without the pay just to give the guy(s) opportunity in the night show?
flarider
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3/11/2010 7:08am
jt $ wrote:
$500 to make the night show.. And 200$ to signup
I remember there was this guy, who'd qualify for the main in both classes, but only race the main in one....

LOL
The Rock
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3/11/2010 7:25am
jbomx363 wrote:
Okay.. well.. that is a dilemma I suppose, I doubt anyone wants to give up the $500 bones even if they know they won't be able...
Okay.. well.. that is a dilemma I suppose, I doubt anyone wants to give up the $500 bones even if they know they won't be able to line up.

Solutions? FELD to pay out for the dropped rider and the add in or just add the guy in without the pay just to give the guy(s) opportunity in the night show?
Easy fix so I am not sure what is holding this change up in both SX and MX

In SX expand the field to 22 riders in both classes (that's the way it was in the 125 class forever) but keep the current points and purse payout that goes to 20 riders.

For MX it would require more communication so that some number of riders are identified as reserve riders for each of the National motos.

There is no reason why we can't have 40 riders on every National gate.
motomike894
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3/11/2010 7:27am
The empty gate thing is dumb, they have like 22 gates so why not have 44 riders go into night show instead of 40, then in Reeds case let the 41st guy in timed practice get out there when he decided not to race last minute, Im the sure they guy would have got his stuff on asap, and got out there.

And maybe have daytime qualifiers again instead of timed practice, lots of people liked that better from what I have heard?
txmxer
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3/11/2010 7:30am
or...the folks running the race could sac up, take some responsibility and make it happen on the fly.

Maybe not hand out the bones, but, they could have put the bike/rider on the line. The race director could have gone to #3 in the LCQ and told him to be ready to line up if Chad's not going to show...just a thought.
jbomx363
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3/11/2010 7:43am
txmxer wrote:
or...the folks running the race could sac up, take some responsibility and make it happen on the fly. Maybe not hand out the bones, but, they...
or...the folks running the race could sac up, take some responsibility and make it happen on the fly.

Maybe not hand out the bones, but, they could have put the bike/rider on the line. The race director could have gone to #3 in the LCQ and told him to be ready to line up if Chad's not going to show...just a thought.
That'd be another rule change to add to what I proposed.

1. If you can't make the main, withdraw and let the next LCQ guy come on the gate.

2. If you can't make the night show program, withdraw and let the next in qualifying lap times into the night program.

Works for me and I'm sure the racers would like it.
bogdan912
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3/11/2010 7:51am
44 riders to the night show

22 Per heat

top 9 to main rest to lcq

That leaves 26 riders for the LCQ - double row start?

If they take 10 from the heat Then you've got 24 riders for the lcq - double row start?.

If they take 11 from the heat, then they've got 0 riders for the lcq b/c the main will have a full gate.

72kiteboarder
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3/11/2010 7:53am
Can you imagine if NASCAR started a race without a complete field.
LongMX
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3/11/2010 8:00am
I agree, and bring back 22 Lites riders for the Main.
GuyB
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3/11/2010 8:07am
The gate in Daytona was larger than usual (I believe it was 28) for the amateur day race.
3/11/2010 8:50am
jbomx363 wrote:
With all the hulabaloo last week of Reed not doing the night show (and taking up a qualifying spot), is it time to make a rule...
With all the hulabaloo last week of Reed not doing the night show (and taking up a qualifying spot), is it time to make a rule change in SX/MX?

Even if you qualify for the night show/day show with your lap time and If there is some reason that you know you can't make it to the show, why not allow the racer to withdraw in advance and go to the next in line on the qualifying sheet?

I don't think there is any prize money involved for just making it into the night show is there?

This would keep the gate full and not have any DNS in the main show heats.

Yes/No?
Been a probllem for many many years Jbo. It's something that needs to be changed but then again....you have the AMA involved !!
DC
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3/11/2010 9:14am
Guy B is right but we did not add the last six gates (22 original) until after midnight Saturday.... I agree with JBon, there needs to be a system in place that makes sure that someone gets a spot in the night program. I called Jeff Canfield (AMA official) and asked if Reed officially pulled out. Turns out he did not. Jeff got a call from Monster Kawi team manager Mike Fisher who told him Chad was not going to ride, but until he came off over and officially signed out, Chad could have still gone out for the heat and/or LCQ. But it was already close to the program and it did not happen, so only 19 riders were in that heat.

So how would a rule or policy work here? I am all ears for outdoors (and I am sure SX would want to fix this loophole too), because a chance on the gate is too rare to pass up for most privateers.

