Time To End The East/West Thing

rancor19
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Springfield, OR US
There's a thread on this about every week, I know, but the racing is too good when all these kids get together. I realize people consider this a 'steppingstone' class(not sure why, I thought they were already pros) or whatever but I have no idea why anyone thinks this is still a good idea.

Here's what I'm thinking:
- Friday night qualifying Whistling
- Saturday night show consists of 2 - 450A mains(top 22 450 qualifiers race twice) and 1 - 250A main(top 22 250 qualifiers race one time) and 1 - 250B main(qualifiers #23 thru 44 race one time). No transfers out of the B main.

250B Main
450A Main #1
Intermission
250A Main
450A Main #2

This would provide plenty of room for up-and-comers to get track time(B main) and let all the best of the class(A main) compete against each other.

Points Breakdown:

250 A-Main:

1 50 pts.
2 47
3 46
4 45
5 44
.
.
.
.
20 29
21 28
22 27

250 B-Main:

1 25 pts.
2 20
3 19
4 18
5 17
.
.
.
.
20 2
21 1
22 0

Or something...

Pretty simple. Let's get this implemented for next year Cool

|
malachi177
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B.C., BC CA
5/7/2017 5:14pm
I love the East/West thing. It makes it more affordable for teams to do one side of the country...and it's also wicked to see them all together at the end. It's my favourite part of the Vegas finale. Work always seems to get in the way, but next year I plan to take the family...this year would've been EPIC to be at!
TXDirt
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Plano, TX US
5/7/2017 5:32pm
The east west thing is perfect. Only thing I would do is make 3 combined rounds during the year instead of only one.
Xeno
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5/7/2017 5:43pm Edited Date/Time 5/7/2017 5:44pm
Either make it a true regional, stepping-stone class by limiting a racer to 30 lifetime starts,
OR- get rid it the so-called "rules" (which are useless) and make it open to any licsensed pro.
Osborne won the championship in 57 starts, just get rid of the limits- they are not working.
By the way- there are no limits for 250 AMA Nationals and there is never any chatter about sandbagging. It's great racing.
rancor19
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5/7/2017 6:05pm
Xeno wrote:
Either make it a true regional, stepping-stone class by limiting a racer to 30 lifetime starts, OR- get rid it the so-called "rules" (which are useless)...
Either make it a true regional, stepping-stone class by limiting a racer to 30 lifetime starts,
OR- get rid it the so-called "rules" (which are useless) and make it open to any licsensed pro.
Osborne won the championship in 57 starts, just get rid of the limits- they are not working.
By the way- there are no limits for 250 AMA Nationals and there is never any chatter about sandbagging. It's great racing.
I agree on dropping the rules altogether. If you're a licensed pro and have a 250, you should be able to enter and race the class as long as you like.

The Shop

Mini Elsinore
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Huntington Beach, CA US
5/7/2017 6:20pm
I agree with OP.
Should do away with permanent numbers also---run what ya earn.
cbuehler767
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New London, CT US
5/7/2017 6:28pm
rancor19 wrote:
I agree on dropping the rules altogether. If you're a licensed pro and have a 250, you should be able to enter and race the class...
I agree on dropping the rules altogether. If you're a licensed pro and have a 250, you should be able to enter and race the class as long as you like.
Yes this. A 250 specialist shouldn't be made to move up and potentially limit his worth to a team. Pro is pro
Crush
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Sydney AU
5/7/2017 6:35pm
Nope. Too many industry jobs and rider opportunities are provided by splitting up the coasts.

The answer needs to be something that creates some story lines, not makes it more boring!

What they need to do is make each series 8 races long, but 5 of them are East West meet ups with E/W series winner that has a serious bonus attached too it. It'll make the riders try more and create some more excitement.
stewie94
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5/7/2017 6:44pm
me personally i like it the way it is but an addition , at least make the east /west shootout like vegas tht counts for pts to their coastal cship for 2 rds , vegas & say like dallas or houston or some other rd
Radman66
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5/7/2017 6:45pm
One of the best supercross seasons in recent memory and we want to blow up the entire format?
TDeath21
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5/7/2017 6:49pm
Yes something needs to be done for sure. The sport has evolved so much that a regional series isn't being used for what it was originally meant for. I'd be in favor of a 125 East and West. Or a 250 East and West. Limit the age to 20 and career starts to 20. Have a full 17 rounds on the 250 class. But I'm not sure if the tracks could hold up. It's probably the best it can be right now. They could tweak some things when it comes to the rules, but that's an entire different argument.
rancor19
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5/7/2017 7:14pm Edited Date/Time 5/7/2017 7:15pm
Crush wrote:
Nope. Too many industry jobs and rider opportunities are provided by splitting up the coasts. The answer needs to be something that creates some story lines...
Nope. Too many industry jobs and rider opportunities are provided by splitting up the coasts.

