The times they are a changin'

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11/4/2018 1:58 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/4/2018 2:01 PM

I thought about posting this yesterday after coming home from the track, but I was tired and not ready for the flame wars. This morning I read the thread about Yamaha drastically cutting their budget, and so I decided to post this.

For a while, I thought that I just preferred (LOVED) two strokes like some others on here, but that the vast majority wanted their four strokes. "That's what the market wants". No, I'm sorry, the four stroke racing advantage was a classic "we will tell the market what it wants".

Due to work, a new business and having two young kids, I've been to the track twice this year. Once around March and once yesterday. At the track yesterday I was BLOWN AWAY that on the turn track and vet track, one in three bikes was a smoker. Even on the pro track, it was 1/5 to 1/4. In the pits, it was literally HALF SMOKERS. I sat there and counted between my three motos. At times you would see 3/4 rider trains of 125s dicing with each other. It was great.

That is a HUGE change. When I was on a 250SX through 2014-15, people would look at you funny at the track. You'd almost never see another smoker.
People are definitely wising up to the fact that two strokes are fun AND you can work on them yourself for next to nothing. When I was in my teens in the 90s, MX/SX had a lot more participation than today. We all rode smokers and we frigging loved it. Then when you needed a rebuild, you and dad went to the garage, he had a couple of beers (and later on let me have one now and then) and showed you how to rebuild the engine. Then you started helping. Then you started doing it yourself.

IMHO that's when MX was truly a family sport. Nowadays, mum/mom and dad have to work their asses off just to pay the mortgage/bills. They can't afford a $4k four stroke rebuild.

And I've owned a number of 450s and would probably own a 350 one day just to try it out (as a third bike), so don't flame me as a four stroke hater. For racing the 4Ts make sense - against other four strokes.... I'm not a four stroke hater. I am merely pointing out what I see.

But seriously, NOTHING comes close to the fun of thrashing a 125/150, or the thrill of nailing a fast lap on a fire breathing 250 two stroke. People are quickly catching on.

Edit: phone typos.

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11/4/2018 2:17 PM

And with this used two stroke prices have surged too. I ride a 125 because it forces you to use proper technique and fully commit to everything. Lots of people don’t care about getting faster so thats why I think you see a lot of slower guys on four strokes, you can get lazy with less consequence. Different strokes for different folks

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11/4/2018 2:18 PM

90 percent of casual riders need to do just that have fun. As for me it wouldn’t matter if I rode a roaches out 125 or a pro modes 450 I am a rider am not good so just ride what you have and have fun.

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11/4/2018 2:29 PM

Excaliburbmx wrote:

90 percent of casual riders need to do just that have fun. As for me it wouldn’t matter if I rode a roaches out 125 or a pro modes 450 I am a rider am not good so just ride what you have and have fun.

Grew up racing 2 strokes, best bike I ever had was an 01 125sxs, that being said trying to ring the neck off a 2t just isn't fun anymore, ill take an easy lazy 450 any day, faster laps for longer in the day.

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11/4/2018 2:30 PM

A lot of good things mentioned here. I think one of the main reason's ( there are a few ) reason's why I finally made the full time switch......I feel 20 years younger on one. It forces me to ride aggressive , otherwise you don't go anywhere.

I truly believe that having a 60hp 450 under you , while your only using 30hp of that motor on majority of the track....kind of defeat's the purpose in a way?

There is some major fun to be had when you can ring out your bike , ride aggressive , and not be intimidated by carefully not hitting the switch to full mach 5 speed , with a little whiskey throttle on a 450. Always in for a hell of a ride when that happen's.

I wish more guy's could / would experience what I have over these past few years. Riding the living shit out of a slower bike , can be extremely gratifying. There is a -re-learning curve to it....but man oh man , it can be so much fun if you are willing to accept the learning process.

Btw.....yes , there are more and more 2 strokes at the track every year!

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

11/4/2018 2:38 PM

here in aus... unless your a pro or trying to win races. Most of the riders are on the 2 strokes.
especially the 125's.. people cant get enough of them! i don't think you appreciate the fun factor of them 2 strokes until you race the 250f and 450's and then swing a leg over a 2 stroke and the smile doesn't go away the whole time.

