Thoughts on RaceX post. "Room at the top"

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7/10/2017 1:48 PM

Have just seen this photo on IG, and it makes me wonder about the current 'top crop.'
I really don't see any of the current lites riders having that much leverage, none of them are stand out riders in my opinion. AC is currently sat in 7th in the championship for example! I've yet to see any real flash of utter brilliance from him, and I would say the same about most of the lites riders currently. There are a few notable rides every now and then, but nobody this year has shown that 'glimmer' of brilliance, not like you used to get in previous years.

You could say the class is so stacked etc etc nobody has a chance to show it, but I don't buy that, class is stacked every year! Well done on Zacho this season, but that's not 'brilliance' in my opinion, that's years and years of hard work meeting opportunity, I really hope he wins the title, but it doesn't impress me that much, like previous champions.

Here's my two cent anyway!

Flame on!

Photo

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7/10/2017 1:51 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/10/2017 1:52 PM

Out of that class I think Plessinger and JMart will be the best on a 450.

I assume forkner will improve also and possibly be the next guy although I expected him to be a little better overall this year.

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7/10/2017 1:55 PM

Plessinger is the one i would be throwing $$$ at, he has skills , and i feel his crashing is down to being too big for the 250 and having to try and drag it round.

AC may be the same, but its too close to call,

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7/10/2017 2:00 PM

I believe Forkner will be very good in the coming years, he's kind of taken a step back compared to last year but I'm a believer

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7/10/2017 2:06 PM

Osborne is really starting to take command in the 250 class. He believes in himself and makes it happen every weekend. That's the mark of a guy who is ready for 450s.

After that, it's JMart or AMart. Plessinger is right on the fence for me.

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Braaapin' aint easy.

7/10/2017 2:52 PM

Falcon wrote:

Osborne is really starting to take command in the 250 class. He believes in himself and makes it happen every weekend. That's the mark of a guy who is ready for 450s.

After that, it's JMart or AMart. Plessinger is right on the fence for me.

I dont see him riding a 450 well..like Barcia he is a revver he is already older than Dungey, he will get a 2 year deal maybe, he will pushing 30 by the time that is up.

That said , he did say in SX he had been told to stop caning the bike so much and had noticed the improvement in lap times, pity he didnt do that over here, Steve Dixon might not have needed to buy crankcases every 3 meetings.

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7/10/2017 3:05 PM

philG wrote:

I dont see him riding a 450 well..like Barcia he is a revver he is already older than Dungey, he will get a 2 year deal maybe, he will pushing 30 by the time that is up.

That said , he did say in SX he had been told to stop caning the bike so much and had noticed the improvement in lap times, pity he didnt do that over here, Steve Dixon might not have needed to buy crankcases every 3 meetings.

Has he ridden a 450 before? While Ricky and all them were short, it seems zachos legs are shorter than all the others. Looks like he barely gets off the seat on the 250.

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7/10/2017 4:25 PM

motokawi818 wrote:

Has he ridden a 450 before? While Ricky and all them were short, it seems zachos legs are shorter than all the others. Looks like he barely gets off the seat on the 250.

I dont think so, unless he rode one for Peurto Rico in the nations.. dont get me wrong, he has skills , but if he was RC level, he wouldnt have to have bailed with no ride to Europe, and still be on a 250 at 28. He said he didnt want to ride a 450 in europe , and thats why he came back, and its taken him 4 seasons to be top dog,

The article will be interesting, there are a lot of guys on borrowed time in the 450 class , Barcia at JGR, maybe Canard at KTM, and then you have Reed, Millsaps, Brayton, Alessi all doing half a season, Stewart's playing at it, none of them are getting any younger either.

When you think of who HAS to come up, only Hill has said he will be on a 450 next season, and based on his outdoors , i dont see him worth binning Grant off for, and if they do, i dont see Josh being without a ride, he has been a good performer this year, and has to be worth a seat .

RCH look steady, Tickle was ok till he got hurt , Bogle has upped his game, but they need someone, top line, and i dont see anyone better available, than those guys who would go there.

Yamaha need a proper team to take the pressure off Webb , he doesnt have the skills to develop a 450, and the weight of doing it will drown him, and if Plessinger comes ( which i think he should while there is a seat, before Ferrandis gets it ) i think he could put Cooper under a lot pressure, but thats good pressure.

