The quads and Justin Hill on a 450...

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2/27/2018 6:21 AM

...were exciting! Lots of talk here this week about jumps being too big and the bikes being too fast, but it's cool as hell when a more talented rider can use the extra power of the 450 to separate themselves from the rest.

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2/27/2018 6:36 AM

I agree. The “450 has too much power” mindset is rediculous.

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2/27/2018 6:50 AM

Stoked to see Hill get in the mix. He brings the excitement that Stewart used to bring doing sections like that, and pushes the rest of the field at the same time.

But let's give credit where it's due also, Bagget did that section first.

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2/27/2018 6:52 AM

Kwad up

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2/27/2018 6:58 AM

aeffertz wrote:

Kwad up

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2/27/2018 6:59 AM

scootch wrote:

Stoked to see Hill get in the mix. He brings the excitement that Stewart used to bring doing sections like that, and pushes ...more

He did. I was at this race and watched qualifying from along that sideline. It was an exciting section and I liked watching them size it up and try different things. I actually thought Bagget was going to have a better night because he did figure it out early, but by race time nobody had it dialed as well as Hill. He looked head and shoulders better than everyone out there, including Tomac, Musquin and Anderson. It was Stew-ish. Been a long time since one rider stood out that way, in my opinion.

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2/27/2018 7:36 AM

A 110 pound rider can jump further than a 160 pound rider

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2/27/2018 8:42 AM

From listening to the audio on the on-board cameras, you can hear where the 450 guys are barely squirting it to get over some jumps. I think we all kinda knew that at some point, somebody was gonna figure out how to go ahead and let'er rip a bit more, while not killing themselves on short landing areas.

Maybe Hill is next level on that, and if that is the case, he can do what Stew did, or RC did, and come up with a new style that is good for at least a second a lap. Chances are this is gonna end up with the medics, but what if it doesn't? What if Hill can pull it off race after race? Then it is gonna be time for everyone to nut-up even more than they do now? I can't imagine them going even faster through those giant rhythm sections, but the sport is bound to progress again at some point.

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Die Antwoord

2/27/2018 8:56 AM

A table is not a quad, but we all are using that term. It was a focal point that made that race entertaining, maybe more so than the sand. I don't see how it could have been made any safer, the landings were smooth and gradual and apparently forgiving for everyone other than Seely. No way would I want to be rid of 450's, or ever presume to tell pro rider's what they should be riding. I've said before, 250's aren't fair to the "big" buys and I don't think they should all be artificially ruled out of being competitive like the jockey's in MotoGP.

Hill looked great, for a Heat and a few hot minutes. When he remounted, the fire had gone out. Extreme jumping has paid off for him (his brother's influence?) and for tracks that allow it he will use that trick out of his bag. It's a great start and we are due to see more of the next generation start to step up, especially with all the older generation walking wounded.

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2/27/2018 8:56 AM

kburgie wrote:

...were exciting! Lots of talk here this week about jumps being too big and the bikes being too fast, but it's cool as hell ...more

Absolutely loved it.
I really miss the days and track designs when Cooper was mixing it up and putting together jumps and rhythm sections that no one else was doing.

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2/27/2018 9:03 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/27/2018 9:08 AM

gt80rider wrote:

From listening to the audio on the on-board cameras, you can hear where the 450 guys are barely squirting it to get over some ...more

There's certainly a possibility of some egos coming into play as well. If the new guy comes in and starts uncorking the big stuff, the resident big stuff uncorkers are going to have their mechanics hold their beer. Guys like Baggett, Tomac, Anderson, and even Brayton come to mind. I think we saw a bit of this with Seely this weekend as well. Unfortunately, pushing the edge of gnarly is going to sting from time to time. Roczen is a prime example of this when he tried to wick up the aggression a bit.

I'm not certain we are near the age that the big stuff is going to be the new norm and we don't think twice about it though. It's more of a crime of opportunity at the moment and I don't see anyone coming up in the 250 class that is once in a generation talent with the cajones to really take us to the next level. I can see a kid like Deegan or maybe Ryder D becoming that but that's certainly no guarantee. Hill may also be the guy. Who knows? All I can say is, it's hard to progress when a rider makes a mistake and the consequences to the human body are so much more significant than they used to be. That can only go so far so I wouldn't be shocked if that progress starts to slow significantly.

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2/27/2018 10:24 AM

Johnny Depp wrote:

A table is not a quad, but we all are using that term. It was a focal point that made that race entertaining, maybe more so ...more

I think they’re referring to the quad into the corner, after the table.

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2/27/2018 10:25 AM

Johnny Depp wrote:

A table is not a quad, but we all are using that term. It was a focal point that made that race entertaining, maybe more so ...more

Here's how I look at it, if the riders doing it with the balls to do it call it a quad...then it's a damn quad. QUAD laughing

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2/27/2018 10:29 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/27/2018 10:31 AM

Johnny Depp wrote:

A table is not a quad, but we all are using that term. It was a focal point that made that race entertaining, maybe more so ...more

chad_111 wrote:

I think they’re referring to the quad into the corner, after the table.

The single-table-single was/is being called a quad. We don't have a better word for it. Follows this logic:

Single to top of table = double
Single to downside of table = triple
Single, over table, to downside of next single = quad

But yeah, the place where Hill showed his mettle was the following quad into the corner.

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2/27/2018 10:31 AM

ML512 wrote:

Here's how I look at it, if the riders doing it with the balls to do it call it a quad...then it's a damn quad. QUAD laughing

A'men.

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2/27/2018 11:00 AM

a table is just a double filled in.
Brake said LIT telemetry was saying that quad into the corner was 92' in second gear.

