The reason KTM cannot admit what we saw

Chris_Cooksey
Edited Date/Time 5/1/2017 5:02pm


Right out of the rule book, and unlike the court system John Gallagher can choose to apply any of these rules to this situation. The penalty can be whatever he thinks is fair and equitable.
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Brownstone322 4/29/2017 8:29pm
4/29/2017 8:29pm
Of course they're not going to admit it, nor should they. This isn't amateur night in Podunk.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 4/29/2017 8:32pm
4/29/2017 8:32pm
IF Marvin did pull over for Ryan, you are assuming KTM gave him an order to do so....unless you have proof then lets stop the conjecture eh?
Acidreamer
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Acidreamer 4/29/2017 8:34pm
4/29/2017 8:34pm
kiwifan wrote:
IF Marvin did pull over for Ryan, you are assuming KTM gave him an order to do so....unless you have proof then lets stop the conjecture...
IF Marvin did pull over for Ryan, you are assuming KTM gave him an order to do so....unless you have proof then lets stop the conjecture eh?
I think proof is in the replay dude. If you really think marvin made a mistake in that rut and was all giddy on the podium for a mistake you need help. He moved over for ryan because of team orders. We saw it in detroit i think it was too. I knew there was a rule against this
zehn
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zehn 4/29/2017 8:37pm
4/29/2017 8:37pm
Acidreamer wrote:
I think proof is in the replay dude. If you really think marvin made a mistake in that rut and was all giddy on the podium...
I think proof is in the replay dude. If you really think marvin made a mistake in that rut and was all giddy on the podium for a mistake you need help. He moved over for ryan because of team orders. We saw it in detroit i think it was too. I knew there was a rule against this
Since you seem to need this spelled out to you...

The decision to pull over could have been Marvin's entirely, with no "team orders" or suggestion from the team, in which case they wouldn't be guilty of fixing the race or whatever. Can you prove that they issued team orders? No, you cannot. Case closed.

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Brownstone322 4/29/2017 8:37pm
4/29/2017 8:37pm
kiwifan wrote:
IF Marvin did pull over for Ryan, you are assuming KTM gave him an order to do so....unless you have proof then lets stop the conjecture...
IF Marvin did pull over for Ryan, you are assuming KTM gave him an order to do so....unless you have proof then lets stop the conjecture eh?
It was obviously orchestrated. I was waiting for it to happen (kinda expected it a lap or so earlier). But ... so what?

Why's this even worth discussing? Have people actually watched professional racing before?

mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 4/29/2017 8:44pm
4/29/2017 8:44pm
Motodave15 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/04/29/191502/s1200_Screenshot_2017_04_29_20_38_34.jpg[/img]


Looks like proof to me
BobPA
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BobPA 4/29/2017 8:46pm
4/29/2017 8:46pm
Motodave15 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/04/29/191502/s1200_Screenshot_2017_04_29_20_38_34.jpg[/img]


mattyhamz2 wrote:
Looks like proof to me
People see what they want to see....

I do not remember this much of an explosion when Webb "stalled it" outdoors...
gnarwhip
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gnarwhip 4/29/2017 8:46pm
4/29/2017 8:46pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 10:26pm
Oh boy! Proof! This should be interesting. KTM, Roger, Marvin, and Carlos...a bunch of Euros
wfo4ever
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wfo4ever 4/29/2017 8:47pm
4/29/2017 8:47pm
Like Dungey said "It's just a dirt bike race".
mxjon454
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mxjon454 4/29/2017 8:47pm
4/29/2017 8:47pm
Motodave15 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/04/29/191502/s1200_Screenshot_2017_04_29_20_38_34.jpg[/img]


mattyhamz2 wrote:
Looks like proof to me
Exactly. No other reason for frankie to put ryan on the pitboard on the last lap unless hes signaling for musquin to let ryan by.
level
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level 4/29/2017 8:48pm
4/29/2017 8:48pm
Who cares. We've seen it a million times over the years. Marvin is not in the championship hunt and of course he's going to let him by. Be a dick move if he didn't. KTM should do everything to have a rider win a championship. If the roles were reversed then dungey would move over. This is a team and bike manufacturer championship we are talking about. It's very important . Could you imagine how bad it would be if dungey ended up losing over 2 or 3 points because marvin didn't let him by? That would be very bad.
Real Mr. K.I.A. 4/29/2017 8:50pm
4/29/2017 8:50pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Looks like proof to me
Not proof of anything.

