The premier factory team?

RandyS
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RandyS
Edited Date/Time 1/4/2019 10:07am
I just watched the Honda intro and Seely said "The highest point a rider can get to is to be a part of the Honda team". There was a point when that was a totally true statement. I don't think it is any more. I don't think there is a true top team any more. If I had to pick one I'd have to say Kawasaki or KTM based on the last 10 years. Is Honda still the goal?
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mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 1/3/2019 2:26pm
1/3/2019 2:26pm
1) KTM
2) Honda
3) Husky/Kawasaki
4) Yamaha
5) Suzuki

That's how I see it. Now, if I were the rider that list would be a totally different order.
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agn5009
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agn5009 1/3/2019 2:27pm
1/3/2019 2:27pm Edited Date/Time 1/3/2019 2:28pm
Hondas glory days were when they had McGrath.

Kawi is pretty elite. They had stew, then RV and now Eli. Doesn’t get much better than that. The only piece they were missing was Dungey.
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Ray_MXS
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Ray_MXS 1/3/2019 2:28pm
1/3/2019 2:28pm
I would also say that if Honda paid my bills Silly
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Squirrelings 1/3/2019 2:28pm
1/3/2019 2:28pm
Honda might be the goal for some. Dungey is the only guy in the US that has won a lot of titles for KTM on the 450. They have the baker thing going for them which some riders seem to like, others not so much. I don't think there is a premier factory team, but Kawasaki has seemed like the team to beat for quite a while.
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ga_pike
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ga_pike 1/3/2019 2:32pm
1/3/2019 2:32pm
agn5009 wrote:
Hondas glory days were when they had McGrath. Kawi is pretty elite. They had stew, then RV and now Eli. Doesn’t get much better than that...
Hondas glory days were when they had McGrath.

Kawi is pretty elite. They had stew, then RV and now Eli. Doesn’t get much better than that. The only piece they were missing was Dungey.
RJ/Bailey/Omara/Hannah/Lechien/Holland/Dymond... 85/86/87 Factory Honda would like a word
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agn5009
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agn5009 1/3/2019 2:34pm
1/3/2019 2:34pm
agn5009 wrote:
Hondas glory days were when they had McGrath. Kawi is pretty elite. They had stew, then RV and now Eli. Doesn’t get much better than that...
Hondas glory days were when they had McGrath.

Kawi is pretty elite. They had stew, then RV and now Eli. Doesn’t get much better than that. The only piece they were missing was Dungey.
ga_pike wrote:
RJ/Bailey/Omara/Hannah/Lechien/Holland/Dymond... 85/86/87 Factory Honda would like a word
You’re absolutely right. I was just thinking more along the lines of recent because he’s asking who the top current team to ride for would be. I don’t think anyone would argue Honda notbbeing the best from MC back.
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loftyair
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loftyair 1/3/2019 2:34pm
1/3/2019 2:34pm
Suzuki-mid '70's.
Yamaha-late '70's
Honda-through McGrath.
Yamaha-again for a bit.
Kawasaki- since rc, until now.
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Track and Trail 1/3/2019 2:40pm
1/3/2019 2:40pm
You really shouldn't be considered the best team if you haven't won in forever, but Honda still gets that consideration. It's in the mystique, the money, the potential, and the color red.
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Squirrelings 1/3/2019 2:52pm
1/3/2019 2:52pm Edited Date/Time 1/3/2019 2:53pm
Track and Trail wrote:
You really shouldn't be considered the best team if you haven't won in forever, but Honda still gets that consideration. It's in the mystique, the money...
You really shouldn't be considered the best team if you haven't won in forever, but Honda still gets that consideration. It's in the mystique, the money, the potential, and the color red.
It's in the fans of the era they dominated who make up the majority of people still riding and racing dirt bikes.
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TeamGreen 1/3/2019 3:16pm
1/3/2019 3:16pm Edited Date/Time 1/3/2019 3:17pm
I'm wonder what y'all think the answer would be from the rider's perspective: what team would YOU PICK if you're looking at it from the perspective of the rider that wants the best environment for your personal growth and success ...as a rider?