DC
MX Sports
TeamGreen
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3/11/2010 9:18am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 9:19pm
DC wrote:
Guy B is right but we did not add the last six gates (22 original) until after midnight Saturday.... I agree with JBon, there needs to...
Guy B is right but we did not add the last six gates (22 original) until after midnight Saturday.... I agree with JBon, there needs to be a system in place that makes sure that someone gets a spot in the night program. I called Jeff Canfield (AMA official) and asked if Reed officially pulled out. Turns out he did not. Jeff got a call from Monster Kawi team manager Mike Fisher who told him Chad was not going to ride, but until he came off over and officially signed out, Chad could have still gone out for the heat and/or LCQ. But it was already close to the program and it did not happen, so only 19 riders were in that heat.

So how would a rule or policy work here? I am all ears for outdoors (and I am sure SX would want to fix this loophole too), because a chance on the gate is too rare to pass up for most privateers.

DC
MX Sports
A penalty-system for NOT showing up at the Gate & NOT having NOTIFIED the Officials that YOU AREN'T GOING TO race with-in a PRE-SET Time Period (XX Amount of time BEFORE the RACE).


I'm jus' sayin'...
TeamGreen
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3/11/2010 9:20am
The 21st Fastest, and on down in the case of MULTIPLE "Withdrawls", get's the Gate slot.

I'm jus' sayin'...
TeamGreen
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3/11/2010 9:20am
Non-"Withdrawl" fines start at...$1K...?
TeamGreen
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3/11/2010 9:22am
Potential "Suspension" for mutliple (2+ occurrences) in a Season...?
TeamGreen
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3/11/2010 9:22am
This Requires a Rules Committee Mtg at the Ale House!
jbomx363
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3/11/2010 9:39am
Team Green.. give it a break dude.

So how would a rule or policy work here? I am all ears for outdoors (and I am sure SX would want to fix this loophole too), because a chance on the gate is too rare to pass up for most privateers.

Just make it an alternate position, just like at LL's.

Make sure all the riders know that if they did not make a qualifying time for "the show", that they remain a possibility for the show as an alternate, starting with the next fastest qualifying time and so on. These alternates should be "ready to go" in case there is a spot for them.

If a rider makes a qualifying lap time and he can not for whatever reason (most likely, crashed later in the qualifying after his time was good enough to qualify, ala JLaw at Daytona, but could be mechanical issues) he must notify the track official (or whomever) no later than 15 minutes before the start of his heat. IMO, he should still get paid for qualifying though, I suppose that will have to be worked out as I don't see anyone withdrawing if the pay will be taken away. Whether or not the alternate gets paid is another matter.

Same for the getting into the mains. If a rider qualifies out of his heat for the main event and for whatever reason...same as above. The next person in the LCQ will be the alternate and so on.

I think it would be simple to implement and may make the racing for those last positions even better as even though they didn't make it out of the LCQ, they still have an outside shot.

TeamGreen
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3/11/2010 9:46am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 9:19pm
jbomx363 wrote:
Team Green.. give it a break dude. [i][b]So how would a rule or policy work here? I am all ears for outdoors (and I am sure...
Team Green.. give it a break dude.

So how would a rule or policy work here? I am all ears for outdoors (and I am sure SX would want to fix this loophole too), because a chance on the gate is too rare to pass up for most privateers.

Just make it an alternate position, just like at LL's.

Make sure all the riders know that if they did not make a qualifying time for "the show", that they remain a possibility for the show as an alternate, starting with the next fastest qualifying time and so on. These alternates should be "ready to go" in case there is a spot for them.

If a rider makes a qualifying lap time and he can not for whatever reason (most likely, crashed later in the qualifying after his time was good enough to qualify, ala JLaw at Daytona, but could be mechanical issues) he must notify the track official (or whomever) no later than 15 minutes before the start of his heat. IMO, he should still get paid for qualifying though, I suppose that will have to be worked out as I don't see anyone withdrawing if the pay will be taken away. Whether or not the alternate gets paid is another matter.

Same for the getting into the mains. If a rider qualifies out of his heat for the main event and for whatever reason...same as above. The next person in the LCQ will be the alternate and so on.

I think it would be simple to implement and may make the racing for those last positions even better as even though they didn't make it out of the LCQ, they still have an outside shot.

Dearest J'Bo...

There's plenty of time between 'TIMED PRACTICE' & "The Show"; therefore, your 15 minutes is OUT THE DOOR.

As to 'Give it a break'...

Look, Princess, your lack of knowledge in regards to "The Process" is almost as entertaining as your lack of a "Sense of Humor"; but, I digress, so...rant on, lil' man.