I've just sold my new 250f as i'm stepping away from the race scene and picked up a 93 KX500 to have some fun on. plenty of power but hey!! I'm keen to have some fun in 3rd gear hahaha

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11/4/2018 2:51 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/4/2018 8:22 PM

I stayed with 2 strokes only because I couldn't afford a 4 stroke, so it's kinda funny to me seeing so many people come back to the 2 stroke's.
Imo and I really think this should have been done a long time ago, is have separate classes, it's more fun to Race people on equal bikes , so
Separate the classes at least that's my opinion 250f's Race other 250f's 125 vs other 125s
2 stroke against 2 stroke
4 stroke against 4 stroke
And when electric gets here electric against electric
,
I think local clubs should have kept a 125 and a 250
2 stroke class all along
At the local level if this had been done I think racing would be healthier. But maybe its not to late .
Note to track owners
It's More fun to race Others on the same Bike.

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11/4/2018 3:05 PM

I switched back to a 2 stroke this year, and while I’ve only ridden it twice, I’ll tell you that I’ve had more fun those 2 times than I did the last 2 years of riding my 450. I’ve always felt right at home on 250 2 strokes, even after going years without riding them so there wasn’t much adjustment for me. My only complaint is having to run race gas, but that’s a small price to pay when you factor in the fun I have riding it.

Best decision I made was selling my 450 to pick a 250 smoker. She’s exactly the way I want her to be and has plenty of power, but nothing too much. And man, it feels like nothing is under me when I ride that 250!

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

11/4/2018 3:14 PM

They're coming back in Canada. Next year we'll have a 125/150 class at all the National MX rounds. Not sure if they'll just be exhibition races, a series, 1 moto or 2 motos but one thing is for sure plenty of people will be signing up to race it. You'll just need to be a minimum of 12 years old and it'll be ride what you brought. It's a start and we still allow 250 2t vs 250 4t in the 250 class.

Me personally, I never made the jump to 4 strokes. My brother did so I have ridden them but they just weren't for me. If I was still able to ride I'd be on a newer 2 stroke.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

11/4/2018 3:17 PM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

They're coming back in Canada. Next year we'll have a 125/150 class at all the National MX rounds. Not sure if they'll just be exhibition races, a series, 1 moto or 2 motos but one thing is for sure plenty of people will be signing up to race it. You'll just need to be a minimum of 12 years old and it'll be ride what you brought. It's a start and we still allow 250 2t vs 250 4t in the 250 class.

Me personally, I never made the jump to 4 strokes. My brother did so I have ridden them but they just weren't for me. If I was still able to ride I'd be on a newer 2 stroke.

That's cool I hadn't heard that , hopefully a point series
And imo they should limit it to just 125 not 125/150
Because then it pretty much forced everyone to go to 150
Or 144 , wouldn't it ?

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11/4/2018 3:26 PM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

They're coming back in Canada. Next year we'll have a 125/150 class at all the National MX rounds. Not sure if they'll just be exhibition races, a series, 1 moto or 2 motos but one thing is for sure plenty of people will be signing up to race it. You'll just need to be a minimum of 12 years old and it'll be ride what you brought. It's a start and we still allow 250 2t vs 250 4t in the 250 class.

Me personally, I never made the jump to 4 strokes. My brother did so I have ridden them but they just weren't for me. If I was still able to ride I'd be on a newer 2 stroke.

Tarz483 wrote:

That's cool I hadn't heard that , hopefully a point series
And imo they should limit it to just 125 not 125/150
Because then it pretty much forced everyone to go to 150
Or 144 , wouldn't it ?

Strange as it sounds , I've heard and talked to quite a few really fast small bore racer's , and some prefer the 125 over the 150 in racing. Having the extra 25cc isn't always a benefit if the motor is built right. Some may agree , some may not.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

11/4/2018 3:31 PM

Been preaching it for almost two decades now and gotten my fair share of shit thrown at me here. Now, I’ll just order a pizza, maybe take a nap.

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11/4/2018 3:34 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/4/2018 3:36 PM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

They're coming back in Canada. Next year we'll have a 125/150 class at all the National MX rounds. Not sure if they'll just be exhibition races, a series, 1 moto or 2 motos but one thing is for sure plenty of people will be signing up to race it. You'll just need to be a minimum of 12 years old and it'll be ride what you brought. It's a start and we still allow 250 2t vs 250 4t in the 250 class.