Defined: a place where you'd enjoy the people, the testing and develoment, the racing and hopefully winning...
As a Team.

Where's that team for you?
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RichieW13 1/3/2019 3:23pm
1/3/2019 3:23pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
1) KTM 2) Honda 3) Husky/Kawasaki 4) Yamaha 5) Suzuki That's how I see it. Now, if I were the rider that list would be a...
1) KTM
2) Honda
3) Husky/Kawasaki
4) Yamaha
5) Suzuki

That's how I see it. Now, if I were the rider that list would be a totally different order.
6 brands in the top 5!
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RichieW13
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RichieW13 1/3/2019 3:29pm
1/3/2019 3:29pm
RandyS wrote:
I just watched the Honda intro and Seely said "The highest point a rider can get to is to be a part of the Honda team"...
I just watched the Honda intro and Seely said "The highest point a rider can get to is to be a part of the Honda team". There was a point when that was a totally true statement. I don't think it is any more. I don't think there is a true top team any more. If I had to pick one I'd have to say Kawasaki or KTM based on the last 10 years. Is Honda still the goal?
I think something that gives Honda a little extra prestige is that it is internally funded (I think). Kawasaki has Monster Energy logos all over their gear. KTM has Red Bull. Yamaha has Monster. Husky has Rock Star. Suzuki has JGR/Auto Trader.
RandyS
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RandyS 1/3/2019 3:30pm
1/3/2019 3:30pm
RichieW13 wrote:
I think something that gives Honda a little extra prestige is that it is internally funded (I think). Kawasaki has Monster Energy logos all over their...
I think something that gives Honda a little extra prestige is that it is internally funded (I think). Kawasaki has Monster Energy logos all over their gear. KTM has Red Bull. Yamaha has Monster. Husky has Rock Star. Suzuki has JGR/Auto Trader.
And you get a 2019 Ridgeline...oh wait.
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deanwhite51
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deanwhite51 1/3/2019 3:32pm
1/3/2019 3:32pm
If where talking about purely american motorcross and supercross.. Other then them having Dungey.. I don't see the success with KTM?
Hands down The top 2 would be Honda or Kawasaki.

If its on a global basis... over the past 10 years.. then yes, KTM has been at the top stepin regards to riders. but then yet again.. All the riders who are on KTM teams have been on them bikes for the past 10 years. Could be wrong, But i cant name a younger rider who has gone to KTM in the premier class and won.


Personally... I Don't feel like KTM has that history or champion feel to it like the factory Honda and Kawi team does. But hey, thats just me.

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mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 1/3/2019 3:33pm
1/3/2019 3:33pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
1) KTM 2) Honda 3) Husky/Kawasaki 4) Yamaha 5) Suzuki That's how I see it. Now, if I were the rider that list would be a...
1) KTM
2) Honda
3) Husky/Kawasaki
4) Yamaha
5) Suzuki

That's how I see it. Now, if I were the rider that list would be a totally different order.
RichieW13 wrote:
6 brands in the top 5!
Haha! I put Husky about the same as Kawi. Not quite on the same level as Honda and KTM, but still looked at pretty highly like Kawi.
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mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 1/3/2019 3:35pm
1/3/2019 3:35pm
deanwhite51 wrote:
If where talking about purely american motorcross and supercross.. Other then them having Dungey.. I don't see the success with KTM? Hands down The top 2...
If where talking about purely american motorcross and supercross.. Other then them having Dungey.. I don't see the success with KTM?
Hands down The top 2 would be Honda or Kawasaki.

If its on a global basis... over the past 10 years.. then yes, KTM has been at the top stepin regards to riders. but then yet again.. All the riders who are on KTM teams have been on them bikes for the past 10 years. Could be wrong, But i cant name a younger rider who has gone to KTM in the premier class and won.