I'm jus' laffin'...
shaner708
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3/11/2010 9:50am
DC wrote:
Guy B is right but we did not add the last six gates (22 original) until after midnight Saturday.... I agree with JBon, there needs to...
Guy B is right but we did not add the last six gates (22 original) until after midnight Saturday.... I agree with JBon, there needs to be a system in place that makes sure that someone gets a spot in the night program. I called Jeff Canfield (AMA official) and asked if Reed officially pulled out. Turns out he did not. Jeff got a call from Monster Kawi team manager Mike Fisher who told him Chad was not going to ride, but until he came off over and officially signed out, Chad could have still gone out for the heat and/or LCQ. But it was already close to the program and it did not happen, so only 19 riders were in that heat.

So how would a rule or policy work here? I am all ears for outdoors (and I am sure SX would want to fix this loophole too), because a chance on the gate is too rare to pass up for most privateers.

DC
MX Sports
Maybe make it so that before the 1st moto, and during intermission the rider or someone in his group who was signed up by the rider has to come and report if they will line up. Also checking with Asterisk for information on injuries and whether a rider is clear to ride or even going to be able to.

I don't like a cash fine for not reporting a withdrawal, proposed above by Team Green, for the pure fact that if a full privateer gets hurt, and only has a family member or something at the race they will be more worried about their rider then reporting his status for the next moto. Not to mention some of those guys may not be able to pay the fine and miss races because of it
russerbe
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3/11/2010 9:58am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 9:19pm
jbomx363 wrote:
Team Green.. give it a break dude. [i][b]So how would a rule or policy work here? I am all ears for outdoors (and I am sure...
Team Green.. give it a break dude.

So how would a rule or policy work here? I am all ears for outdoors (and I am sure SX would want to fix this loophole too), because a chance on the gate is too rare to pass up for most privateers.

Just make it an alternate position, just like at LL's.

Make sure all the riders know that if they did not make a qualifying time for "the show", that they remain a possibility for the show as an alternate, starting with the next fastest qualifying time and so on. These alternates should be "ready to go" in case there is a spot for them.

If a rider makes a qualifying lap time and he can not for whatever reason (most likely, crashed later in the qualifying after his time was good enough to qualify, ala JLaw at Daytona, but could be mechanical issues) he must notify the track official (or whomever) no later than 15 minutes before the start of his heat. IMO, he should still get paid for qualifying though, I suppose that will have to be worked out as I don't see anyone withdrawing if the pay will be taken away. Whether or not the alternate gets paid is another matter.

Same for the getting into the mains. If a rider qualifies out of his heat for the main event and for whatever reason...same as above. The next person in the LCQ will be the alternate and so on.

I think it would be simple to implement and may make the racing for those last positions even better as even though they didn't make it out of the LCQ, they still have an outside shot.

I agree with J here, but add to it, that if the qualified rider doesn't make the gate or withdraw within so many minutes of the start, they loose their pay for qualifying and like the other guy said, if they do it more than twice in a season, they suffer a one race suspension. Let the next in line alternate know that he may still make the heat race or the main and to be suited up and ready to go just in case a rider is a no show. The replacement rider should then get the qualifying pay that the original rider would have gotten.

If a qualified rider does inform officials in time that he wasn't going to make his race for whatever reason, maybe he gets half of the qualifying pay and the alternate gets the other half.

BTW DC, I replied back to your email a few days ago about Hangtown and haven't heard back from you.
jbomx363
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3/11/2010 10:05am
TeamGreen wrote:
Dearest J'Bo... There's plenty of time between 'TIMED PRACTICE' & "The Show"; therefore, your 15 minutes is OUT THE DOOR. As to 'Give it a break'...
Dearest J'Bo...

There's plenty of time between 'TIMED PRACTICE' & "The Show"; therefore, your 15 minutes is OUT THE DOOR.

As to 'Give it a break'...

Look, Princess, your lack of knowledge in regards to "The Process" is almost as entertaining as your lack of a "Sense of Humor"; but, I digress, so...rant on, lil' man.

I'm jus' laffin'...
The point being, you're giving the guy (who may withdraw) plenty of time to try and rectify his situation, whether it be mechanical or an injury.

I know the process well enough to know that a change can/should be made.

And sorry, it's important enough that I found your 5 posts in a row with the main theme being fine the guy for not withdrawing on the ridiculous side.
TeamGreen
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3/11/2010 10:22am
TeamGreen wrote:
Dearest J'Bo... There's plenty of time between 'TIMED PRACTICE' & "The Show"; therefore, your 15 minutes is OUT THE DOOR. As to 'Give it a break'...
Dearest J'Bo...

There's plenty of time between 'TIMED PRACTICE' & "The Show"; therefore, your 15 minutes is OUT THE DOOR.

As to 'Give it a break'...

Look, Princess, your lack of knowledge in regards to "The Process" is almost as entertaining as your lack of a "Sense of Humor"; but, I digress, so...rant on, lil' man.

