Time for Japan, Inc. to embrace the "affordable alternative" market niche ?

1/5/2018 5:15pm
seth505 wrote:
There are already many people with 100-300 hours on their KTM bikes. There are some crazy ass comments in here...
And probably just as many that have had defects.
malachi177
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1/5/2018 5:22pm Edited Date/Time 1/5/2018 8:33pm
2014 RMZ250 with over 60hrs on it. Aside from one top end, chain, sprockets, tires, grips, fork seals and everything else that goes with it....it's been absolutely bulletproof. The build quality is good, it's easy to work on, and the valves have only needed adjustment once....at 20hrs. Just put on all new plastics, graphics, and a seat cover to fresh it up for the upcoming season. Next winter it will be new bike time....the new RMZ250 or possibly the RMZ450, because Suzuki's are awesome IMO

...local dealer as of today

'17 CRF250 $8199 + $695 FR/PDI
'17 KTM250SXF $10299 +$795 FR/PDI.....that's $2200 more. Worth it?....not IMO

EDIT: upon further looking at different local dealers

'17 KX250F $7299 + FR/PDI (price not listed)
'17 RMZ250 $6999 + FR/PDI (price not listed)

Couldn't find any left over YZ250F's

No '17 left but the '18 FC250 is $11299 + FR/PDI....I will never buy anything KTM related. It's the HD of dirtbikes.


yz133rider
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1/5/2018 6:06pm
Why the hell they are charging 10.3 plus fees on 250f your gettibg ripped off.

The Shop

agn5009
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1/5/2018 6:06pm
agn5009 wrote:
Put race fuel in a KTM once and see what happens. For the most part the Kawi doesn't match up with the KTM at all.
731chopper wrote:
My last 250f was a 14 Kawi (the old gen) and my dad had a FE ktm 250f (still the current gen). There wasn't that big...
My last 250f was a 14 Kawi (the old gen) and my dad had a FE ktm 250f (still the current gen). There wasn't that big of a difference in the bikes. I'd say the KTM chassis corners better in tight turns and that was noticeable but I think that can be done with the Kawi with a set of clamps. The current Kawi is supposed to corner better than the previous gen though. The belief that the KTM is a much better bike than the Japanese bikes is bogus, especially when you factor in the prices. They've done a hell of a job at brand building and marketing though so good for them.
Like I said, I won't comment on the MX side of it. I haven't raced MX in about 10 years. But as far as offroad goes, there's not a Japanese bike that can hold a candle to a KTM. Period. Anyone who tried arguing that will just lose all credibility. The new yz 250x is ok, but still nothing compared to the KTM.
1/5/2018 6:27pm
Rumour, and thats all I have heard. Some Pro's with no ride still go the Sushi bike route.

Except for ML512 saying he "expects" Mookie to show up on a Kawi, so there must be some reason he's on Green.
I guess we see 2moro night.

Hoping for a fill in at Monster if Eli or Grant hits the deck ?
bama205
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1/5/2018 6:55pm
user760a wrote:
and this is not a debate over whose bike is faster with race gas in it. who gives a fuck. some kid on a 1985 CR250...
and this is not a debate over whose bike is faster with race gas in it. who gives a fuck. some kid on a 1985 CR250 will whoop all of your asses. these days, performance is not all that far off the mark on any one bike, aside from maybe RMZ250's and pre 18 CRF250's. This is about real and perceived value in the eyes of the consumer.

I think if suzuki wanted to get back in the game they would stop trying to duplicate every other japanese bike in yellow. They should forge a new corporate identity.If not a completely new identity, how about just building an epic new 300 two stroke in a couple versions and a 350? if they are going to be content as a follow the leader brand, why not follow the actual leader?

The reborn Triumph briefly tried to out-do the japanese with inline 4 sportbikes and cruisers, etc, in the 1990's. They did not compare favorably and did not sell. Then they decided to go their own way, embracing the triple (three cyl bikes, not the triple at wendy's), producing a unique, desirable product that sells. Suzuki had better think about doing something similar, they are swirling around the drain ytrying to out Honda the Honda people.
Thanks for telling everyone the debate rules
pdub187
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1/5/2018 7:02pm
I'm pretty close to buying a new rmz450. I'm just waiting awhile until they're discounted a bit. I rode one and loved it and I want a 450 to do some desert racing as the tiddler yz doesn't really cut it out there.
seth505
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1/5/2018 7:54pm
yz133rider wrote:
Why the hell they are charging 10.3 plus fees on 250f your gettibg ripped off.
That dealer is on crack perhaps
seth505
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1/5/2018 7:55pm
seth505 wrote:
There are already many people with 100-300 hours on their KTM bikes. There are some crazy ass comments in here...
And probably just as many that have had defects.
Ok...
Crush
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1/5/2018 8:05pm
Thought it was really interesting listening to Ping on DMXS this morning... Talking about the 125 dream race series they're trying to get off the ground.

