The weirdest factory bike I’ve ever seen!

Robgvx
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Robgvx
Edited Date/Time 2/4/2021 9:02am











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Tumic
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Tumic 1/31/2021 4:02am
1/31/2021 4:02am
The same useless system as the bmw enduro bikes used. Could never get the suspension to workshop with the front sprocket on the swing axle
Rupert X
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Rupert X 1/31/2021 4:09am
1/31/2021 4:09am
I like it. Feel like it’s going places.
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Tokyo_Tiddler 1/31/2021 4:43am
1/31/2021 4:43am
Interesting attempt at trying new designs. These days, you hardly every see anything really new anymore from the factories.
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philG
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philG 1/31/2021 4:51am
1/31/2021 4:51am
That looks like an answer to a question nobody asked.

Back then Yamaha were making a lot of 250 Road Race bikes, and a lot of this tech is off that ( certainly the reverse cylinder) , i guess they were trying to broaden the use of the R&D Yen..

I had heard about this, but never seen pictures, like a lot of bikes like this , sometimes you learn just as much from building something that doesnt work, than you do from something that does.

I raced an Ex-Factory Husqvarna 449 SM bike , that had the BMW motor, where the sprocket was on the swingarm pivot, i cant say i felt it was better , but it certainly wasnt worse.
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Tumic
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Tumic 1/31/2021 5:02am
1/31/2021 5:02am
philG wrote:
That looks like an answer to a question nobody asked. Back then Yamaha were making a lot of 250 Road Race bikes, and a lot of...
That looks like an answer to a question nobody asked.

Back then Yamaha were making a lot of 250 Road Race bikes, and a lot of this tech is off that ( certainly the reverse cylinder) , i guess they were trying to broaden the use of the R&D Yen..

I had heard about this, but never seen pictures, like a lot of bikes like this , sometimes you learn just as much from building something that doesnt work, than you do from something that does.

I raced an Ex-Factory Husqvarna 449 SM bike , that had the BMW motor, where the sprocket was on the swingarm pivot, i cant say i felt it was better , but it certainly wasnt worse.
Ask David Knight, Juha Salminen and Anders Eriksson what they thougt about it. Knight left the pits in Finlands WEC round mid race and next round he came on a kxf 450
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#434
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#434 1/31/2021 5:35am
1/31/2021 5:35am
Man, I love stuff like that!! If you never try different stuff, sooner or later you‘ll be stuck.
People always be like: yeah, but it wasn’t better.
True, but they probably learned a lot trying things out.
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#434
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#434 1/31/2021 5:39am
1/31/2021 5:39am
philG wrote:
That looks like an answer to a question nobody asked. Back then Yamaha were making a lot of 250 Road Race bikes, and a lot of...
That looks like an answer to a question nobody asked.

Back then Yamaha were making a lot of 250 Road Race bikes, and a lot of this tech is off that ( certainly the reverse cylinder) , i guess they were trying to broaden the use of the R&D Yen..

I had heard about this, but never seen pictures, like a lot of bikes like this , sometimes you learn just as much from building something that doesnt work, than you do from something that does.

I raced an Ex-Factory Husqvarna 449 SM bike , that had the BMW motor, where the sprocket was on the swingarm pivot, i cant say i felt it was better , but it certainly wasnt worse.
Tumic wrote:
Ask David Knight, Juha Salminen and Anders Eriksson what they thougt about it. Knight left the pits in Finlands WEC round mid race and next round...
Ask David Knight, Juha Salminen and Anders Eriksson what they thougt about it. Knight left the pits in Finlands WEC round mid race and next round he came on a kxf 450
The shitty part about that bike was the frame. Hardest part to design for a dirt bike is the chassis. And BMW underestimated that big time.
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byke
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byke 1/31/2021 9:08am
1/31/2021 9:08am
philG wrote:
That looks like an answer to a question nobody asked. Back then Yamaha were making a lot of 250 Road Race bikes, and a lot of...
That looks like an answer to a question nobody asked.

