Tickle b sample positive

tkimb wrote:

Agreed, someone like him to could easily be competitive on a rather stock bike in Canada too.

Roostermx58 wrote:

Wonder how much money he has saved up to go racing on his own dime, especially if KTM starts making him pay back all his earnings...

Wonder how much money he has saved up to go racing on his own dime, especially if KTM starts making him pay back all his earnings because of the suspension? I am sure its been tough on him not earning a paycheck from the last couple of supercross races.

I am not sure how many professional riders would by a stock buy and go and race it. Especially a caliber rider like Tickle will need suspension and likely motor work before feeling comfortable on the bike.

DonM wrote:

Conviction? When was he arrested...

milliebays wrote:

general question, what would the incentive be for them to put something in their supps unlabeled? genuinely curious how it works.

TbonesPop wrote:

It's likely not that the supplement company put it in there and didn't label it correctly. The industry is super shady and unregulated for the most...

It's likely not that the supplement company put it in there and didn't label it correctly. The industry is super shady and unregulated for the most part. I doubt a company would add that to a product intentionally and not put it on the label. The most likely scenario (outside of Broc just simply outright cheating, getting caught, and lying) is that the manufacturing company didn't properly clean their equipment between batches of various products they make. Most supplement companies don't make their own products, they have them "contract manufactured". The contract manufacturers make various products for multiple companies. It's easy to get cross contamination from batch to batch. The supplement industry is not regulated like the pharmaceutical industry is. In the Pharma industry, you have GMP manufacturing plus "change control" processes where there is a requirement for validation on every batch of product made. This validation step requires the use of cleaning additives that remove 100% of the previous batch before the next batch can be made - then validation testing is performed to ensure the equipment is clean and there is no trace of material from the previous batch. This is one reason why the pharmaceutical products in this country are expensive - not that they still aren't over priced, but there is a legit additional cost kicker for GMP and validation steps for QC. The supplement industry has none of the requirements that the pharma industry has.

This is the reason why Broc wants to know what level he tested positive for and for that to be public. If it was a high amount, there is no way it was cross contamination. If it was a trace amount, it is highly likely it was cross contamination. It may not fix the issue for Broc, but it could be an indicator as to what happened.

Adam43 wrote:

The mental gymnastics some Vitards go through to justify this are laughable. Must have been something he ate! Darn WADA! Maybe Broc can start a Floyd...

The mental gymnastics some Vitards go through to justify this are laughable.

Must have been something he ate! Darn WADA!

Maybe Broc can start a Floyd Landis style "Fairness Fund" to fight this grave injustice.

Mit12 wrote:

First. No one is failing drug test from eating food. This is one of the reasons they have set thresholds. Second. Did anyone really think his...

First. No one is failing drug test from eating food. This is one of the reasons they have set thresholds.
Second. Did anyone really think his “B” sample was going to pass?
Just like we will never know the truth about who killed Kennedy, Brock will never tell that he took something banned.
WADA is extremely out of line with respect to punishment but they do not make mistakes with testing samples.

make1go wrote:

are you seriously going to say that they never make mistakes...?....stupidezt thing posted, everyone makes them or are you saying they are perfect....?

milliebays wrote:

general question, what would the incentive be for them to put something in their supps unlabeled? genuinely curious how it works.

TbonesPop wrote:

It's likely not that the supplement company put it in there and didn't label it correctly. The industry is super shady and unregulated for the most...

It's likely not that the supplement company put it in there and didn't label it correctly. The industry is super shady and unregulated for the most part. I doubt a company would add that to a product intentionally and not put it on the label. The most likely scenario (outside of Broc just simply outright cheating, getting caught, and lying) is that the manufacturing company didn't properly clean their equipment between batches of various products they make. Most supplement companies don't make their own products, they have them "contract manufactured". The contract manufacturers make various products for multiple companies. It's easy to get cross contamination from batch to batch. The supplement industry is not regulated like the pharmaceutical industry is. In the Pharma industry, you have GMP manufacturing plus "change control" processes where there is a requirement for validation on every batch of product made. This validation step requires the use of cleaning additives that remove 100% of the previous batch before the next batch can be made - then validation testing is performed to ensure the equipment is clean and there is no trace of material from the previous batch. This is one reason why the pharmaceutical products in this country are expensive - not that they still aren't over priced, but there is a legit additional cost kicker for GMP and validation steps for QC. The supplement industry has none of the requirements that the pharma industry has.