Me personally, I never made the jump to 4 strokes. My brother did so I have ridden them but they just weren't for me. If I was still able to ride I'd be on a newer 2 stroke.

Tarz483 wrote:

That's cool I hadn't heard that , hopefully a point series
And imo they should limit it to just 125 not 125/150
Because then it pretty much forced everyone to go to 150
Or 144 , wouldn't it ?

The thing is that a lot of the dealers don't even bring in the 125's and only the 150's so a lot more of those are sold (KTM/Husky).

I don't mind that it's 125, 134, 144, etc. I've personally ridden both 125's and 144's and honestly it's whatever you prefer. It's similar to the 250 vs 300. There's a difference yes but they each do some things better than the other. I think it pretty much evens out in the end.

I'm just happy that the 125/150 will be making their way back at the races. Hoping it develops into a points series.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

11/4/2018 3:37 PM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

They're coming back in Canada. Next year we'll have a 125/150 class at all the National MX rounds. Not sure if they'll just be exhibition races, a series, 1 moto or 2 motos but one thing is for sure plenty of people will be signing up to race it. You'll just need to be a minimum of 12 years old and it'll be ride what you brought. It's a start and we still allow 250 2t vs 250 4t in the 250 class.

Me personally, I never made the jump to 4 strokes. My brother did so I have ridden them but they just weren't for me. If I was still able to ride I'd be on a newer 2 stroke.

Tarz483 wrote:

That's cool I hadn't heard that , hopefully a point series
And imo they should limit it to just 125 not 125/150
Because then it pretty much forced everyone to go to 150
Or 144 , wouldn't it ?

-MAVERICK- wrote:

The thing is that a lot of the dealers don't even bring in the 125's and only the 150's so a lot more of those are sold (KTM/Husky).

I don't mind that it's 125, 134, 144, etc. I've personally ridden both 125's and 144's and honestly it's whatever you prefer. It's similar to the 250 vs 300. There's a difference yes but they each do some things better than the other. I think it pretty much evens out in the end.

I'm just happy that the 125/150 will be making their way back at the races. Hoping it develops into a points series.

I hope it goes over really well Mav! Just like you guy's letting the 250 2 stroke's in to race against the 250 4 stroke's. They are great competition between those two bikes. Why they allow it up North , and not here?....I have no idea.

|

And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

11/4/2018 4:05 PM

Tarz483 wrote:

That's cool I hadn't heard that , hopefully a point series
And imo they should limit it to just 125 not 125/150
Because then it pretty much forced everyone to go to 150
Or 144 , wouldn't it ?

-MAVERICK- wrote:

The thing is that a lot of the dealers don't even bring in the 125's and only the 150's so a lot more of those are sold (KTM/Husky).

I don't mind that it's 125, 134, 144, etc. I've personally ridden both 125's and 144's and honestly it's whatever you prefer. It's similar to the 250 vs 300. There's a difference yes but they each do some things better than the other. I think it pretty much evens out in the end.

I'm just happy that the 125/150 will be making their way back at the races. Hoping it develops into a points series.

jeffro503 wrote:

I hope it goes over really well Mav! Just like you guy's letting the 250 2 stroke's in to race against the 250 4 stroke's. They are great competition between those two bikes. Why they allow it up North , and not here?....I have no idea.

Not many were on the 250 2t this year but the option is there for anyone that wants to ride/race one.

I don't know what the big deal is. It's not like the 250 2t is walking away with everything. Kaven Benoit did in 2014 and 2015 but in 2014 when he switched to the 250 4t for some of the races the results were the same.

I know Australia allows them as well.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

11/4/2018 6:22 PM

Ive seen a local pro fall in the first turn of a 250a moto on a cr250 then proceed to run down the leader with a few laps to go and pass him so the way I look at it is if he doesn’t need a 4 stroke why would I?

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11/4/2018 6:42 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/4/2018 6:43 PM

newmann wrote:

Been preaching it for almost two decades now and gotten my fair share of shit thrown at me here. Now, I’ll just order a pizza, maybe take a nap.