Seemed that even some of the manufacturers that make 125s that aren't current (read: Yamaha) weren't that keen to support it because they didn't want to promote potential cannibalising sales.

Fucking crazy man, the whole industry is head up ass backwards in so many regards. No wander it's dwindling.
TeamGreen
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1/5/2018 8:15pm
Crush wrote:
Thought it was really interesting listening to Ping on DMXS this morning... Talking about the 125 dream race series they're trying to get off the ground...
Thought it was really interesting listening to Ping on DMXS this morning... Talking about the 125 dream race series they're trying to get off the ground.

Seemed that even some of the manufacturers that make 125s that aren't current (read: Yamaha) weren't that keen to support it because they didn't want to promote potential cannibalising sales.

Fucking crazy man, the whole industry is head up ass backwards in so many regards. No wander it's dwindling.
I'm gonna have to agree with the giant ape...well, Gorilla.
kaptkaos
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1/5/2018 8:18pm
I too grew up riding in the late 70's and early 80's being 50 now. I can remember when bikes were not very good, even when the Jap bikes were all very different and not equal, however, the Jap reliability was still there and a KTM, Husky or Maico was a difficult bike to ride and own. I will never outgrow those memories and thus I cannot own a Husky or KTM.

I will admit, they are tempting in some ways, the KTM 250 F looks like it would be perfect for me.

I also really like the Husky 701 Supermoto and the KTM Dukes Naked Sport bikes. Funny, the Dukes are priced below the Japs on the street!

For me, I bleed Red Honda blood. I always buy Honda unless they dont have a product in the space.
malachi177
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1/5/2018 8:21pm
yz133rider wrote:
Why the hell they are charging 10.3 plus fees on 250f your gettibg ripped off.
seth505 wrote:
That dealer is on crack perhaps
Canadian $$$$
1/5/2018 9:15pm
Rhino wrote:
Dealer just sold a 450 RMZ 2018 for 6200.

How much do they have in these things?
let’s see it!!! I would love to see the invoice. Guarantee you will never provide that invoice.

A lot of talk on these boards but not a single piece of legitimacy!

17’ models will sell at that price but not an 18....Current year bikes all have a certain margin but all oem’s have some sort of price protection on current year models for good portion of that selling year. That is what all oem’s have in place so that their bikes don’t take a dive. Dealers cannot sell below that threshold no matter what someone tells you.
mxb2
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1/5/2018 9:24pm
Rhino wrote:
Dealer just sold a 450 RMZ 2018 for 6200.

How much do they have in these things?
let’s see it!!! I would love to see the invoice. Guarantee you will never provide that invoice. A lot of talk on these boards but not...
let’s see it!!! I would love to see the invoice. Guarantee you will never provide that invoice.

A lot of talk on these boards but not a single piece of legitimacy!

17’ models will sell at that price but not an 18....Current year bikes all have a certain margin but all oem’s have some sort of price protection on current year models for good portion of that selling year. That is what all oem’s have in place so that their bikes don’t take a dive. Dealers cannot sell below that threshold no matter what someone tells you.
Boom, X2 , no way getting a 18 Rmz 450 for $6200.
SwingHard
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1/5/2018 11:34pm
I bought a 17' Husky FC-350. Like alot of us 50 plus guys ,I bought it because I could at this point in my life. Although I could've picked up any 17' japanese 450 and saved a few bucks,I wanted to see what all the hype was about with the Husky/KTM. First couple of rides,all smiles.Than I realized, I wasn't any faster on the Husky than I was on my 15' CRF-450,which I regret selling! The love affair with E-start? That ended pretty quick. My Honda always fired first or second kick! I've been starting my dirt bikes the same way for 47 years,its pretty simple really.,no need to reinvent this. Long story short, I sold the Husky with just a handful of hours on it. Although the Husky was a good bike,the Hype just didn't live up to the reality,FOR ME!
In the next 30 days,I will pick up a 17' or 18' RMZ-450 ,looking for the best deal, and my 2 stroke choice will be a YZ-250X. Both proven bikes 1000 X over! Check back in 8 years,guaranteed both bikes will be going strong!
Lightning78
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1/5/2018 11:49pm
Rumour, and thats all I have heard. Some Pro's with no ride still go the Sushi bike route. Except for ML512 saying he "expects" Mookie to...
Rumour, and thats all I have heard. Some Pro's with no ride still go the Sushi bike route.

Except for ML512 saying he "expects" Mookie to show up on a Kawi, so there must be some reason he's on Green.
I guess we see 2moro night.

Hoping for a fill in at Monster if Eli or Grant hits the deck ?
Mookie aint racing A1 ....call me a biggiot but apparently he didnt have enough time to prep...seems a full year wasnt enough time to figure out that you should be riding A bike regardless of brand until things start to lean in a direction that gives you a better idea of which brand(s) to focus on, that is, IFF (if and only if) hes determined to ride and make it a full committed prefession, on the outside which is purely speculation on mu part hes taking this as more of a side job he wants to do if he gets paid good in a sense that he putting the cart before the horse.

