Thoughts on earning extra points...

Zaugg
Profile picture for user Zaugg
Posts
1084
Joined
9/1/2012
Location
Not California, CA US
Zaugg
Edited Date/Time 8/16/2019 11:04am
Follow me here...and let's try to keep it civil.

GIVEN:

-The rules are such that during each moto a rider can earn a maximum of 25 points. (50 pts for the race)

-We also know a 2nd in the first moto is as good as a first if you win the second moto (because the 2nd moto is "weighted" heavier and a 2-1 beats a 1-2)

THE IDEA:

To offer more point opportunities, why not award an extra point (or more) for the guy who wins the race. This provides incentive and reward for riders to want to win the race not just manage the points lead by going 1-2 or 2-1. It also might keep the points closer and provide for better racing near the end of the season.

While we're at it, maybe award a point for being the top qualifier and for running the fastest lap in the second moto (similar justification for the second moto score having more weight. Track is typically tougher.)

Curious to hear everyone's thoughts...

2
|
500 Mike
Profile picture for user 500 Mike
Posts
898
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Kingwood, TX US
500 Mike 8/15/2019 7:09pm
8/15/2019 7:09pm
I'm all for an extra point being awarded for the overall winner.

I could go along with an extra point for fastest qualifier too.

Not sure about the rest...
2
1
KirkChandler
Profile picture for user KirkChandler
Posts
1667
Joined
7/31/2015
Location
Oceanside, CA US
Fantasy
385th
KirkChandler 8/15/2019 7:12pm
8/15/2019 7:12pm
The problem with adding bonus points for winning qualifying, motos, or heat races makes a dominant rider pull away quicker. There were years where Stewart won every heat race, he would have won the championship a week earlier.

When there is parody already in the field is when the points stay close. You can’t manufacture a tight points race without it becoming a gimmick like Nascar.
1
toroP
Profile picture for user toroP
Posts
4216
Joined
4/6/2009
Location
Cincinnati, OH US
toroP 8/15/2019 7:47pm
8/15/2019 7:47pm
If the second moto is a tie breaker, break the tie damn it! Points for the overall. Don’t just say there’s a winner. Let the points show it.
5
kb228
Profile picture for user kb228
Posts
6161
Joined
1/31/2018
Location
Mansfield, OH US
kb228 8/16/2019 3:56am
8/16/2019 3:56am
Im ok with an extra 1 or 2 points for an overall.
2

The Shop

See All »
dirtworldmx 8/16/2019 4:21am
8/16/2019 4:21am
How about points only for overall? Would make the win more meaningful, and keep guys from pulling off if there's no chance of top 20.
Rupert X
Profile picture for user Rupert X
Posts
10048
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Newark, OH US
Rupert X 8/16/2019 4:40am
8/16/2019 4:40am
Extra 100 points if you’re winning the points and,you are on a green bike - and you agree to go to the MXDN and serve your country. Dammit.
4
1
Hoks
Profile picture for user Hoks
Posts
182
Joined
5/5/2019
Location
Moncks Corner, SC US
Hoks 8/16/2019 4:51am
8/16/2019 4:51am
I get the idea on this to keep the points closer, but in this years scenario it would just make the gap bigger co side ring AC has 6 OAs compared to Dylan’s 2, so I don’t know if it would really matter in the long run besides seeing on paper that someone clearly had the win with an extra point.
dickjackson170 8/16/2019 4:59am
8/16/2019 4:59am
Not a fan of top qualifier points. We've all seen what a shit show qualifying is. You have guys on heaters, trying to play frogger around guys cadillacing around. Race points should be just that, during the race, in my opinion.
3
KHI Guy
Profile picture for user KHI Guy
Posts
382
Joined
3/21/2017
Location
Cleveland, OH US
KHI Guy 8/16/2019 5:09am
8/16/2019 5:09am
The thing is, they call the 2nd moto winner the overall winner because they need to make a distinction that someone is the event winner. In essence, a 2-1 and a 1-2 really tied for the day, hence they come away with the came points.