This is the reason why Broc wants to know what level he tested positive for and for that to be public. If it was a high amount, there is no way it was cross contamination. If it was a trace amount, it is highly likely it was cross contamination. It may not fix the issue for Broc, but it could be an indicator as to what happened.

Radical wrote:

This

Adam43 wrote:

The mental gymnastics some Vitards go through to justify this are laughable. Must have been something he ate! Darn WADA! Maybe Broc can start a Floyd...

The mental gymnastics some Vitards go through to justify this are laughable.

Must have been something he ate! Darn WADA!

Maybe Broc can start a Floyd Landis style "Fairness Fund" to fight this grave injustice.

Fearo wrote:

I agree 100% It cracks me up how he keeps writing "allegedly" in every sentince and how me he writes with full confidence that he has...

I agree 100%

It cracks me up how he keeps writing "allegedly" in every sentince and how me he writes with full confidence that he has never (negligently) ingested a banned substance.

Well, two different tests say otherwise, bro.

If he did not intentionally cheat, he has every right to be pissed off, but the way he writes things makes it sound like the charges against him are completele laughable and he is somehow above everything.

TbonesPop wrote:

It's likely not that the supplement company put it in there and didn't label it correctly. The industry is super shady and unregulated for the most...

It's likely not that the supplement company put it in there and didn't label it correctly. The industry is super shady and unregulated for the most part. I doubt a company would add that to a product intentionally and not put it on the label. The most likely scenario (outside of Broc just simply outright cheating, getting caught, and lying) is that the manufacturing company didn't properly clean their equipment between batches of various products they make. Most supplement companies don't make their own products, they have them "contract manufactured". The contract manufacturers make various products for multiple companies. It's easy to get cross contamination from batch to batch. The supplement industry is not regulated like the pharmaceutical industry is. In the Pharma industry, you have GMP manufacturing plus "change control" processes where there is a requirement for validation on every batch of product made. This validation step requires the use of cleaning additives that remove 100% of the previous batch before the next batch can be made - then validation testing is performed to ensure the equipment is clean and there is no trace of material from the previous batch. This is one reason why the pharmaceutical products in this country are expensive - not that they still aren't over priced, but there is a legit additional cost kicker for GMP and validation steps for QC. The supplement industry has none of the requirements that the pharma industry has.

This is the reason why Broc wants to know what level he tested positive for and for that to be public. If it was a high amount, there is no way it was cross contamination. If it was a trace amount, it is highly likely it was cross contamination. It may not fix the issue for Broc, but it could be an indicator as to what happened.

Radical wrote:

This

Question wrote:

I agree on everything here (because my first real work experience from 14 to 19 was to work occasionally in my Dad's business, a lab, which...

I agree on everything here (because my first real work experience from 14 to 19 was to work occasionally in my Dad's business, a lab, which was also selling supplement products in France.

So to the intial question "why would a company not label properly", I can answer easily ; it is NORMAL not to put 100% of your product formula on the label, it is to keep the competitive advantage after having spent spent lots of time and money on development, not to be copied. Do you think you really know the product formula of a CHANEL 5 when you buy it ??? Heck, I even wondered myself dozen of times why my body was much more energetic using RedBull vs. Monster, whereas on the label those 2 products are similar.

TDeath21 wrote:

Riders are tested all the fucking time. They all pass, sans Stewart and now Tickle. I’d bet that >99% of the time the riders pass them...

Riders are tested all the fucking time. They all pass, sans Stewart and now Tickle. I’d bet that >99% of the time the riders pass them. When a rider has not one but TWO samples that test positive for banned substances then they clearly fucked up. They were trying to get a performance boost, whether legally or illegally, and the substance in their system is one that is prohibited. And now he’s gonna do his time. That’s the risk he took when he took this supplement. It helped him on the track but the risk was if he was caught then it was game over. He gambled. He lost. That’s the way it goes.

I will argue all day that 4 Years is too long for a first time offender. But I will not argue the innocence of a rider who tests positive in both samples.