I'm jus' laffin'...
jbomx363 wrote:
The point being, you're giving the guy (who may withdraw) plenty of time to try and rectify his situation, whether it be mechanical or an injury...
The point being, you're giving the guy (who may withdraw) plenty of time to try and rectify his situation, whether it be mechanical or an injury.

I know the process well enough to know that a change can/should be made.

And sorry, it's important enough that I found your 5 posts in a row with the main theme being fine the guy for not withdrawing on the ridiculous side.
1. You seem to miss the point that by NOT WITHDRAWING in a realistic PERIOD of TIME...ANOTHER RIDER WAS DENIED the HARD-EARNED chance to be in "The Show"...

Why? Maybe it IS because Chad jus' wanted some 'Track-Time' since he was there...

Literally. Was he? Jus' there to "Gage" himself before he truly "Comes Back"? (Dallas).

2. This is the Web. You don't own a damn-thing: not even your "own" thread. Lighten up.

3. The Process? Go get the Daily-Schedule from Daytona: When did Chad last go out on the track? How much LATER did the "NIGHT" PROGRAM START? When did Mike call the AMA Official? Why didn't they "Formally" pull-out -or- why didn't the AMA take it upon themselves to get someone-else in there? Are we sure that they didn't?

4. It takes A LOT of money just to be entered and to get ot the track...shouldn't we look out for the "Privateers" best interests...including some Financial Penalties towards those that might, jus' might, be playing games on Race-Day?
jbomx363
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3/11/2010 10:32am
TeamGreen wrote:
1. You seem to miss the point that by NOT WITHDRAWING in a realistic PERIOD of TIME...ANOTHER RIDER WAS DENIED the HARD-EARNED chance to be in...
1. You seem to miss the point that by NOT WITHDRAWING in a realistic PERIOD of TIME...ANOTHER RIDER WAS DENIED the HARD-EARNED chance to be in "The Show"...

Why? Maybe it IS because Chad jus' wanted some 'Track-Time' since he was there...

Literally. Was he? Jus' there to "Gage" himself before he truly "Comes Back"? (Dallas).

2. This is the Web. You don't own a damn-thing: not even your "own" thread. Lighten up.

3. The Process? Go get the Daily-Schedule from Daytona: When did Chad last go out on the track? How much LATER did the "NIGHT" PROGRAM START? When did Mike call the AMA Official? Why didn't they "Formally" pull-out -or- why didn't the AMA take it upon themselves to get someone-else in there? Are we sure that they didn't?

4. It takes A LOT of money just to be entered and to get ot the track...shouldn't we look out for the "Privateers" best interests...including some Financial Penalties towards those that might, jus' might, be playing games on Race-Day?
1. Not missing the point and I didn't say there couldn't be a fine given, All the other part is up for speculation, you're not Chad, neither am I so I can't say what his intentions were or anything else.

2. I lighten up when someone doesn't take 5 posts in a row to get their point across, you do know where the "edit" button is right?

3. Is there a rule stating he must pull out and a rule stating the the AMA must put someone else there? Really has no bearing here.

4. Yep.
The Rock
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3/11/2010 10:33am
DC wrote:
Guy B is right but we did not add the last six gates (22 original) until after midnight Saturday.... I agree with JBon, there needs to...
Guy B is right but we did not add the last six gates (22 original) until after midnight Saturday.... I agree with JBon, there needs to be a system in place that makes sure that someone gets a spot in the night program. I called Jeff Canfield (AMA official) and asked if Reed officially pulled out. Turns out he did not. Jeff got a call from Monster Kawi team manager Mike Fisher who told him Chad was not going to ride, but until he came off over and officially signed out, Chad could have still gone out for the heat and/or LCQ. But it was already close to the program and it did not happen, so only 19 riders were in that heat.

So how would a rule or policy work here? I am all ears for outdoors (and I am sure SX would want to fix this loophole too), because a chance on the gate is too rare to pass up for most privateers.

DC
MX Sports
DC glad you are on board with this.

For outdoors announce at the riders meeting the the 41st to 46th (might need to be more) qualifiers have the option of being reserve riders for both motos Think there were there a National moto or two last year that only had around 35 riders on the gate for the second moto so am just using six riders as a starting point.

Have a time cut off requirement riders have to let the officials now they are not competing to allow time to contact the reserve riders they will be up the next moto.

mxrose3
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3/11/2010 10:48am Edited Date/Time 3/11/2010 10:50am
I agree with the alternates idea - just have 2 or so alternates show up for the heat races in case someone doesn't show up. If you don't show up for your first heat race, you automatically give up your spot for the night to the alternate.
If you are having a legitimate mechanical problem that can be fixed before the LCQ, inform the referee to hold your spot for the LCQ. If you can't make the LCQ, give it to the alternate also.

Post a reply to: Time for a rule change in SX?

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