Don't feel bad, I posted the day after J-law won his SX championship " he might as well enjoy it because it will be his last" and the keyboard shit storm they gave me was funny.

Kind of quit posting, ordered a pizza and took a nap after that

I employ over 150 people, the writing was on the wall.

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11/4/2018 7:11 PM

jeffro503 wrote:

A lot of good things mentioned here. I think one of the main reason's ( there are a few ) reason's why I finally made the full time switch......I feel 20 years younger on one. It forces me to ride aggressive , otherwise you don't go anywhere.

I truly believe that having a 60hp 450 under you , while your only using 30hp of that motor on majority of the track....kind of defeat's the purpose in a way?

There is some major fun to be had when you can ring out your bike , ride aggressive , and not be intimidated by carefully not hitting the switch to full mach 5 speed , with a little whiskey throttle on a 450. Always in for a hell of a ride when that happen's.

I wish more guy's could / would experience what I have over these past few years. Riding the living shit out of a slower bike , can be extremely gratifying. There is a -re-learning curve to it....but man oh man , it can be so much fun if you are willing to accept the learning process.

Btw.....yes , there are more and more 2 strokes at the track every year!

Man i just raced a buddies ktm 300 during the night portion of the 24 hr at starvation ridge and it was an absolute kick in the pants!

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11/4/2018 8:19 PM

Tarz483 wrote:

I stayed with 2 strokes only because I couldn't afford a 4 stroke, so it's kinda funny to me seeing so many people come back to the 2 stroke's.
Imo and I really think this should have been done a long time ago, is have separate classes, it's more fun to Race people on equal bikes , so
Separate the classes at least that's my opinion 250f's Race other 250f's 125 vs other 125s
2 stroke against 2 stroke
4 stroke against 4 stroke
And when electric gets here electric against electric
,
I think local clubs should have kept a 125 and a 250
2 stroke class all along
At the local level if this had been done I think racing would be healthier. But maybe its not to late .
Note to track owners
It's More fun to race Others on the same Bike.

"2 stroke against 2 stroke
4 stroke against for stroke"

yup, especially cuz some of the guys on their brand new $9500.00 4 strokes cry like a baby when i literally "smoke" them on my 38 year old yz250, lol.

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11/4/2018 9:38 PM

Ive never owned a 4 stroke mx bike. Never have, never will. They will have to pry the 927 from my cold dead hands.

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11/4/2018 11:15 PM

Yawn.

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11/5/2018 12:32 AM

RCMXracing wrote:

Yawn.

That's the 4st effect.

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11/5/2018 1:01 AM

It’s all a moot point, electric bikes will be here sooner or later. A bike that you can map to ride like a 2t one moto and a 4t the next. I think they are about our only hope of opening up riding areas and bringing new people to the sport.

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11/5/2018 1:24 AM

Our local series has added a couple of 2 stroke only classes! Smart idea IMO..

Where is the yamaha budget thread?

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2020 YZ450F
2018 KTM 450SXF FE
2016 YZ250F 2008 CRF450R
2015 YZ250F 2008 CRF250R
2001 CR250R
2010 YZ250 2012 CRF150R
2009 YZ125 2010 KX109.5
SSR Motorsports Dealer YCF Motorcycles
TAGMX Suspension & Graphics! www.tagmxsuspension.com https://www.liquidskinzdesign.com/



11/5/2018 2:08 AM

Why the hell would you want to add more classes on race day? The worst thing about race days is sitting around all day waiting for your 5 lap moto. Run 2 and 4 strokes together in their respective cc classes

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11/5/2018 2:40 AM

chump6784 wrote:

Why the hell would you want to add more classes on race day? The worst thing about race days is sitting around all day waiting for your 5 lap moto. Run 2 and 4 strokes together in their respective cc classes

Turn out is so low they usually are on the gate with other 4 stroke classes!

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2020 YZ450F
2018 KTM 450SXF FE
2016 YZ250F 2008 CRF450R
2015 YZ250F 2008 CRF250R
2001 CR250R
2010 YZ250 2012 CRF150R
2009 YZ125 2010 KX109.5
SSR Motorsports Dealer YCF Motorcycles
TAGMX Suspension & Graphics! www.tagmxsuspension.com https://www.liquidskinzdesign.com/