Personally... I Don't feel like KTM has that history or champion feel to it like the factory Honda and Kawi team does. But hey, thats just me.

I put them on top for the reason of them being willing to put as much money out as they need to in order to make sure they have the best bike out there. Just like Honda in the 80's and early 90's with MC.
Squirrelings 1/3/2019 3:38pm
1/3/2019 3:38pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I put them on top for the reason of them being willing to put as much money out as they need to in order to make...
I put them on top for the reason of them being willing to put as much money out as they need to in order to make sure they have the best bike out there. Just like Honda in the 80's and early 90's with MC.
You are assuming then that the factory KTM is the best bike out there? The production bikes weren't at the top of the tests this year.
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Silas444 1/3/2019 3:39pm
1/3/2019 3:39pm
loftyair wrote:
Suzuki-mid '70's.
Yamaha-late '70's
Honda-through McGrath.
Yamaha-again for a bit.
Kawasaki- since rc, until now.
Yamaha - the premier team in the late 70s? How ya figure? Bob Hannah? He hated his bike and he hated worse how the team was run!!!! Here's my take on the premier teams: CZ in the late sixties (largely because of the influence of DeCoster and Robert) and then Suzuki throughout the 70s (largely because of the influence of DeCoster) all the way up until 1982 when Honda became THEE premier team of all time (again - largely because of the influence of DeCoster). And in the years since DeCoster arrived at KTM, THEY have crawled up from the lower rungs and become the gold-standard (if you consider both the American and European teams). It's almost bizarre: he's just ONE GUY, but for the last half-century, if a motorcycle company gives him power and a workable budget, they not only win, they become the envy of the industry. Props.
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deanwhite51
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deanwhite51 1/3/2019 3:42pm
1/3/2019 3:42pm
deanwhite51 wrote:
If where talking about purely american motorcross and supercross.. Other then them having Dungey.. I don't see the success with KTM? Hands down The top 2...
If where talking about purely american motorcross and supercross.. Other then them having Dungey.. I don't see the success with KTM?
Hands down The top 2 would be Honda or Kawasaki.

If its on a global basis... over the past 10 years.. then yes, KTM has been at the top stepin regards to riders. but then yet again.. All the riders who are on KTM teams have been on them bikes for the past 10 years. Could be wrong, But i cant name a younger rider who has gone to KTM in the premier class and won.


Personally... I Don't feel like KTM has that history or champion feel to it like the factory Honda and Kawi team does. But hey, thats just me.

mattyhamz2 wrote:
I put them on top for the reason of them being willing to put as much money out as they need to in order to make...
I put them on top for the reason of them being willing to put as much money out as they need to in order to make sure they have the best bike out there. Just like Honda in the 80's and early 90's with MC.
But then... Have you seen how much Money they have put into Tomac and Roczens bike. Its known Kawi's Factory 450 has things that no other factory team does.

But if its about stock bikes for your average weekend rider, then get where your coming from.

But as far as factory 450's... the money in technology tomacs and roczens bike. well.. speaks for its self.
mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 1/3/2019 3:43pm
1/3/2019 3:43pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I put them on top for the reason of them being willing to put as much money out as they need to in order to make...
I put them on top for the reason of them being willing to put as much money out as they need to in order to make sure they have the best bike out there. Just like Honda in the 80's and early 90's with MC.
Squirrelings wrote:
You are assuming then that the factory KTM is the best bike out there? The production bikes weren't at the top of the tests this year.
No, I'm not assuming that at all. What may be the best for Marv isn't the best for Eli. I just probably should have worded it a bit different, but what I meant is that they are willing to spend whatever the need to in order to insure they are giving their riders the best bike they possibly can. Say Yamaha/Suzuki/Kawasaki are only willing to spend $3million on R&D for their bike, KTM is willing to spend even more. Maybe twice as much or three times as much or whatever it may be.
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mister2dt
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mister2dt 1/3/2019 3:44pm
1/3/2019 3:44pm
For prestige, Honda. For all the rest, currently?