Honda has Craig and Seeley till Roczen comes back , both solid,, and again , i dont see anyone in the Geico rig that will fill the space better.

Husky is solid with Anderson and Wilson, and Davalos, i'm guessing Osborne running 450 will be cheaper than a 250.

Bagget will stay put, and i think Bloss will come back and be good, and Millsaps SX only suits them .

I really dont see Canard making another season, which with Dungey and Marvin in 450 wasnt a problem , but now, they look weak, its all on Marvin, with nobody to back it up , and none of the 250 guys at Troy Lee is going to fill that spot , unless they take a punt an A Mart.

For the first time in ages , i dont see a ' next guy ' .. a new Dungey or RC or RV, just a load of regular guys , Forkner has had a less than stellar start to his pro career ( based on his amateur promise) , and AC has been just eking out race finishes..


And Jake Weimer still has no ride, which is a bust, he should come do GP's , they would suit him.

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7/10/2017 4:32 PM

I just don't have a lot of faith in Plessinger anymore. I would love to see him be the next big thing but honestly he just crashes way too much and he's entirely too inconsistent.

If I had to take a guess, I think Ferrandis will only get better here in the USA and could compete for championships. He's gotta limit his mistake though, obviously. I don't see any rider in 250s matching Tomac, Anderson, Musquin and (hopefully) Roczen when he returns.

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7/10/2017 4:37 PM

I'd like to see Forkner go to KTM.

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7/10/2017 4:40 PM

The thing is no one really predicted in 2008 that Dungey would be the 450 SX and National Champion in 2010. And that Reed and Stewart who had dominated championships leading up to 2010 would not win another title (unless somehow they can comeback and win in 18).

One or two of these current 250 guys will be "the guy" in a year or two.

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7/10/2017 5:34 PM

Can someone explain what Weege is saying? I have no clue what leverage AC has gained in 450 contract talks. He's doing what he needs to do to get back but he isn't "back" yet.

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7/10/2017 6:13 PM

JMart did pretty well at Daytona, 2nd place for his first and only Pro 450 race...

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7/10/2017 6:18 PM

Because of their size I'm going with AC and AP as the next 2 top guys.
Part of ACs problems this year are the PC bikes blowing up, if he stays healthy for a couple years, he's got ludicrous speed!

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7/10/2017 6:24 PM

kkawboy14 wrote:

Because of their size I'm going with AC and AP as the next 2 top guys.
Part of ACs problems this year are the PC bikes blowing up, if he stays healthy for a couple years, he's got ludicrous speed!

He has a riding style that I wouldn't think would suit a 450. He's pretty Agro

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7/10/2017 6:29 PM

kkawboy14 wrote:

Because of their size I'm going with AC and AP as the next 2 top guys.
Part of ACs problems this year are the PC bikes blowing up, if he stays healthy for a couple years, he's got ludicrous speed!

Sodipop wrote:

He has a riding style that I wouldn't think would suit a 450. He's pretty Agro

Tomac is pretty Agro and it's working pretty good for him

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7/10/2017 6:56 PM

On the topic of Osborne, A Mart or any 450 class rookie who may struggle due to their size...

Could it be beneficial to ride a rookie 450 season on a 350? Kind of like that transition step between 85 and a 250f with a 125. He won't be expected to set the world on fire as a rookie so it's more about getting acclimated and getting through an entire 29 race season healthy. Then go 450 your sophomore year. Not sure how that bike has progressed since its shunning by Cairoli.

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7/10/2017 6:59 PM

Man, after last years nationals and his performance at the Charlotte GP I thought Forkner would be a force. What's happened? I like the guys story but he's not moving in the right direction, of course those PC bikes have had a problem for sure this year and Joey Savatgy? WTH is up with Savagty?

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7/10/2017 7:00 PM

kkawboy14 wrote:

Because of their size I'm going with AC and AP as the next 2 top guys.
Part of ACs problems this year are the PC bikes blowing up, if he stays healthy for a couple years, he's got ludicrous speed!

Sodipop wrote:

He has a riding style that I wouldn't think would suit a 450. He's pretty Agro

kkawboy14 wrote:

Tomac is pretty Agro and it's working pretty good for him

That's true about Tomac, but he won a lot of races as a 25 rider. Not too many guys all of a sudden find their speed in the 450 class.

