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jeffro503
2/24/2013 10:52am
2/24/2013 10:52am
Edited Date/Time
2/27/2013 6:15am
The start is a huge factor.
BUT......it always has been......just not as important as it is now days. It all goes hand in hand with these tracks. There is nothing out there that is really separating the men from the boys.......lap times from 1st -10th......is usually split by about 1 second. What?.......it used to be separated by a good 4-6sec a lap.
Easy-fast tracks that seem to be one lined and hard to pass on unless you really force it.....like Arenacross. ( except AX is slower )
Where the hell are these big technical tracks with timing sections that have 5 different ways to go through them? There is nothing out there to separate these guys.
I know this is an exaggeration.......but if a beginner drag races a pro down a logging road.......the beginner has a good chance at winning. They make the tracks this easy (bland).......and everyone goes the same speed.......everyone does all the obstacles the same way.
Where the hell are the bigger "thinking man's" type tracks?
Want safer tracks?........put more obstacles in.......to slow them down a bit. Get some shit out there that separates the men from the boys and gets them "thinking" a little!
I enjoyed watching the race last night......just like all of them. But honestly.......I felt like I was watching paint dry.
BUT......it always has been......just not as important as it is now days. It all goes hand in hand with these tracks. There is nothing out there that is really separating the men from the boys.......lap times from 1st -10th......is usually split by about 1 second. What?.......it used to be separated by a good 4-6sec a lap.
Easy-fast tracks that seem to be one lined and hard to pass on unless you really force it.....like Arenacross. ( except AX is slower )
Where the hell are these big technical tracks with timing sections that have 5 different ways to go through them? There is nothing out there to separate these guys.
I know this is an exaggeration.......but if a beginner drag races a pro down a logging road.......the beginner has a good chance at winning. They make the tracks this easy (bland).......and everyone goes the same speed.......everyone does all the obstacles the same way.
Where the hell are the bigger "thinking man's" type tracks?
Want safer tracks?........put more obstacles in.......to slow them down a bit. Get some shit out there that separates the men from the boys and gets them "thinking" a little!
I enjoyed watching the race last night......just like all of them. But honestly.......I felt like I was watching paint dry.
hell there has been "real racing this year" also.
safer tracks make better races tracks.
I think we'd all like to see better courses, more variation, and alternate lines, but there's only so much they can do.
I agree about putting in some slower obstacles to bring the pace down and force these guys to find a way to go fast rather than flat out triple triple straights.
When does the outdoor series start again?
The Shop
Both classes were lead from start to finish by the person who got the start. I don't really consider that good racing.
Excellent post and I couldn't agree more. Slowing them down a bit would also get us close to minute lap times which is a major sore point with me. Given the cost of tickets fans should see 15 minutes of 250 action and 20 minutes of 450 action.
I couldn't disagree more that safer tracks equal boring tracks.
Instead of bowl turn after bowl turn how about throwing in some gnarly off camber turns and more flat turns? Put the emphasis on riding skills rather than timing. Few years ago at Altanta they had a few flat corners and it provided some of the best racing in both classes that season.
I wonder how much all the section timing and team analysis is affecting the riders' intuition. I watched the segment on Alessi and Mike Genova and all of their discussions, and they were saying, "If Mike doesn't jump that, he's screwed." If the rider is getting feedback like that all the time, all the riders are naturally going to wind up with the same rhythms and lines in corners. Teams have always given riders some feedback but these days it's so specific and so data driven that it short circuits the riders' intuitive feel about lines. Too much science will ruin an art form, for sure.
But they are short races and I recognize that they're trying to get more exposure further back.
And again....I love the live coverage , I love the racing and so forth......just seems to be missing some things.
FWIW.....when I ran an AX track up here in the NW , I made track changes weekly. When my bosses forced me to smooth things out and make all the sections "easy" and "fast".......my injury rate went through the roof. Riders blowing through fences ) When he gave me the go ahead to put in 70' triples , big timing sections , flat deep tilled corners and so forth.....it slowed the slower riders down.....and gave the fast guys a little more of a challenge. My injury rate.....went down!
