Posts
700
Joined
12/28/2012
Location
San Bernardino, CA
US
Edited Date/Time
8/16/2013 6:41pm
There is a term for the Japanese master plan of switching to 4 strokes. It's called planned obsolescence.
Don't you guys feel like suckers now
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
Don't you guys feel like suckers now
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
The Shop
Lets face it 2-strokes were awesome & so was the t-Rex.
The term for the 4-stroke switch is called - Advancement
The Japanese wanted to sell more engine parts and increase revenue. They sorta succeeded. They have increased there revenue down the road per unit sold. But their units sold have plummeted.
To the guy that said two stokes had reached their limit of advancement. That is silly. DI was still out there and all they had to do is increase displacement if they wanted more power. That's all they did with the four stroke.
And how is that working out for the sport in general?
GuyB you guys can laugh. But the poor privateer that dumps 12k into a 250F motor and still can't compete with Mitch and Geico is not laughing. Will you walk up to those guys in the pits and tell them it's sucks they can't compete because they don't have enough money? Remember we need the guy in 25th too. Or else we will look like the GP's.
I have nothing to do with the sport other than watching it on TV. It if shrinks even more tomorrow my life won't change a bit . It will however affect you guys that depend on motocross to make a living. You should be promoting things that grow the sport and make it better, cheaper, and easier for people to access it for it to grow. The four stroke does none of that.
It is louder = tracks are closing and I won't attend another race in person anymore because it's too loud and annoying. I can't hear myself think.
Initial acquisition cost are higher.
Maintenance cost are higher and impossible for most to do by themselves.
Speeds have increased which it debatable but coupled with a heavier bike so have the outcomes of the crashes. They have admitted that by letting the 450's go first because they are harder to control on the rough tracks.
Resale values are lower.
So you guys keep laughing. Keep watching tracks close. And watch the job that you love go away.
You guys remind me of the Asiana pilots. They just watched the jetty come right at them until it was too late....
Carry on boys!
board so they have a lot of pull. Time to dump the AMA. They are like the UN.
"The Japanese wanted to sell more engine parts and increase revenue."
Can you back up that blanket claim? No.
But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night
I love it when people dismiss the overall validity of an argument because nobody has any direct evidence
Since this isn't a court of law can you prove what I'm saying is not true?
Does the argument I and others make, make sense?
Do you in fact believe that four strokes are better for the sport overall?
Is it good for the sport that the cost to run a 250F are out of control?
Honestly I didn't start this thread to start another 2/4 debate. I saw that term and I thought it was funny that the Japs and the four strokes was the first thing that popped into my head.
Seriously though more pictures of hot chicks in the pit bits and I'll drop this nonsense
It's supposed to be 90 this weekend at Washougal. Hot chick pics...check.
OK!.....Now you have my attention! You better not disappoint Steve! I want to see a plethora of Chick pics come Sunday afternoon.......I mean seriously......shoot them until your digital camera runs out of film!
On the 2 stroke thing.......I look at it like this. Look at where the argument stood only 5yrs ago.....2 stroke guys didn't have much ground to stand on. " Now days ".......I think it's a different story. In just the 3 short years I have been back riding I have been seeing more and more 2 strokes show back up at the track.
It started out being an underground movement .....which has turned into a full blown rebellion that seems to be gaining some serious momentum. I didn't think I'd ever switch back to getting another 2 stroke.....but damn it man.....it is just too much fun riding those damn things.
You don't have valves
You don't need / want a $1200.00 Exhaust system
You can't beat the sound
You don't have valves
you can't beat the cost of the parts vs a 4 stroke
You don't have valves
you need "less" parts for a 2 stroke
You can work on the damn thing yourself
They are lighter and easier to throw around
And not sure if I mentioned this.....But they DON'T have valves!
And on a side note : Look at the 13' and 14' KTM 250 SX......the 450's really aint got much on this bike. I've seen them first hand of what they are capable of....and they friggin' rip! This is a stock 250 2 stroke design. What would the 125cc and 250cc 2 strokes be like today.....if the Jap bikes actually continued progressing that design???
I love the 4 strokes......but damn man , the 2 strokes aint no joke.
I take chick pics when I can, because I know you guys dig 'em. But it ain't the primary focus.
Pit Row
remember... when Reed, RC, and Stewart were on 250 smokers, they were still kicking the shit out of everyone on 4-strokes. it wasn't until the factories put those 3 on 4-strokes that the sport really started taking a turn. and didn't Bubba make everyone look stupid on an "inferior" 125?
so don't "natural selection" me, BRO. it's a moot fucking argument. the consumers didn't decide what the manufacturers were going to focus on, if they had then your natural selection claim would be accurate.
My Built for Baja 40 horse CRF250X costs less to operate than my smokers. I put 20-30 hours a month on it & the Clutches, Pistons-Rings (Vertex/Total Seal), chains-sprockets, rear tires last SO much longer than they do on my 2T's; but, that's lost on this crowd. Btw, I have one built like an R that I use for Moto, too.
Then there's the fuel issue: compare my $3.90 a gallon to your 32:1/50:1 Pre-mix costs. Btw, I burn about 1/2 the fuel you do, too.
Want to discuss Torque?
I buy REALLY NICE USED 250Xs for $2500. I put around $2K into them, including a FastHeads refresh, & I end up with a bike that is cheap to own & operate.
I change my oil just as often as I do on my KX 250/500...& I run a good air-filter (DT) & I keep it pretty damn clean, too.
A 450 is even cheaper to run if you've got common-sense & you take care of it. They eat rear Tires about the same as my smokers.
You see, I'm a realist. I know what it costs to keep pistons & rings, clutches, reeds (carbon, you know?), chains/sprockets, rear tires, good 2T oil...etc. in my smokers.
Like GuyB implied...
Proof is in the Doing.
thanks Brah
P.S. I was at the Vegas supercross that night, and I ride a ten year old two stroke.
Gibby you may want check this guy, sounds like he could be Luongo
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