Kawi
Honda
Yamaha
KTM/ Husky
Zook

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deanwhite51 1/3/2019 3:48pm
1/3/2019 3:48pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I put them on top for the reason of them being willing to put as much money out as they need to in order to make...
I put them on top for the reason of them being willing to put as much money out as they need to in order to make sure they have the best bike out there. Just like Honda in the 80's and early 90's with MC.
Squirrelings wrote:
You are assuming then that the factory KTM is the best bike out there? The production bikes weren't at the top of the tests this year.
mattyhamz2 wrote:
No, I'm not assuming that at all. What may be the best for Marv isn't the best for Eli. I just probably should have worded it...
No, I'm not assuming that at all. What may be the best for Marv isn't the best for Eli. I just probably should have worded it a bit different, but what I meant is that they are willing to spend whatever the need to in order to insure they are giving their riders the best bike they possibly can. Say Yamaha/Suzuki/Kawasaki are only willing to spend $3million on R&D for their bike, KTM is willing to spend even more. Maybe twice as much or three times as much or whatever it may be.
Argh i see i see haha,

see but that's where i disagree. i feel like Kawasaki are at that point with tomac. if you look out the past 2 years where they went with sensors on the forks, rear shock, linkages and wheels just to monitor how its preforming. i don't see any other bike on the track that has that.



mattyhamz2
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mattyhamz2 1/3/2019 3:56pm
1/3/2019 3:56pm
Squirrelings wrote:
You are assuming then that the factory KTM is the best bike out there? The production bikes weren't at the top of the tests this year.
mattyhamz2 wrote:
No, I'm not assuming that at all. What may be the best for Marv isn't the best for Eli. I just probably should have worded it...
No, I'm not assuming that at all. What may be the best for Marv isn't the best for Eli. I just probably should have worded it a bit different, but what I meant is that they are willing to spend whatever the need to in order to insure they are giving their riders the best bike they possibly can. Say Yamaha/Suzuki/Kawasaki are only willing to spend $3million on R&D for their bike, KTM is willing to spend even more. Maybe twice as much or three times as much or whatever it may be.
deanwhite51 wrote:
Argh i see i see haha, see but that's where i disagree. i feel like Kawasaki are at that point with tomac. if you look out...
Argh i see i see haha,

see but that's where i disagree. i feel like Kawasaki are at that point with tomac. if you look out the past 2 years where they went with sensors on the forks, rear shock, linkages and wheels just to monitor how its preforming. i don't see any other bike on the track that has that.



I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Yamaha, Suzuki and Honda all had monitors on the fork/shocks as well as other sensors throughout the bike. They're all spending big money on their bikes, but I think Yamaha spends the least out of them all with Suzuki spending a bit more than Yamaha but not nearly what the others do. KTM is constantly putting out a new bike while the others refine for a couple of years before a new bike comes out. But that's just my opinion and I don't expect everyone to agree with me. That's the beauty of humankind right? We all have our own freedom of thinking
craigathan404 1/3/2019 4:03pm
1/3/2019 4:03pm
KTM definitely has established themselves during the last decade. But that’s about it. How many titles in the USA before 2010....?Whistling

I’d say Honda and kawi are one and two. The rest I’m not really sure about Laughing
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deanwhite51 1/3/2019 4:04pm
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mattyhamz2 wrote:
No, I'm not assuming that at all. What may be the best for Marv isn't the best for Eli. I just probably should have worded it...
No, I'm not assuming that at all. What may be the best for Marv isn't the best for Eli. I just probably should have worded it a bit different, but what I meant is that they are willing to spend whatever the need to in order to insure they are giving their riders the best bike they possibly can. Say Yamaha/Suzuki/Kawasaki are only willing to spend $3million on R&D for their bike, KTM is willing to spend even more. Maybe twice as much or three times as much or whatever it may be.
deanwhite51 wrote:
Argh i see i see haha, see but that's where i disagree. i feel like Kawasaki are at that point with tomac. if you look out...
Argh i see i see haha,

see but that's where i disagree. i feel like Kawasaki are at that point with tomac. if you look out the past 2 years where they went with sensors on the forks, rear shock, linkages and wheels just to monitor how its preforming. i don't see any other bike on the track that has that.