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Epstein Barr is a form of the Herpes Virus.

7/10/2017 7:23 PM

Zach should do well on 450. Craig shows flashes of speed on a 450 but cant seem to put the package together.

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7/10/2017 7:41 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/10/2017 7:54 PM

Rockinar wrote:

Zach should do well on 450. Craig shows flashes of speed on a 450 but cant seem to put the package together.

Honda......

Honestly if I was a pro, Honda would be the last 450 bike I would ride!

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7/10/2017 7:45 PM

As far a "250 guy" who is "gaining leverage," I'd have to say Christian Craig. He had an absolute DOG SHIT sx season, but is showing that he has the speed to be a top 5 450 guy.

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7/10/2017 7:51 PM

philG wrote:

I dont see him riding a 450 well..like Barcia he is a revver he is already older than Dungey, he will get a 2 year deal maybe, he will pushing 30 by the time that is up.

That said , he did say in SX he had been told to stop caning the bike so much and had noticed the improvement in lap times, pity he didnt do that over here, Steve Dixon might not have needed to buy crankcases every 3 meetings.

motokawi818 wrote:

Has he ridden a 450 before? While Ricky and all them were short, it seems zachos legs are shorter than all the others. Looks like he barely gets off the seat on the 250.

philG wrote:

I dont think so, unless he rode one for Peurto Rico in the nations.. dont get me wrong, he has skills , but if he was RC level, he wouldnt have to have bailed with no ride to Europe, and still be on a 250 at 28. He said he didnt want to ride a 450 in europe , and thats why he came back, and its taken him 4 seasons to be top dog,

The article will be interesting, there are a lot of guys on borrowed time in the 450 class , Barcia at JGR, maybe Canard at KTM, and then you have Reed, Millsaps, Brayton, Alessi all doing half a season, Stewart's playing at it, none of them are getting any younger either.

When you think of who HAS to come up, only Hill has said he will be on a 450 next season, and based on his outdoors , i dont see him worth binning Grant off for, and if they do, i dont see Josh being without a ride, he has been a good performer this year, and has to be worth a seat .

RCH look steady, Tickle was ok till he got hurt , Bogle has upped his game, but they need someone, top line, and i dont see anyone better available, than those guys who would go there.

Yamaha need a proper team to take the pressure off Webb , he doesnt have the skills to develop a 450, and the weight of doing it will drown him, and if Plessinger comes ( which i think he should while there is a seat, before Ferrandis gets it ) i think he could put Cooper under a lot pressure, but thats good pressure.

Honda has Craig and Seeley till Roczen comes back , both solid,, and again , i dont see anyone in the Geico rig that will fill the space better.

Husky is solid with Anderson and Wilson, and Davalos, i'm guessing Osborne running 450 will be cheaper than a 250.

Bagget will stay put, and i think Bloss will come back and be good, and Millsaps SX only suits them .

I really dont see Canard making another season, which with Dungey and Marvin in 450 wasnt a problem , but now, they look weak, its all on Marvin, with nobody to back it up , and none of the 250 guys at Troy Lee is going to fill that spot , unless they take a punt an A Mart.

For the first time in ages , i dont see a ' next guy ' .. a new Dungey or RC or RV, just a load of regular guys , Forkner has had a less than stellar start to his pro career ( based on his amateur promise) , and AC has been just eking out race finishes..


And Jake Weimer still has no ride, which is a bust, he should come do GP's , they would suit him.

Word on the street is there will be no room at Yamaha next year at least.
They needed a good development rider for the new bike and someone capable of good results, lets just say they are already busy printing up number 111 backgrounds.

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7/10/2017 7:51 PM

The key ingredient in 450's is SX ability. Outdoors is kind of mehh.. To be the next big thing you must be a contender in SX. Now, is it the same guys? Probably.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

7/10/2017 7:52 PM

Rockinar wrote:

Zach should do well on 450. Craig shows flashes of speed on a 450 but cant seem to put the package together.

kkawboy14 wrote:

Honda......

Honestly if I was a pro, Honda would be the last 450 bike I would ride!

It's awesome the success Zach has had this year. He is older than Dungey by a few months. How long he has in the 450 class, only time will tell. He seems pretty fresh though.

Kkawboy, What are you implying?