How about this....if you have 2-1 and 1-2 moto finishes (for example), you have a final 1 lap shoot out between the two immediately after the track is cleared from the second moto? You can award, say, 5 points for the shootout winner and then there truly is an overall event winner based off of a better performance on the day. That one lap battle would be epic for spectators. Also, there would situations where someone would race harder the second moto because they wanted to "stay out" of a shootout situation. Conversely, there could be situations where someone in the second moto may want to "lose" a position to therefore force a post race shootout to try and gain more points vs just winning on the day. It could lead to teams and riders having to come up with all kinds of "on the fly" race strategies for points, and it would be really exciting for the spectators.
2
rhargrave431
Profile picture for user rhargrave431
Posts
829
Joined
12/7/2010
Location
Kalispell, MT US
rhargrave431 8/16/2019 5:12am
8/16/2019 5:12am
Formula 1 has went to awarding and extra point for fastest lap of the race, and it seems to be working well.
2
Mavetism
Profile picture for user Mavetism
Posts
2787
Joined
4/15/2019
Location
Hannover DE
Mavetism 8/16/2019 6:10am
8/16/2019 6:10am
rhargrave431 wrote:
Formula 1 has went to awarding and extra point for fastest lap of the race, and it seems to be working well.
Ye, but its really not that easy in mx. Fastest lap always happens in the first 2-3 rounds, after that the track is usually pretty much destroyed.
1
BAMX
Profile picture for user BAMX
Posts
2841
Joined
1/22/2012
Location
Fallbrook, CA US
BAMX 8/16/2019 6:29am
8/16/2019 6:29am
Motocross/Supercross are sports where there tends to be a dominate rider and that causes poor points chases.

You have two choices:

1 Deal with it and enjoy the dominance.
2. Create some ridiculous system like NASCAR where you really have a end of season champion, not a full years champion.
Falcon
Profile picture for user Falcon
Posts
10111
Joined
11/16/2011
Location
Menifee, CA US
Fantasy
798th
Falcon 8/16/2019 9:02am
8/16/2019 9:02am
dirtworldmx wrote:
How about points only for overall? Would make the win more meaningful, and keep guys from pulling off if there's no chance of top 20.
I like this idea, but it would also create lots of situations when riders don't need to pass the guy in front to secure the overall or next position overall. Each moto might suffer in excitement as a result.
1
Zaugg
Profile picture for user Zaugg
Posts
1084
Joined
9/1/2012
Location
Not California, CA US
Zaugg 8/16/2019 10:33am
8/16/2019 10:33am
KirkChandler wrote:
The problem with adding bonus points for winning qualifying, motos, or heat races makes a dominant rider pull away quicker. There were years where Stewart won...
The problem with adding bonus points for winning qualifying, motos, or heat races makes a dominant rider pull away quicker. There were years where Stewart won every heat race, he would have won the championship a week earlier.

When there is parody already in the field is when the points stay close. You can’t manufacture a tight points race without it becoming a gimmick like Nascar.
I see what you're saying but the days of RC, Stewart, RV, RD, etc are behind us. I think we're seeing riders more closely matched up and we're not seeing the same guy having the fastest lap time, fasted lap, and winning the race week in and week out.

Even Tomac has shown to have more than a couple bad days even though on any given weekend he might be the FMOTP. This might give guys like Marvin, Kenny, Zach, and Jason an opportunity to capitalize when the "dominate rider" has one or two bad motos or even races.

Something to think about for sure.

mx 219
Profile picture for user mx 219
Posts
3719
Joined
8/15/2010
Location
South Central, PA US
Fantasy
974th
mx 219 8/16/2019 10:40am
8/16/2019 10:40am
I think it is fine the way it is. Honestly, I thought SX was fine with 1 main event also. Sure the 3 mains are interesting, mostly because the races are shorter so the riders tend to be closer together, but overall I think 1 main is fine and 2 motos is fine. No extra points for qualifying, nor heat races. And tell Monster to pound sand, 26 points for a win is GAY.

25, 22, 20, 18..
Zaugg
Profile picture for user Zaugg
Posts
1084
Joined
9/1/2012
Location
Not California, CA US
Zaugg 8/16/2019 10:41am
8/16/2019 10:41am
dickjackson170 wrote:
Not a fan of top qualifier points. We've all seen what a shit show qualifying is. You have guys on heaters, trying to play frogger around...
Not a fan of top qualifier points. We've all seen what a shit show qualifying is. You have guys on heaters, trying to play frogger around guys cadillacing around. Race points should be just that, during the race, in my opinion.
Qualifying is part of racing. It dictates your gate pick and dictates who gets to race in the main.

The benefit would be to not only get the best gate pick but a bonus point for being top qualifier.

Justin Cooper would be killing it with extra points. haha
Zaugg
Profile picture for user Zaugg
Posts
1084
Joined
9/1/2012
Location
Not California, CA US
Zaugg 8/16/2019 10:45am
8/16/2019 10:45am
KHI Guy wrote:
The thing is, they call the 2nd moto winner the overall winner because they need to make a distinction that [i]someone[/i] is the event winner. In...
The thing is, they call the 2nd moto winner the overall winner because they need to make a distinction that someone is the event winner. In essence, a 2-1 and a 1-2 really tied for the day, hence they come away with the came points.