For all anyone knows that says 1 lap to go. Ryan in 2nd.

Eli was fighting a 1 man war and choked. All he can do is hope shit goes bad for Dungey next week and he wins.

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cali11 4/29/2017 8:51pm
4/29/2017 8:51pm
Oh for fucks sake of course he pulled over
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Acidreamer 4/29/2017 8:53pm
4/29/2017 8:53pm
Acidreamer wrote:
I think proof is in the replay dude. If you really think marvin made a mistake in that rut and was all giddy on the podium...
I think proof is in the replay dude. If you really think marvin made a mistake in that rut and was all giddy on the podium for a mistake you need help. He moved over for ryan because of team orders. We saw it in detroit i think it was too. I knew there was a rule against this
zehn wrote:
Since you seem to need this spelled out to you... The decision to pull over could have been Marvin's entirely, with no "team orders" or suggestion...
Since you seem to need this spelled out to you...

The decision to pull over could have been Marvin's entirely, with no "team orders" or suggestion from the team, in which case they wouldn't be guilty of fixing the race or whatever. Can you prove that they issued team orders? No, you cannot. Case closed.
Looks like you spoke too soon bud. Pitboards show it.
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zehn 4/29/2017 8:53pm
4/29/2017 8:53pm
cali11 wrote:
Oh for fucks sake of course he pulled over
I don't think anybody is denying that at this point

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zehn
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zehn 4/29/2017 8:55pm
4/29/2017 8:55pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 8:57pm
Acidreamer wrote:
I think proof is in the replay dude. If you really think marvin made a mistake in that rut and was all giddy on the podium...
I think proof is in the replay dude. If you really think marvin made a mistake in that rut and was all giddy on the podium for a mistake you need help. He moved over for ryan because of team orders. We saw it in detroit i think it was too. I knew there was a rule against this
zehn wrote:
Since you seem to need this spelled out to you... The decision to pull over could have been Marvin's entirely, with no "team orders" or suggestion...
Since you seem to need this spelled out to you...

The decision to pull over could have been Marvin's entirely, with no "team orders" or suggestion from the team, in which case they wouldn't be guilty of fixing the race or whatever. Can you prove that they issued team orders? No, you cannot. Case closed.
Acidreamer wrote:
Looks like you spoke too soon bud. Pitboards show it.
Pitboard was posted in the race thread several hours ago, I had already seen it. All we see is that is says "Ryan". Does it say pull over? Give up the lead? No, it doesn't. It says "Ryan". My guess is Frankie was just reminding him of the situation.

I don't suppose you listened to Decoster's interview yet?
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Nighttrain 4/29/2017 8:55pm
4/29/2017 8:55pm
Brownstone322 wrote:
It was obviously orchestrated. I was waiting for it to happen (kinda expected it a lap or so earlier). But ... so what? Why's this even...
It was obviously orchestrated. I was waiting for it to happen (kinda expected it a lap or so earlier). But ... so what?

Why's this even worth discussing? Have people actually watched professional racing before?

I've watching professional racing of all sorts for 40+ years. Like most others SX is scored individually with rules against race fixing. Of course team tactics are often at play in all racing sports but carried out with more subtle, professional skills. Musquin's execution of team tactics was amateurish. His excuse mockery. But he, Dungey and DeCoster are deservedly well liked and respected. It'll blow over and be soon forgotten unless Tomac loses the series by the points Musquin gifted Dungey.
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Lester 4/29/2017 8:56pm
4/29/2017 8:56pm
All of this is a deflection for the fact that Tomac choked. IF Dungey wins the title, it won't be because of team tactics, it will be because Tomac had a mental meltdown and a few other so-so results.
dirtworldmx 4/29/2017 8:57pm
4/29/2017 8:57pm
Real Mr. K.I.A. wrote:
Not proof of anything. For all anyone knows that says 1 lap to go. Ryan in 2nd. Eli was fighting a 1 man war and choked...
Not proof of anything.

For all anyone knows that says 1 lap to go. Ryan in 2nd.