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7/10/2017 7:57 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/10/2017 7:58 PM

Rockinar wrote:

Zach should do well on 450. Craig shows flashes of speed on a 450 but cant seem to put the package together.

kkawboy14 wrote:

Honda......

Honestly if I was a pro, Honda would be the last 450 bike I would ride!

Dan-The-Man wrote:

It's awesome the success Zach has had this year. He is older than Dungey by a few months. How long he has in the 450 class, only time will tell. He seems pretty fresh though.

Kkawboy, What are you implying?

He said Craig can't seem to put the package together, I think it's because he is on a Honda. Their 450s just seem to have something that bites riders bad, if I was a Pro, Honda would be the last bike I would want to be on. Having said that I personally believe that Honda has the best fit and finish of all the bikes sitting in the show room!

Craig on a KX or RM......braaap

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7/10/2017 10:58 PM

motokawi818 wrote:

Has he ridden a 450 before? While Ricky and all them were short, it seems zachos legs are shorter than all the others. Looks like he barely gets off the seat on the 250.

philG wrote:

I dont think so, unless he rode one for Peurto Rico in the nations.. dont get me wrong, he has skills , but if he was RC level, he wouldnt have to have bailed with no ride to Europe, and still be on a 250 at 28. He said he didnt want to ride a 450 in europe , and thats why he came back, and its taken him 4 seasons to be top dog,

The article will be interesting, there are a lot of guys on borrowed time in the 450 class , Barcia at JGR, maybe Canard at KTM, and then you have Reed, Millsaps, Brayton, Alessi all doing half a season, Stewart's playing at it, none of them are getting any younger either.

When you think of who HAS to come up, only Hill has said he will be on a 450 next season, and based on his outdoors , i dont see him worth binning Grant off for, and if they do, i dont see Josh being without a ride, he has been a good performer this year, and has to be worth a seat .

RCH look steady, Tickle was ok till he got hurt , Bogle has upped his game, but they need someone, top line, and i dont see anyone better available, than those guys who would go there.

Yamaha need a proper team to take the pressure off Webb , he doesnt have the skills to develop a 450, and the weight of doing it will drown him, and if Plessinger comes ( which i think he should while there is a seat, before Ferrandis gets it ) i think he could put Cooper under a lot pressure, but thats good pressure.

Honda has Craig and Seeley till Roczen comes back , both solid,, and again , i dont see anyone in the Geico rig that will fill the space better.

Husky is solid with Anderson and Wilson, and Davalos, i'm guessing Osborne running 450 will be cheaper than a 250.

Bagget will stay put, and i think Bloss will come back and be good, and Millsaps SX only suits them .

I really dont see Canard making another season, which with Dungey and Marvin in 450 wasnt a problem , but now, they look weak, its all on Marvin, with nobody to back it up , and none of the 250 guys at Troy Lee is going to fill that spot , unless they take a punt an A Mart.

For the first time in ages , i dont see a ' next guy ' .. a new Dungey or RC or RV, just a load of regular guys , Forkner has had a less than stellar start to his pro career ( based on his amateur promise) , and AC has been just eking out race finishes..


And Jake Weimer still has no ride, which is a bust, he should come do GP's , they would suit him.

inthebadboycorner wrote:

Word on the street is there will be no room at Yamaha next year at least.
They needed a good development rider for the new bike and someone capable of good results, lets just say they are already busy printing up number 111 backgrounds.

Im slow sometimes, #111?

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7/11/2017 12:03 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/11/2017 12:07 AM

inthebadboycorner wrote:

Word on the street is there will be no room at Yamaha next year at least.
They needed a good development rider for the new bike and someone capable of good results, lets just say they are already busy printing up number 111 backgrounds.

So u are suggesting Ferris gets a factory 450 ride??
any substance to your rumour??
be awesome if its true- but big call..

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7/11/2017 1:07 AM

Dave #125 wrote:

So u are suggesting Ferris gets a factory 450 ride??
any substance to your rumour??
be awesome if its true- but big call..

Man He's destroying everyone here in Aus right now and had an unreal 1st moto at high point. Seems unlikely that Yamaha would sign him straight onto a factory 450 but who knows he clearly has the speed and seems like Reed is already shopping for a ride for 2018, Is plessinger even looking to move into the open class next year?

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7/11/2017 4:47 AM

Roger decoster will be walking around lorettas this year in a pair of groucho glasses trying to find the next Ryan dungey

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