Some people tend to think......an easy fast track is safer......when it isn't in most cases......it just ups the speed of "all" the riders". Putting in some hairy shit gets riders to think a little more , and use their creative side.
Another words.......separating the men from boys is just a term I used.....but in reality.....it does exactly that.
What was it....2008 or 2009 when Larocco and TP199 designed a few? Those were two of the best tracks I have ever seen!
We need more rider designed tracks!
Practice times aren't all that different from race results... more options on the track wouldn't change that. If you add more options they'll all figure out the fastest one and use the same.
Why is Bowers the only one able to make passes in AX? He's just that much better than the rest and makes shit happen. Everyone is so close in the top 8 in SX but we've been through 8 rounds and there's a pattern in the results... so tracks aren't an issue. It's just the reality of a stacked field. I bet if Millsaps wasn't up front everything would appear 'normal' to everyone.
Remember when Dungey passed 10 guys in 3 laps in the LCQ and then he couldn't pass Albertson? It was totally because of the track. I guess it changed during the race and the passing options disappeared. C'mon people..face reality
Pit Row
i've been recording my old archive and the tracks even late 90's early Y2K were much more technical and had elements to seperate the top from mid pack guys..
The biggest thing that has stood out to me this year is every dude on the podium saying how hard packed and slick the track is, every track!!! To me that is a very big issue....they are creating this freeway with bowl turns and jumps. No traction, no line options and a big game of follow the leader for a few minutes. I am a big fan of slowing the race down (Giving us more bang for the buck) and changing up the dirt. I am not talking about the sand sections they throw here and there, but acutally making some traction out there. Seriously, it is like a damn free way with jumps!
Amend the soil to keep it fluffy, create lines and get back to the roots a bit.....oh wait, that would mean roost and Monster logos getting covered up....can't have that!
The Outdoors is real moto, that is where the boys are seperated from the men and there is actual soil, lines, and racing. SX has lost the core roots from when it was created.
Its a pretty simple concept, if we want better racing, tracks need fewer jumps into turns, fewer big jumps out of turns, more turns period, and remove the whoops all together. Get rid of the "sand section" too.
How many of you guys were there? That track was not boring in person. Maybe it was on TV but if you'd been there and watched the Lites A,B,C divisions you could see just how difficult the track was and how many lines were available. The line down the sideline that started with the dragon's back had at least three combinations. In fact, RV and Bubba ran two separate combos all night. It didn't look like one was much faster than the other, it just took more commitment. The six pack after going backwards down the start straight also had three different lines that were all used in qualifying. Then there was the sand section. I've always thought they were lame but yesterday I've never seen so many people fall or stall in one area of a track.
The big difference looked to me to be that all the heavy hitters are here and all riding well. The little advantages James had were whoop speed and making time through the corners. That's racing to me. All the top guys are going to catch on to the best combos every week. How fast they go through them depends on the rider's commitment. Last night, they happened to start in the same order of speed and pretty much rode single file all night. Sorry the TV show was boring but the event was really good in person. For me at least.
everyone does the same thing on these bikes, no one makes hard passes
But really, the bikes are so damn fast, the riders can jump everything, they mellow the tracks out and we get more follow the leader racing where it's F1, down to tenths, and no mistakes...
4 strokes man... Label me a crazy person, they're a superior bike, no question, but the racing isn't as fun to watch
I think this is the problem right here!
The 450's can jump anything with a twist of the throttle and all that horse power would tear up a track real quick if it wasn't for them prepping the track like concrete.
I guess we're stuck with it now though, glad I was there to see the good days of SX.
Once upon a time, F1 took slicks away... Maybe we're getting there... Maybe the bikes need to come back
Post a reply to: These crappy friggin' tracks........