The reason KTM cannot admit what we saw

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4/29/2017 8:25 PM

Photo

Right out of the rule book, and unlike the court system John Gallagher can choose to apply any of these rules to this situation. The penalty can be whatever he thinks is fair and equitable.
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4/29/2017 8:29 PM

Of course they're not going to admit it, nor should they. This isn't amateur night in Podunk.

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F1. MotoGP. MXGP. Screw the rest.

4/29/2017 8:32 PM

IF Marvin did pull over for Ryan, you are assuming KTM gave him an order to do so....unless you have proof then lets stop the conjecture eh?

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

4/29/2017 8:34 PM

kiwifan wrote:

IF Marvin did pull over for Ryan, you are assuming KTM gave him an order to do so....unless you have proof then lets stop the conjecture eh?

I think proof is in the replay dude. If you really think marvin made a mistake in that rut and was all giddy on the podium for a mistake you need help. He moved over for ryan because of team orders. We saw it in detroit i think it was too. I knew there was a rule against this

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2009 Kawasaki KX450F
2009 Kawasaki KX250F
2002 Suzuki GSXR 600

4/29/2017 8:37 PM

Acidreamer wrote:

I think proof is in the replay dude. If you really think marvin made a mistake in that rut and was all giddy on the podium for a mistake you need help. He moved over for ryan because of team orders. We saw it in detroit i think it was too. I knew there was a rule against this

Since you seem to need this spelled out to you...

The decision to pull over could have been Marvin's entirely, with no "team orders" or suggestion from the team, in which case they wouldn't be guilty of fixing the race or whatever. Can you prove that they issued team orders? No, you cannot. Case closed.

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4/29/2017 8:37 PM

kiwifan wrote:

IF Marvin did pull over for Ryan, you are assuming KTM gave him an order to do so....unless you have proof then lets stop the conjecture eh?

It was obviously orchestrated. I was waiting for it to happen (kinda expected it a lap or so earlier). But ... so what?

Why's this even worth discussing? Have people actually watched professional racing before?

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F1. MotoGP. MXGP. Screw the rest.

4/29/2017 8:39 PM

Photo

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"Life is Too Short To Last Long"

4/29/2017 8:44 PM

Motodave15 wrote: Photo

Looks like proof to me

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4/29/2017 8:45 PM

Marvin thought he was gonna shit his pants.

Case closed.

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4/29/2017 8:46 PM

Motodave15 wrote: Photo

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Looks like proof to me

People see what they want to see....

I do not remember this much of an explosion when Webb "stalled it" outdoors...

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

4/29/2017 8:46 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/29/2017 10:26 PM

Oh boy! Proof! This should be interesting. KTM, Roger, Marvin, and Carlos...a bunch of Euros

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4/29/2017 8:47 PM

Like Dungey said "It's just a dirt bike race".

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4/29/2017 8:47 PM

Motodave15 wrote: Photo

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Looks like proof to me

Exactly. No other reason for frankie to put ryan on the pitboard on the last lap unless hes signaling for musquin to let ryan by.

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4/29/2017 8:48 PM

Who cares. We've seen it a million times over the years. Marvin is not in the championship hunt and of course he's going to let him by. Be a dick move if he didn't. KTM should do everything to have a rider win a championship. If the roles were reversed then dungey would move over. This is a team and bike manufacturer championship we are talking about. It's very important . Could you imagine how bad it would be if dungey ended up losing over 2 or 3 points because marvin didn't let him by? That would be very bad.

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4/29/2017 8:50 PM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Looks like proof to me

Not proof of anything.

For all anyone knows that says 1 lap to go. Ryan in 2nd.

Eli was fighting a 1 man war and choked. All he can do is hope shit goes bad for Dungey next week and he wins.

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4/29/2017 8:51 PM

Oh for fucks sake of course he pulled over

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4/29/2017 8:53 PM

kiwifan wrote:

IF Marvin did pull over for Ryan, you are assuming KTM gave him an order to do so....unless you have proof then lets stop the conjecture eh?

Acidreamer wrote:

I think proof is in the replay dude. If you really think marvin made a mistake in that rut and was all giddy on the podium for a mistake you need help. He moved over for ryan because of team orders. We saw it in detroit i think it was too. I knew there was a rule against this

zehn wrote:

Since you seem to need this spelled out to you...

The decision to pull over could have been Marvin's entirely, with no "team orders" or suggestion from the team, in which case they wouldn't be guilty of fixing the race or whatever. Can you prove that they issued team orders? No, you cannot. Case closed.

Looks like you spoke too soon bud. Pitboards show it.

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2009 Kawasaki KX450F
2009 Kawasaki KX250F
2002 Suzuki GSXR 600

4/29/2017 8:53 PM

cali11 wrote:

Oh for fucks sake of course he pulled over

I don't think anybody is denying that at this point

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4/29/2017 8:54 PM

cali11 wrote:

Oh for fucks sake of course he pulled over

LMAO, I know.

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F1. MotoGP. MXGP. Screw the rest.