The answer needs to be something that creates some story lines, not makes it more boring!

What they need to do is make each series 8 races long, but 5 of them are East West meet ups with E/W series winner that has a serious bonus attached too it. It'll make the riders try more and create some more excitement.
Hmmm. And all along I thought this was about racing.

Gimme a sec... I need to reset the algorithms on my logical ideas calculator to 'more fast riders on the same track at the same time = BORING'...

And....done.
Wait a minute...
WTF? Now this calculator just scheduled two FIM world championship series' to run concurrently...

So that's how they did it.... Whistling
yak651
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5/7/2017 7:22pm
Get rid of 250 east/west. Make it 125 east/west for true supercross intro. Get rid of 450s and having everyone else racing 250f's indoors. The 450s are too fast for indoors. Maybe have a A main and B main so everyone gets some TV time. So afternoon qualifying, 125 main on TV. 250 A/B qualifying in the afternoon, A/B heats and LCQ than 250 a and b mains. No need for semis, the 125 main would provide the additional "action" lost from the "450" semis
rancor19
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5/7/2017 7:27pm
Radman66 wrote:
One of the best supercross seasons in recent memory and we want to blow up the entire format?
How can you deny it would be better with all those 250 guys racing each other all season?
Crush
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5/7/2017 7:30pm Edited Date/Time 5/7/2017 7:32pm
rancor19 wrote:
Hmmm. And all along I thought this was about racing. Gimme a sec... I need to reset the algorithms on my logical ideas calculator to 'more...
Hmmm. And all along I thought this was about racing.

Gimme a sec... I need to reset the algorithms on my logical ideas calculator to 'more fast riders on the same track at the same time = BORING'...

And....done.
Wait a minute...
WTF? Now this calculator just scheduled two FIM world championship series' to run concurrently...

So that's how they did it.... Whistling
Yeah, it's about racing, but what about half the field and their support staff who are now shit out of luck?

You can't cut the opportunities in half and expect a struggling sport to be better because you think somehow the racing will improve... which, it won't, it'll be like every other series... 22 dudes in a race, some runaways, some tight races and all of the usual, but nothing new, just less rider opportunities, crew jobs and potential sponsor exposure.

What about half the sponsors who now have fuck all chance of exposure? There is only one winner.

That's why they should go the other way, give the East West thing a boost, in the old days there was bragging rights. Well leverage that. Get a sponsor to put up a cheque and a truck for the East West series champ. Watch the newslines as East guys get in and spoil west championships etc...

SX needs stories and interest, cause no one but us gives a fuck if the racing is good and the TV cameras struggle to capture the battle for first, let alone if there was bar banging to 20th... Sponsors need something to latch on to.
KirkChandler
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5/7/2017 7:35pm
rancor19 wrote:
How can you deny it would be better with all those 250 guys racing each other all season?
Having all the riders is awesome for a few races a year because 4 guys from each coast know they can win and then there are another 4-5 guys from each coast that know they can podium. They all have a level of confidence.

But after you combined them and raced a dozen races the pecking order would be set and 3-4 guys would be in contention to win before the gate drops instead of 6-8 guys. It's just like how the outdoors starts off with anyone can win and by the final rounds there's only a handful still riding up to their pre-season expectations.

Also you would most likely lose 1-2 spots on each team, because teams would not run 4-5 rider teams like Pro Circuit, Geico, Star, TLD currently do. They would all reduce down to 1-3 rider teams eventually.
kzizok
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5/7/2017 7:47pm Edited Date/Time 5/7/2017 8:00pm
If the 450 class split coasts, you would have more opportunities for riders moving up, or forced out of the 250 class.

Another thought, what about consolidating into one class? Sure seems like it would be more efficient and would reduce all of the 250 east/west costs.