How about this....if you have 2-1 and 1-2 moto finishes (for example), you have a final 1 lap shoot out between the two immediately after the track is cleared from the second moto? You can award, say, 5 points for the shootout winner and then there truly is an overall event winner based off of a better performance on the day. That one lap battle would be epic for spectators. Also, there would situations where someone would race harder the second moto because they wanted to "stay out" of a shootout situation. Conversely, there could be situations where someone in the second moto may want to "lose" a position to therefore force a post race shootout to try and gain more points vs just winning on the day. It could lead to teams and riders having to come up with all kinds of "on the fly" race strategies for points, and it would be really exciting for the spectators.
How many other sports do this? None. MotoGP, Formula 1, MXGP... Mostly because of time and tv.

I agree it would be epic to see a one on one battle but this idea couldn't be realistically implemented.



Zaugg
Profile picture for user Zaugg
Posts
1084
Joined
9/1/2012
Location
Not California, CA US
Zaugg 8/16/2019 10:47am
8/16/2019 10:47am
rhargrave431 wrote:
Formula 1 has went to awarding and extra point for fastest lap of the race, and it seems to be working well.
That's where the idea came from. It's amazing that the drivers care about that one point but they do and sometimes it comes at the end of the race...because of tires, fuel, and the need to keep the other guy from getting that extra point.

Pit Row

See All »
dickjackson170 8/16/2019 10:47am
8/16/2019 10:47am
dickjackson170 wrote:
Not a fan of top qualifier points. We've all seen what a shit show qualifying is. You have guys on heaters, trying to play frogger around...
Not a fan of top qualifier points. We've all seen what a shit show qualifying is. You have guys on heaters, trying to play frogger around guys cadillacing around. Race points should be just that, during the race, in my opinion.
Zaugg wrote:
Qualifying is part of racing. It dictates your gate pick and dictates who gets to race in the main. The benefit would be to not only...
Qualifying is part of racing. It dictates your gate pick and dictates who gets to race in the main.

The benefit would be to not only get the best gate pick but a bonus point for being top qualifier.

Justin Cooper would be killing it with extra points. haha
I get the thought process, I just don't agree with it. We don't pass out points for winning practice.
hamncheeze
Profile picture for user hamncheeze
Posts
2428
Joined
1/13/2018
Location
British Columbia CA
hamncheeze 8/16/2019 10:51am
8/16/2019 10:51am
Zaugg wrote:
Qualifying is part of racing. It dictates your gate pick and dictates who gets to race in the main. The benefit would be to not only...
Qualifying is part of racing. It dictates your gate pick and dictates who gets to race in the main.

The benefit would be to not only get the best gate pick but a bonus point for being top qualifier.

Justin Cooper would be killing it with extra points. haha
Justin Cooper would also be killing it if he didn't have a "2nd half of the season" fade happening.

I'm not a fan of points for timed qualifying because I do not think it is relevant. Some riders don't stress about getting the hottest lap in, and instead work on the bike settings or a particular section of the track. Look at MXGP, they have timed Q and a 20 minute qualifying race and there are no points awarded there.

Outdoor points are just fine the way it is IMO. SX needs to award a point or 2 for a heat race win, especially since they have gone back to 1-9 transfers. There is not much racing between 3-6 in the average heat race these days. And for the Triple Crown races, I believe there needs to be a points structure for each gangbang, not just the overall.
Zaugg
Profile picture for user Zaugg
Posts
1084
Joined
9/1/2012
Location
Not California, CA US
Zaugg 8/16/2019 10:54am
8/16/2019 10:54am
mx 219 wrote:
I think it is fine the way it is. Honestly, I thought SX was fine with 1 main event also. Sure the 3 mains are interesting...
I think it is fine the way it is. Honestly, I thought SX was fine with 1 main event also. Sure the 3 mains are interesting, mostly because the races are shorter so the riders tend to be closer together, but overall I think 1 main is fine and 2 motos is fine. No extra points for qualifying, nor heat races. And tell Monster to pound sand, 26 points for a win is GAY.

25, 22, 20, 18..
Not suggesting 26 points per moto...nor am I suggesting MX move to a 1-moto format.

You're injecting SX points issues into an MX discussion which doesn't translate because MX determines the winner with 2 motos not a single main event.

For what it's worth, I agree that 26 points in SX doesn't make sense...
Zaugg
Profile picture for user Zaugg
Posts
1084
Joined
9/1/2012
Location
Not California, CA US
Zaugg 8/16/2019 11:00am
8/16/2019 11:00am
hamncheeze wrote:
Justin Cooper would also be killing it if he didn't have a "2nd half of the season" fade happening. I'm not a fan of points for...
Justin Cooper would also be killing it if he didn't have a "2nd half of the season" fade happening.

I'm not a fan of points for timed qualifying because I do not think it is relevant. Some riders don't stress about getting the hottest lap in, and instead work on the bike settings or a particular section of the track. Look at MXGP, they have timed Q and a 20 minute qualifying race and there are no points awarded there.