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2/27/2018 11:34 AM

It was nice to see a top rider doing something different than the other top guys. After his heat race, I was looking forward to the 450 main the most. First time I was that interested in a long time.

With that said, I’m really hoping he rides smart and within his limits. I’ll be content not watching him do something insane every race if it means he’s lining up healthy each week.

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2/27/2018 12:24 PM

Couple observations from this past weekend. I was in attendance and actually sat directly in front of the takeoff of the Quad into the corner. That whole section was very technical in nature and offered a multitude of lines all day and night long. The bowl berm 100% made the quad into the corner possible and was a great feature for sure. Hill commented that he was clicking 3rd in the air over the table and grabbing a big handful upon landing. I actually jumped out of my seat with excitement the first time he hit it. I have some supercross track knowledge/experience from the late 90's early 2000's and I can say the jumps seem much less peaked and way more forgiving then back in the day. Regarding the power of the modern 450 its crazy for me to listen to the throttle application on a SX track current day compared to 15 years ago. Whomever commented earlier about the blip blip blip around the track is absolutely right, very few instances of extended throttle usage. Pretty interesting to pay attention to for sure. I enjoyed watching Hill apply his talent to the 450 and it definitely added some excitement for the fans.

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2/27/2018 1:16 PM

chaseodc wrote:

Couple observations from this past weekend. I was in attendance and actually sat directly in front of the takeoff of the Quad ...more

One of Mathes' pods last week he mentioned they ran some telemetry to figure out what percent of a lap a rider was wide open around a SX track. A rider thought it was something high, like 50% of the time and it was like 20% and that was in 2 stroke days. The blip blip blip couldn't be more accurate. That number is even less now.

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2/27/2018 1:25 PM

scootch wrote:

Stoked to see Hill get in the mix. He brings the excitement that Stewart used to bring doing sections like that, and pushes ...more

It's cool to watch him ride, but let's pump the brakes on the Stewart-like part.

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2/27/2018 2:40 PM

I really liked that section Hill was doing. You know, Triple, TRIPLE, quad.....


















grin Oh man, I can't believe we're going to argue this again!

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Braaapin' aint easy.

2/27/2018 2:48 PM

Hahaha thank fuck there are still some people in this world that see 3 object instead of 4! Dont be the nerd at the track saying you knocked out that “double” table top
Photo

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2/27/2018 2:59 PM

chaseodc wrote:

Couple observations from this past weekend. I was in attendance and actually sat directly in front of the takeoff of the Quad ...more

I have some supercross track knowledge/experience from the late 90's early 2000's and I can say the jumps seem much less peaked and way more forgiving then back in the day.

late 90's early 2000 were far less forgiving . the jumps were more peaked

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2/27/2018 3:24 PM

Was it worth losing Seely?

Not to mention if it wasn't for Matthes, we'd have lost Bagget.

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Cheers, Crush
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2/27/2018 3:59 PM

NATEP231 wrote:

Hahaha thank fuck there are still some people in this world that see 3 object instead of 4! Dont be the nerd at the track ...more

Exactly! LMAO

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2/27/2018 4:01 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/27/2018 4:02 PM

Crush wrote:

Was it worth losing Seely?

Not to mention if it wasn't for Matthes, we'd have lost Bagget.

It wasn't the jumps fault. It's a lot of fun to pretend that Matthes saved a life, but BB4 would have rode that out. When we see a BIKE stuck in the net, then we'll know we are saving lives. It will happen.

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2/27/2018 4:48 PM

NATEP231 wrote:

Hahaha thank fuck there are still some people in this world that see 3 object instead of 4! Dont be the nerd at the track ...more

Johnny Depp wrote:

Exactly! LMAO

With slicks.

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2/27/2018 5:49 PM
Edited Date/Time: 2/27/2018 5:52 PM

Crush wrote:

Was it worth losing Seely?

Not to mention if it wasn't for Matthes, we'd have lost Bagget.

Johnny Depp wrote:

It wasn't the jumps fault. It's a lot of fun to pretend that Matthes saved a life, but BB4 would have rode that out. When we ...more

Really? Watch how fast he hits the net and his trajectory...



Now freeze frame it at 7 seconds, look how high he hits.

Now look at the stadium floor and wall behind it.

Now go back and look at the consequences of Davalos and Langston's similar crashes.

And even if he didn't/wasn't hurt... I still say Cole sitting in a hospital bed with a broken pelvis is reason enough not to have jumps that big and fast, and bikes that make it possible, at least in a rhythm section.
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Cheers, Crush
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2/27/2018 6:05 PM

NATEP231 wrote:

Hahaha thank fuck there are still some people in this world that see 3 object instead of 4! Dont be the nerd at the track ...more

Johnny Depp wrote:

Exactly! LMAO

If you can jump onto it and off of it I class it as two jumps..
And don't say it's a triple cause it's not.. there's two landing areas one is further than the other

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why am I reading this? ..... Oh christ, now I'm posting...... shiiiiiiiit!!

2/27/2018 8:02 PM

Crush wrote:

Was it worth losing Seely?

Not to mention if it wasn't for Matthes, we'd have lost Bagget.

Johnny Depp wrote:

It wasn't the jumps fault. It's a lot of fun to pretend that Matthes saved a life, but BB4 would have rode that out. When we ...more

Crush wrote:

Really? Watch how fast he hits the net and his trajectory...



Now freeze frame it at 7 seconds, look how high he hits.
...more

Yep the bike definitely hit the net. I guess I was thinking of the aftermath when only Blake was stuck in it. Still think he could have rode it out on the firework dust covered polished non soda covered concrete without rubber mats. By the way, a PW50 with a stuck throttle could have launched into the stands too.

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