4/29/2017 8:55 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/29/2017 8:57 PM

Acidreamer wrote:

I think proof is in the replay dude. If you really think marvin made a mistake in that rut and was all giddy on the podium for a mistake you need help. He moved over for ryan because of team orders. We saw it in detroit i think it was too. I knew there was a rule against this

zehn wrote:

Since you seem to need this spelled out to you...

The decision to pull over could have been Marvin's entirely, with no "team orders" or suggestion from the team, in which case they wouldn't be guilty of fixing the race or whatever. Can you prove that they issued team orders? No, you cannot. Case closed.

Acidreamer wrote:

Looks like you spoke too soon bud. Pitboards show it.

Pitboard was posted in the race thread several hours ago, I had already seen it. All we see is that is says "Ryan". Does it say pull over? Give up the lead? No, it doesn't. It says "Ryan". My guess is Frankie was just reminding him of the situation.

I don't suppose you listened to Decoster's interview yet?

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4/29/2017 8:55 PM

Brownstone322 wrote:

It was obviously orchestrated. I was waiting for it to happen (kinda expected it a lap or so earlier). But ... so what?

Why's this even worth discussing? Have people actually watched professional racing before?

I've watching professional racing of all sorts for 40+ years. Like most others SX is scored individually with rules against race fixing. Of course team tactics are often at play in all racing sports but carried out with more subtle, professional skills. Musquin's execution of team tactics was amateurish. His excuse mockery. But he, Dungey and DeCoster are deservedly well liked and respected. It'll blow over and be soon forgotten unless Tomac loses the series by the points Musquin gifted Dungey.

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4/29/2017 8:56 PM

All of this is a deflection for the fact that Tomac choked. IF Dungey wins the title, it won't be because of team tactics, it will be because Tomac had a mental meltdown and a few other so-so results.

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4/29/2017 8:57 PM

Real Mr. K.I.A. wrote:

Not proof of anything.

For all anyone knows that says 1 lap to go. Ryan in 2nd.

Eli was fighting a 1 man war and choked. All he can do is hope shit goes bad for Dungey next week and he wins.

Marvin already knew that was Ryan behind him...they ride together every day. The pit board seems like a little reminder..."Don't forget about Ryan and his championship."

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4/29/2017 8:58 PM

If the order was to pull over, why would Marvin risk passing Dungey in the first place?

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No Signature.

4/29/2017 8:59 PM

Motodave15 wrote: Photo

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Looks like proof to me

Real Mr. K.I.A. wrote:

Not proof of anything.

For all anyone knows that says 1 lap to go. Ryan in 2nd.

Eli was fighting a 1 man war and choked. All he can do is hope shit goes bad for Dungey next week and he wins.

Exactly

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4/29/2017 9:04 PM

Motodave15 wrote: Photo

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Looks like proof to me

mxjon454 wrote:

Exactly. No other reason for frankie to put ryan on the pitboard on the last lap unless hes signaling for musquin to let ryan by.

That proves nothing. Now if it would have said "Let Ryan Bye"...wink

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4/29/2017 9:07 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/29/2017 9:08 PM

I dont see a problem, you posted the rules like your were going to prove beyond a doubt that they violated a rule. I dont know, but I have been reading the English a long time, and the rule clearly states, FIXED or PRE-ARRANGED.

So youre telling me that before the race (pre-arranged) KTM instructed Marvin to be in the lead (beating 18 other non team members) and Ryan in second until the last lap, and them swap positions? Engaging in a race that was fixed is how it was worded, and that would require the winner of the race to be known before the race started and that was not the case, Marvin made a decision during the race that he would support his team and friend by relinquishing his position to his team mate.

The team and Marvin did NOT know who was going to win the race before they started, nobody knows who is going to win, they all try put themselves in a position to win. Team Orders mean that as the race unfolds one rider helps his Team by following orders to help his team mate by not hindering his progress toward achieving the teams goal. So even if Marvin was in 2nd and Ryan in 3rd, Team Orders are team orders and do not make a race result pre-determined or fixed. That would be fixed or predetermined if all the other teams were pulling over and letting Ryan by and blocking Eli.

I am sure Kawi love to tell JG to go out there and get the lead and keep it until Tomac can come take it from you on the last lap, but thats just isnt possible. I am pretty sure Kawi told Eli, go out there and get the Holeshot, and ride away from these clowns every weekend, and told JG not to hold him up or try to pass him. Is that pre-arranged or fixed?

Get over it people.

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2013 CRF450R Factory Connection revalve, All stock.

4/29/2017 9:09 PM

Feel bad for Ryan. Do not sense he is a man that wants a title this way. Especially at retirement. Tough to sleep in these cases.

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4/29/2017 9:16 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/29/2017 9:18 PM

We all saw it coming, and there is a reason for that! What's so special about Eli Tomac, or bad about Dungey that fans are upset about this, and the fact that Dungey has the lead with less wins? I don't get it nothing has changed over the years other than the names.

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4/29/2017 9:16 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/29/2017 9:19 PM

Gee you guys way over analyze every frigging thing, just because it says Ryan on the pit board then that is the proof it says, 'pull over for Ryan'??? unbelievable. A few of you need to tighten your sprockets, take an asprin and have a lie down.

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L