BTW, I support the east/west division (under the current SX structure) for the exact reasons Crush mentioned. The above is food for thought.
worcsracer808
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Boulder City, NV US
5/7/2017 7:57pm
Should do like a combined chase thing for the 250s, have 6 rounds of west, 6 rounds of east, then the top 10 (in points) from each coast are invited to combine for the final 5 rounds with the points reset to 0 and have a chase to the finish
5/7/2017 9:04pm
rancor19 wrote:
There's a thread on this about every week, I know, but the racing is too good when all these kids get together. I realize people consider...
There's a thread on this about every week, I know, but the racing is too good when all these kids get together. I realize people consider this a 'steppingstone' class(not sure why, I thought they were already pros) or whatever but I have no idea why anyone thinks this is still a good idea.

Here's what I'm thinking:
- Friday night qualifying Whistling
- Saturday night show consists of 2 - 450A mains(top 22 450 qualifiers race twice) and 1 - 250A main(top 22 250 qualifiers race one time) and 1 - 250B main(qualifiers #23 thru 44 race one time). No transfers out of the B main.

250B Main
450A Main #1
Intermission
250A Main
450A Main #2

This would provide plenty of room for up-and-comers to get track time(B main) and let all the best of the class(A main) compete against each other.

Points Breakdown:

250 A-Main:

1 50 pts.
2 47
3 46
4 45
5 44
.
.
.
.
20 29
21 28
22 27

250 B-Main:

1 25 pts.
2 20
3 19
4 18
5 17
.
.
.
.
20 2
21 1
22 0

Or something...

Pretty simple. Let's get this implemented for next year Cool

Yeah, simple except for one thing.

$$$

wfo4ever
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NC US
5/7/2017 9:37pm
Add a East and West 125cc class as a stepping stone class. Keep 250 East and West and 450 pro classes. Let riders race 250 class until they are 70 then they need to move up to the 450 class.
motomike137
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Fenton, MI US
5/8/2017 5:48am
The only thing I might change would be to have a couple more inter series races mixed in. It is good the way it is for many reasons though. Even though there are some long timers in the class it is primarily the younger guys that in many cases are just graduating to the pro ranks and asking them to do the whole series would be a very expensive and physically taxing endeavor. I'm willing to bet that most of the top 250 teams would not be employing four riders if the two series were consolidated.
bdub
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Elkhart Lake, WI US
5/8/2017 7:38am
I love the East/West shootout, one of the best races of the year imo. I would love to see another shootout at a track like Daytona, how much more exciting would it make that race?
philG
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GB
5/8/2017 8:14am
Should do like a combined chase thing for the 250s, have 6 rounds of west, 6 rounds of east, then the top 10 (in points) from...
Should do like a combined chase thing for the 250s, have 6 rounds of west, 6 rounds of east, then the top 10 (in points) from each coast are invited to combine for the final 5 rounds with the points reset to 0 and have a chase to the finish
That sounds like a plan. So you get a regional Champ in East and West, and a 250 National SX Champion
Katoomey
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WY US
5/8/2017 8:23am
Some of the issues in this sport relate to up and coming riders. I agree that the format might not make sense for the top riders in the class, but the format isnt designed for them. Its designed for the up and coming riders.

TannerMxer
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5/8/2017 8:44am
I completely disagree. I think the East/West thing is awesome. Different strokes for different folks.
tomm55x
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Erie, PA US
5/8/2017 9:42am
I also disagree, the Dave Coombs Sr. East-West 250 shootout is a good thing for the entire industry. So good in fact they should meet up 3 times a season, once east, once west on various tracks and then Vegas for the last race.
5/8/2017 9:45am
Splitting the east west = more privateers trying and making the show. If it's combined = more factory guys and way less "no named" privateers making the main.
early
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5/8/2017 10:04am
tomm55x wrote:
I also disagree, the Dave Coombs Sr. East-West 250 shootout is a good thing for the entire industry. So good in fact they should meet up...
I also disagree, the Dave Coombs Sr. East-West 250 shootout is a good thing for the entire industry. So good in fact they should meet up 3 times a season, once east, once west on various tracks and then Vegas for the last race.
A1, Atlanta, Vegas
roninho
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5/8/2017 10:14am
Splitting the east west = more privateers trying and making the show. If it's combined = more factory guys and way less "no named" privateers making...
Splitting the east west = more privateers trying and making the show. If it's combined = more factory guys and way less "no named" privateers making the main.
And more importantly i would expect less factory/paid rides available combined.

Combining both series mean 15 riders will not finish in the top 15 standings. And there is not much money available for a guy who will run outside top 10-15.

Keep both series but get rid of the point out rule. If Yamaha wants to pay Reed to win a 250 SX and mx title and Chad wants to race 250 why block him?

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