Eli was fighting a 1 man war and choked. All he can do is hope shit goes bad for Dungey next week and he wins.

Marvin already knew that was Ryan behind him...they ride together every day. The pit board seems like a little reminder..."Don't forget about Ryan and his championship."
71Fish
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71Fish 4/29/2017 8:58pm
4/29/2017 8:58pm
If the order was to pull over, why would Marvin risk passing Dungey in the first place?
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zehn 4/29/2017 8:59pm
4/29/2017 8:59pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Looks like proof to me
Real Mr. K.I.A. wrote:
Not proof of anything. For all anyone knows that says 1 lap to go. Ryan in 2nd. Eli was fighting a 1 man war and choked...
Not proof of anything.

For all anyone knows that says 1 lap to go. Ryan in 2nd.

Eli was fighting a 1 man war and choked. All he can do is hope shit goes bad for Dungey next week and he wins.

Exactly
olds cool
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olds cool 4/29/2017 9:04pm
4/29/2017 9:04pm
Motodave15 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/04/29/191502/s1200_Screenshot_2017_04_29_20_38_34.jpg[/img]


mattyhamz2 wrote:
Looks like proof to me
mxjon454 wrote:
Exactly. No other reason for frankie to put ryan on the pitboard on the last lap unless hes signaling for musquin to let ryan by.
That proves nothing. Now if it would have said "Let Ryan Bye"...Wink
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kaptkaos 4/29/2017 9:07pm
4/29/2017 9:07pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 9:08pm
I dont see a problem, you posted the rules like your were going to prove beyond a doubt that they violated a rule. I dont know, but I have been reading the English a long time, and the rule clearly states, FIXED or PRE-ARRANGED.

So youre telling me that before the race (pre-arranged) KTM instructed Marvin to be in the lead (beating 18 other non team members) and Ryan in second until the last lap, and them swap positions? Engaging in a race that was fixed is how it was worded, and that would require the winner of the race to be known before the race started and that was not the case, Marvin made a decision during the race that he would support his team and friend by relinquishing his position to his team mate.

The team and Marvin did NOT know who was going to win the race before they started, nobody knows who is going to win, they all try put themselves in a position to win. Team Orders mean that as the race unfolds one rider helps his Team by following orders to help his team mate by not hindering his progress toward achieving the teams goal. So even if Marvin was in 2nd and Ryan in 3rd, Team Orders are team orders and do not make a race result pre-determined or fixed. That would be fixed or predetermined if all the other teams were pulling over and letting Ryan by and blocking Eli.

I am sure Kawi love to tell JG to go out there and get the lead and keep it until Tomac can come take it from you on the last lap, but thats just isnt possible. I am pretty sure Kawi told Eli, go out there and get the Holeshot, and ride away from these clowns every weekend, and told JG not to hold him up or try to pass him. Is that pre-arranged or fixed?

Get over it people.
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BoilemMashem 4/29/2017 9:09pm
4/29/2017 9:09pm
Feel bad for Ryan. Do not sense he is a man that wants a title this way. Especially at retirement. Tough to sleep in these cases.
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Claerhout 4/29/2017 9:16pm
4/29/2017 9:16pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 9:18pm
We all saw it coming, and there is a reason for that! What's so special about Eli Tomac, or bad about Dungey that fans are upset about this, and the fact that Dungey has the lead with less wins? I don't get it nothing has changed over the years other than the names.
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kiwifan 4/29/2017 9:16pm
4/29/2017 9:16pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 9:19pm
Gee you guys way over analyze every frigging thing, just because it says Ryan on the pit board then that is the proof it says, 'pull over for Ryan'??? unbelievable. A few of you need to tighten your sprockets, take an asprin and have a lie down.
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Calihusky 4/29/2017 9:20pm
4/29/2017 9:20pm
Technically I don't think "fixed or prearranged" applies to one team mate not racing another as hard as they could. I was shocked Marvin was racing Dungey as hard as he was in the first place. Also shocked Grant was racing Tomac as much as he was too. Tomac actually cased a jump trying to get around Grant. I wonder if the Kawasaki team is irritated about that? I'm sure They weren't all like " you go Grant! Make Tomac work for it if he wants the championship."

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