Outdoor points are just fine the way it is IMO. SX needs to award a point or 2 for a heat race win, especially since they have gone back to 1-9 transfers. There is not much racing between 3-6 in the average heat race these days. And for the Triple Crown races, I believe there needs to be a points structure for each gangbang, not just the overall.
Not talking about SX. MX and SX are two totally different racing structures. (We can fix SX in another thread. haha)

Again these are just ideas. The main idea being to award an extra point for the guy who wins the race.

The other point opportunities were just ideas to kick around.

It's pretty cool to hear what people think.
camstop22
Profile picture for user camstop22
Posts
50
Joined
3/31/2019
Location
Easton, PA US
camstop22 8/16/2019 11:04am
8/16/2019 11:04am
I think an extra point should be given only if first and second overall went 2-1. 1-2. Receiving the same points for second place doesn’t seem right.
1
mx 219
Profile picture for user mx 219
Posts
3719
Joined
8/15/2010
Location
South Central, PA US
Fantasy
974th
mx 219 8/16/2019 11:16am
8/16/2019 11:16am
mx 219 wrote:
I think it is fine the way it is. Honestly, I thought SX was fine with 1 main event also. Sure the 3 mains are interesting...
I think it is fine the way it is. Honestly, I thought SX was fine with 1 main event also. Sure the 3 mains are interesting, mostly because the races are shorter so the riders tend to be closer together, but overall I think 1 main is fine and 2 motos is fine. No extra points for qualifying, nor heat races. And tell Monster to pound sand, 26 points for a win is GAY.

25, 22, 20, 18..
Zaugg wrote:
Not suggesting 26 points per moto...nor am I suggesting MX move to a 1-moto format. You're injecting SX points issues into an MX discussion which doesn't...
Not suggesting 26 points per moto...nor am I suggesting MX move to a 1-moto format.

You're injecting SX points issues into an MX discussion which doesn't translate because MX determines the winner with 2 motos not a single main event.

For what it's worth, I agree that 26 points in SX doesn't make sense...
My point was, why does it need to change?

My suggestion, no points changes, no format changes. Not broke, don't fix it.
Zaugg
Profile picture for user Zaugg
Posts
1084
Joined
9/1/2012
Location
Not California, CA US
Zaugg 8/16/2019 11:26am
8/16/2019 11:26am
Not saying it's broke.

I'm suggesting we discuss ways to improve the points system.

Your position is the sport doesn't need improvement. That's your opinion.

Again, interesting to hear everyone's perspective.


Zaugg
Profile picture for user Zaugg
Posts
1084
Joined
9/1/2012
Location
Not California, CA US
Zaugg 8/16/2019 11:30am
8/16/2019 11:30am
camstop22 wrote:
I think an extra point should be given only if first and second overall went 2-1. 1-2. Receiving the same points for second place doesn’t seem...
I think an extra point should be given only if first and second overall went 2-1. 1-2. Receiving the same points for second place doesn’t seem right.
Not really sure what you're saying...my apologies.

Second place overall wouldn't get a point just the racer who won the overall.

KHI Guy
Profile picture for user KHI Guy
Posts
382
Joined
3/21/2017
Location
Cleveland, OH US
KHI Guy 8/16/2019 6:47pm
8/16/2019 6:47pm
KHI Guy wrote:
The thing is, they call the 2nd moto winner the overall winner because they need to make a distinction that [i]someone[/i] is the event winner. In...
The thing is, they call the 2nd moto winner the overall winner because they need to make a distinction that someone is the event winner. In essence, a 2-1 and a 1-2 really tied for the day, hence they come away with the came points.

How about this....if you have 2-1 and 1-2 moto finishes (for example), you have a final 1 lap shoot out between the two immediately after the track is cleared from the second moto? You can award, say, 5 points for the shootout winner and then there truly is an overall event winner based off of a better performance on the day. That one lap battle would be epic for spectators. Also, there would situations where someone would race harder the second moto because they wanted to "stay out" of a shootout situation. Conversely, there could be situations where someone in the second moto may want to "lose" a position to therefore force a post race shootout to try and gain more points vs just winning on the day. It could lead to teams and riders having to come up with all kinds of "on the fly" race strategies for points, and it would be really exciting for the spectators.
Zaugg wrote:
How many other sports do this? None. MotoGP, Formula 1, MXGP... Mostly because of time and tv. I agree it would be epic to see a...
How many other sports do this? None. MotoGP, Formula 1, MXGP... Mostly because of time and tv.

I agree it would be epic to see a one on one battle but this idea couldn't be realistically implemented.



It wouldn't take much time at all. Go right back to the starting line when the moto was over. Couple of minutes to clear the track, 2+ minutes to run one lap....You're right though, it would never happen.

Post a reply to: Thoughts on earning extra points...