Back then Yamaha were making a lot of 250 Road Race bikes, and a lot of this tech is off that ( certainly the reverse cylinder) , i guess they were trying to broaden the use of the R&D Yen..

I had heard about this, but never seen pictures, like a lot of bikes like this , sometimes you learn just as much from building something that doesnt work, than you do from something that does.

I raced an Ex-Factory Husqvarna 449 SM bike , that had the BMW motor, where the sprocket was on the swingarm pivot, i cant say i felt it was better , but it certainly wasnt worse.
Tumic wrote:
Ask David Knight, Juha Salminen and Anders Eriksson what they thougt about it. Knight left the pits in Finlands WEC round mid race and next round...
Ask David Knight, Juha Salminen and Anders Eriksson what they thougt about it. Knight left the pits in Finlands WEC round mid race and next round he came on a kxf 450
Gross. Dude sounds like a real weirdo.
1
Ryan625
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Ryan625 1/31/2021 9:14am
1/31/2021 9:14am
Was this the bike where Yamaha basically took their street bike frame and fit it up for dirt?
Steve125
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Steve125 1/31/2021 9:25am
1/31/2021 9:25am
I think its awesome. Except for the swingarm pivot mounted sprocket. Chain torque load on the suspension has its advantages in some situations.
Thanks for sharing.
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Edge-Of-Adhesion 1/31/2021 9:34am
1/31/2021 9:34am
philG wrote:
That looks like an answer to a question nobody asked. Back then Yamaha were making a lot of 250 Road Race bikes, and a lot of...
That looks like an answer to a question nobody asked.

Back then Yamaha were making a lot of 250 Road Race bikes, and a lot of this tech is off that ( certainly the reverse cylinder) , i guess they were trying to broaden the use of the R&D Yen..

I had heard about this, but never seen pictures, like a lot of bikes like this , sometimes you learn just as much from building something that doesnt work, than you do from something that does.

I raced an Ex-Factory Husqvarna 449 SM bike , that had the BMW motor, where the sprocket was on the swingarm pivot, i cant say i felt it was better , but it certainly wasnt worse.
Tumic wrote:
Ask David Knight, Juha Salminen and Anders Eriksson what they thougt about it. Knight left the pits in Finlands WEC round mid race and next round...
Ask David Knight, Juha Salminen and Anders Eriksson what they thougt about it. Knight left the pits in Finlands WEC round mid race and next round he came on a kxf 450
It must have sucked for Knight, his BMW contract was for £500k apparently.
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FWYT
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FWYT 1/31/2021 10:04am
1/31/2021 10:04am
Love seeing new ideas, even if they don't work, tried out.
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2stmark
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2stmark 1/31/2021 12:09pm
1/31/2021 12:09pm
The story i heard was David Knight hated his BMW so much ....& they would not let him out of his contract
So in front of the BMW brass during a race he threw his bike down , whipped it out & pissed on it !

Then he got what he wanted lol
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Dirty Points 1/31/2021 12:19pm
1/31/2021 12:19pm
I seriously doubt the concentric countershaft sprocket was even the least of the issues with the radical BMW (or this radical Yamaha).
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FWYT
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FWYT 1/31/2021 12:22pm
1/31/2021 12:22pm
The whole C/S at the swingarm pivot is so fascinating to me because it seems like one of those ideas
that would just have to work, but so far, has not. Or maybe it just needed more development to get the rest of
the bike to work with it. Still love seeing people try different things.
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Dirty Points 1/31/2021 12:30pm
1/31/2021 12:30pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2021 3:50pm
FWYT wrote:
The whole C/S at the swingarm pivot is so fascinating to me because it [i]seems[/i] like one of those ideas that would just have to work...
The whole C/S at the swingarm pivot is so fascinating to me because it seems like one of those ideas
that would just have to work, but so far, has not. Or maybe it just needed more development to get the rest of
the bike to work with it. Still love seeing people try different things.
It is a valid design idea with a few pluses and minuses that really hasn't been broached in any meaningful way.

Pointing to BMW as the nexus of this concentric-drive design failure ignores that it was an all-new built-in-Taiwan machine that weighed 10 lbs more than the heaviest of the competition and had vastly different design methodologies across the board than other dirt bikes.

