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Obviously I don't want every flagger to walk onto track when there is an incident but on a blind jump like this we require someone with a brain to direct riders away from the hazard.
The problem also lies with the riders IMO, they just carry on like there aren't even flags.
I cringe every single time when riders just keep on jumping under yellow flags when there's a bike (and in worse cases a rider) on the track.
Fucking unbelievable.
http://www.pulpmx.com/sites/default/files/podcasts/170604_weigandt.mp3
Aaron Plessinger and the flaggers together unknowingly guide the riders right to the downed bike. I too was screaming at the TV. Maybe the blue shirt flagger, the guy swatting bees, should have been up the track a bit, before the jump. Hindsight is always 20/20, and at least we don’t have 4 wheelers crossing the track taking out riders like Robbie Reynard anymore.
The Shop
Too many times the flaggers stand right on top of the incident instead of moving up-track as much as feasible to keep an eye on the incident but give as much advance warning to the approaching riders as possible. The guy in the headset probably should have sent blue shirt upstream a bit for some early warning. From the TV coverage you couldn't see what, if anything, as going on ahead of the jump, so maybe there was some early warning going on up there. But from the racers' approach speed, it didn't seem so. And maybe that goes back to the posts about riders not giving the yellow the proper respect.
So many things went wrong there, and it's easy to armchair quarterback it. Thank God no one was more seriously impacted.
No, they weren't, but a local paramedic/security person who did not know or his father Terry told them they had to get off the infield because they didn't have passes. We knew nothing about it until Nick texted me.
We have enough Wheels on the Ground flag, but you don't put 40 of them out there because each time someone waves one and it's not obeyed, there are protests and penalties. It can get confusing in a hurry. There was someone on the radio trying to direct the situation but they were down in the announcer's tower, below the crash, and they could not have seen or understand what was going on like we could on TV.
It was an unusual place to crash, and AP being on one side of the track, his bike in the middle and the flaggers on the other side just added confusion to the situation, because they were all basically directing people into the middle, which is exactly where the bike was. And the jump being steep to the inside meant that a flagger could not station himself on the left side of the track. Maybe they can address situations like that by tractoring in a level place for them to stand... And I would have done exactly what Nick did (and he's no "random spectator" who grabbed a flag, but a lifelong rider/racer who has been around many, many crashes in his life, and did what he could out of instinct). Flaggers are told to stay off the track until it's all clear, but with the entire pack coming behind Plessinger, that also compounded the situation. We will be looking at this all day in the office, thanks for the suggestions...
#1, we need the riders to actually use caution when they see the yellow.
And we have got to get guys waving towels off the track, though had Chad been up where AP crashed, I'm guessing he would have done exactly what Nick did too.
DC
Racer X
If riders aren't going to slow, which they don't, then I don't expect a flagger to risk his neck , if they do then you get out there and do the best you can .
I promise you every person on here that is blaming the flagger and screaming about safety, look the other way when their local track needs someone to flag to keep people safe.
Riders can either slow down and check up a bit or risk a crash for not exhibiting caution when they see a yellow flag.
In no way do I think the expectation should be flaggers should enter the track in any way that may be unsafe. You have heavy ass machines coming at you at high speeds. And they don't give a shit about your yellow flag apparently.
Frankly, yellow flags should only be used when there is a true danger, like in the AP crash yesterday. Part of the problem is for every little nit of an issue they wave the yellow flag. It's basically lost all meaning. A guy crashes in the corner, everyone can see him, but they start waving the yellow flag a full two sections ahead of it. I mean the guy is in no danger, the riders can all see a rider washed out in the corner. Why wave the yellow flag?
I say restrain from using yellow for only when there is true danger. That way riders will actually use more caution instead of just blasting on through a section when yellow flag is waving.
Optimally, Plessinger runs to the top of the jump so he can see. One flagger enters the track with his flag out directing traiffic away from the downed bike. Second flagger grabs bike off the track and pulls it to the side. When an opening presents itself, AP runs across the track and remounts with his bike.
Idk the rules on touching the bikes etc but everything was working against itself in that situation.
Jimmi also explained that he got hit at Glen Helen while stepping out in a different type of situation. Flagging is not easy, and while it's easy for any of us to come on here and discuss what we would have done, we may not understand the whole situation, the whole lay of the land, and what is being said in the radios and around the other officials.
He also said only two or three guys really slowed down, and while he's been around racing his whole life, he had never met Nick Wey before and didn't realize that was him who came to help. Like all of us, he's just glad everyone was okay and wants to help learn from this and try to prevent it from happening again.
DC
Racer X
DC
Racer X
Pit Row
b. Warning Flags:
i. Yellow Flag: Indicates a potentially hazardous situation on or near the racetrack. Riders must exercise
caution. Passing is allowed.
You might want to think about being a little more explicit on what exercise caution means.Under the current rule, what should they do on a yellow as you interpret this expansive rule? Nothing tells them to slow down, nothing says don't pass, in fact it says passing is allowed. Until the flagging is fixed and the rules are fixed nothing will change. Davey even said himself he didn't want 40 tires on the ground flags around the track. This is a terrible position and stated that it would generate protests. So what? Sorry your live tv is more precious. It's like motocross is stuck in the dark ages.
I agree we need to discuss what "exercise caution" means but I disagree on adding 40 Wheels on the Ground flags, because they ARE on the ground most of the time... I've been around quite a few races and quite a few different situations like this, but this is the first time I can remember most riders not slowing down at all, and a rider being out on the track pointing people the opposite way of the two flaggers and adding to the confusion. We will learn from it, just as we try to do from everything else. I doubt that's good enough for you, Triton, but it's all I can do.
DC
Racer X
How would I fix it? There are already quite a few good suggestions in this thread. 1st - professionally trained flagging staff that go race to race. It would create consistency and accountability. 2nd - technology. There is lots of new tech out there that can be added to help in caution situations, mainly lights that a head ref or safety person or persons can trigger. 3rd - In helmet communication for safety only. Only MX Sports can broadcast one direction to let the riders know of a caution situation. It would allow more detailed information to be given and at what level they should take caution. 4th - Clarify the rules, get specific. These are professional guys "most"
Any one of those could have fixed what happened in my opinion. I'm not questioning your experience. That would be silly but sometimes it is easy to get stuck in the same vision, that is all. I do appreciate what you do and continue to do. I just see this as an opportunity to make progress in a very important area.
Thanks for hearing me.
1) You're a pussy if you complain about bad flaggers unless you're in a direct position of influence.
2) You're a pussy if you complain about what flaggers have been told, despite what common sense dictates.
3) You're NOT a pussy if you just stand on the side of the track waving a flag and watching mayhem unfold.
4) You get what you pay for; or don't pay for in this case. "Garbage in becomes garbage out" comes to mind.
5) TV dictates amateur flagging decisions... somehow?
6) AMA officials who flag have NO decision making skills above that of a rent-a-flagger.
I don't care what I've been told. If I'm there I creep out in to the track as much as I can and point across. The last thing I could ever live with is someone cresting a blind jump and impaling themselves on the handlebar of an arrant bike because I just stood there waving a piece of cloth like a lemming.
AP was definitely messing the directions up because of what he was doing!
Plessinger didn't help though. He wasn't necessarily on the edge of the track so it's also dangerous to push traffic towards him. There was maybe a 3-4 foot gap between him and the bike and then another 3-4 feet between the bike and the far edge of the track.Small window to thread when you can't see the land mine on the other side.
Post a reply to: Those flaggers don't know how to flag