If anyone trys ti say that EITHER Stewart has a hard time getting bikes or its a huge financial burden for even Mookie to get a bike I have to call that as BS. I know plenty of low-level Racers that never made a huge Splash in the Pro ranks that ride tracks as professional practice writers and or just riding the hills and all of them are able to get bikes every year even if it's on Loan program where they pay $1,500 and get a new bike and return the other one so it can be sold as a demo bike or what have you there's no way that the Stewart's one had to pay retail or to have any problem finding a way to get bikes even if it's a small cash expenditure they'll never have to pay as much as someone like me that would just walk into a dealer and I have no qualms with that no problem whatsoever because they are who they are and I'm done what they've done I respect that but crying about it in a sense and i dont mean literally not being able to get bikes is more of a woe-is-me excuse then actually stepping up and doing it and it's pretty lame that Malcolm can't make Anaheim 1 I'm sure guy b and a few others might know more than I know but since there is Radio silence on social media to me it seems like a childish move and he's not making to a one will further be frowned upon when he's searching for a ride.

If anybody response to my comment and takes my words as more respectful of negative bash on Malcolm that's not the case I just see so many racers including Chad Reed who's had only a week to prepare making it to Anaheim one even with a sore ankle....its like that old Doug Henry Fox poster "Whats Stopping You?"
Lightning78
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1/5/2018 11:53pm
Crush wrote:
Thought it was really interesting listening to Ping on DMXS this morning... Talking about the 125 dream race series they're trying to get off the ground...
Thought it was really interesting listening to Ping on DMXS this morning... Talking about the 125 dream race series they're trying to get off the ground.

Seemed that even some of the manufacturers that make 125s that aren't current (read: Yamaha) weren't that keen to support it because they didn't want to promote potential cannibalising sales.

Fucking crazy man, the whole industry is head up ass backwards in so many regards. No wander it's dwindling.
TeamGreen wrote:
I'm gonna have to agree with the giant ape...well, Gorilla.
And that's what happens when the overwhelming majority...call it 80-85% of the entire dirt bike industry is run by Expo racers that did not spend there perspective years in school or bros of bros of racers or just industry friends run the entire show it's a very small minded close minded and I hate to say it old boys club within the industry itself it's lame and people really need to pull their archaic asses out of their heads at some point of course you want enthusiasm at the helm but I think maybe the industry of the whole should be more keen on putting people with some level of intelligence in those pots match is someone who's a friend or an EX racerthat was popular....sometimes i feel like the whole industry is more of a high school click' that a professionally ran business
Fearo
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1/6/2018 12:23am Edited Date/Time 1/6/2018 12:31am
It's been said a million times, but if they really wanted to focus on "affordable alternative" bikes, they would be making $5-6K 2-strokes. BOOM, half (new) the two-stroke market conquered the first year, guaranteed.

I've been on KTM for 10 years and my 2018 SX250 is the best bike I can imagine. However, I also have bills and other shit to pay for. Even though motocross is my life, the fact that I don't earn any money doing it means it is a HOBBY, and saving up 8K euros for a new dirtbike because there's no cheaper alternatives flat out sucks. Like I said, I love my bike, but if one of the Japanese brands made a 250 2-stroke with 80% of KTM's specs that was $2500 cheaper...Sign me the fuck up.
1/6/2018 6:15am Edited Date/Time 1/6/2018 6:17am
kaptkaos wrote:
I too grew up riding in the late 70's and early 80's being 50 now. I can remember when bikes were not very good, even when...
I too grew up riding in the late 70's and early 80's being 50 now. I can remember when bikes were not very good, even when the Jap bikes were all very different and not equal, however, the Jap reliability was still there and a KTM, Husky or Maico was a difficult bike to ride and own. I will never outgrow those memories and thus I cannot own a Husky or KTM.

I will admit, they are tempting in some ways, the KTM 250 F looks like it would be perfect for me.

I also really like the Husky 701 Supermoto and the KTM Dukes Naked Sport bikes. Funny, the Dukes are priced below the Japs on the street!

For me, I bleed Red Honda blood. I always buy Honda unless they dont have a product in the space.
I also really like the Husky 701 Supermoto and the KTM Dukes Naked Sport bikes. Funny, the Dukes are priced below the Japs on the street!


That's because the build quality is questionable... My 690 enduro was a nice bike overall, but it felt a bit like a 'Fisher-price' bike. I'd get an MT09 instead of a duke. And that comes from someone who bleeds orange.

Can't wait for the 790 adventure tho. I really hope it feels as solid as it looks.
kaptkaos
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1/6/2018 7:36am
BMW released a $5000 310GS Adv bike that looks like a lot of fun.

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