That would be like pointing to Cannondale as proof that EFI on mx bikes is doomed to failure. It was not necessarily that feature that was problematic (although it may have been half-baked), it was the whole damn bike!
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#434
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#434 1/31/2021 12:34pm
1/31/2021 12:34pm
The longer I look at the photos, the more I love it!
Are there more pics/info of that bike? If so please share!!
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ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 1/31/2021 12:36pm
1/31/2021 12:36pm
Was this Yamaha ever raced ? I'm guessing if so maybe the Japanese national series ?
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Tumic
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Tumic 1/31/2021 1:26pm
1/31/2021 1:26pm
Dirty Points wrote:
I seriously doubt the concentric countershaft sprocket was even the least of the issues with the radical BMW (or this radical Yamaha).
Bmw made a normal front sprocket design for the last WEC race that year and Salminen won that race. So going from being a world champion to being a top 10 guy on that shitty bmw to then winning the last race when they went back to a normal design speaks for it self.
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Dirty Points 1/31/2021 1:28pm
1/31/2021 1:28pm
Dirty Points wrote:
I seriously doubt the concentric countershaft sprocket was even the least of the issues with the radical BMW (or this radical Yamaha).
Tumic wrote:
Bmw made a normal front sprocket design for the last WEC race that year and Salminen won that race. So going from being a world champion...
Bmw made a normal front sprocket design for the last WEC race that year and Salminen won that race. So going from being a world champion to being a top 10 guy on that shitty bmw to then winning the last race when they went back to a normal design speaks for it self.
And I am sure that is the only change they made.
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FWYT 1/31/2021 3:57pm
1/31/2021 3:57pm
FWYT wrote:
The whole C/S at the swingarm pivot is so fascinating to me because it [i]seems[/i] like one of those ideas that would just have to work...
The whole C/S at the swingarm pivot is so fascinating to me because it seems like one of those ideas
that would just have to work, but so far, has not. Or maybe it just needed more development to get the rest of
the bike to work with it. Still love seeing people try different things.
Dirty Points wrote:
It is a valid design idea with a few pluses and minuses that really hasn't been broached in any meaningful way. Pointing to BMW as the...
It is a valid design idea with a few pluses and minuses that really hasn't been broached in any meaningful way.

Pointing to BMW as the nexus of this concentric-drive design failure ignores that it was an all-new built-in-Taiwan machine that weighed 10 lbs more than the heaviest of the competition and had vastly different design methodologies across the board than other dirt bikes.

That would be like pointing to Cannondale as proof that EFI on mx bikes is doomed to failure. It was not necessarily that feature that was problematic (although it may have been half-baked), it was the whole damn bike!
Yep.

I sure would like to ride something like that, just to see what it feels like. Or even
one of those Horst Leitner dealio-s. I just think that sort of design stuff is so interesting.

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ZOBITO
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ZOBITO 1/31/2021 4:02pm
1/31/2021 4:02pm
#434 wrote:
The longer I look at the photos, the more I love it!
Are there more pics/info of that bike? If so please share!!
What year is it? Early nineties? Guess it's a 125?
-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 1/31/2021 4:05pm
1/31/2021 4:05pm
Not to hijack, but have any of you guys in Europe ever ridden one of these German bikes? How were they and what's their story?








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face biter
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face biter 1/31/2021 4:15pm
1/31/2021 4:15pm
Wow, that Müller kinda doesn’t look like total shit! I like it.
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Jason XCmtb 2/1/2021 5:07am
2/1/2021 5:07am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Not to hijack, but have any of you guys in Europe ever ridden one of these German bikes? How were they and what's their story? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/01/31/476077/s1200_1985_Kreidler_KRC_125_1.jpg[/img]...
Not to hijack, but have any of you guys in Europe ever ridden one of these German bikes? How were they and what's their story?








A guy in the UK had that #18 Kriedler till recently and raced it at the VMXDN. Awesome piece of kit and looked ahead of it's time.
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