mattyhamz2 wrote:
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Yamaha, Suzuki and Honda all had monitors on the fork/shocks as well as other sensors throughout the bike...
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Yamaha, Suzuki and Honda all had monitors on the fork/shocks as well as other sensors throughout the bike. They're all spending big money on their bikes, but I think Yamaha spends the least out of them all with Suzuki spending a bit more than Yamaha but not nearly what the others do. KTM is constantly putting out a new bike while the others refine for a couple of years before a new bike comes out. But that's just my opinion and I don't expect everyone to agree with me. That's the beauty of humankind right? We all have our own freedom of thinking
too dam right!!! Just need A1 to hurry up already
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haydos25
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haydos25 1/3/2019 4:08pm
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deanwhite51 wrote:
If where talking about purely american motorcross and supercross.. Other then them having Dungey.. I don't see the success with KTM? Hands down The top 2...
If where talking about purely american motorcross and supercross.. Other then them having Dungey.. I don't see the success with KTM?
Hands down The top 2 would be Honda or Kawasaki.

If its on a global basis... over the past 10 years.. then yes, KTM has been at the top stepin regards to riders. but then yet again.. All the riders who are on KTM teams have been on them bikes for the past 10 years. Could be wrong, But i cant name a younger rider who has gone to KTM in the premier class and won.


Personally... I Don't feel like KTM has that history or champion feel to it like the factory Honda and Kawi team does. But hey, thats just me.

I guess if you go back a bit in europe you can say both Roczen and Musquin were on other brands before moving over to KTM and winning titles. Both arguably would've won whether they were on the KTM or not though.

I kinda see what you mean in regards to KTM though. They dont have the history and nostalgia of a Yamaha or Honda in terms of remaining at the pinnacle of the sport for such a long time. Few could argue that in the last 10 years they haven't been putting up the best numbers.

Maybe in 20 years time when the kids who've grown up watching Dungey, Herlings, Roczen, Cairoli, Musquin, Jonass etc. are buying and restoring historic bikes they'll be building up a 2012 Factory edition or something instead of a 96 MC replica.
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deanwhite51 1/3/2019 4:14pm
1/3/2019 4:14pm
deanwhite51 wrote:
If where talking about purely american motorcross and supercross.. Other then them having Dungey.. I don't see the success with KTM? Hands down The top 2...
If where talking about purely american motorcross and supercross.. Other then them having Dungey.. I don't see the success with KTM?
Hands down The top 2 would be Honda or Kawasaki.

If its on a global basis... over the past 10 years.. then yes, KTM has been at the top stepin regards to riders. but then yet again.. All the riders who are on KTM teams have been on them bikes for the past 10 years. Could be wrong, But i cant name a younger rider who has gone to KTM in the premier class and won.


Personally... I Don't feel like KTM has that history or champion feel to it like the factory Honda and Kawi team does. But hey, thats just me.

haydos25 wrote:
I guess if you go back a bit in europe you can say both Roczen and Musquin were on other brands before moving over to KTM...
I guess if you go back a bit in europe you can say both Roczen and Musquin were on other brands before moving over to KTM and winning titles. Both arguably would've won whether they were on the KTM or not though.

I kinda see what you mean in regards to KTM though. They dont have the history and nostalgia of a Yamaha or Honda in terms of remaining at the pinnacle of the sport for such a long time. Few could argue that in the last 10 years they haven't been putting up the best numbers.

Maybe in 20 years time when the kids who've grown up watching Dungey, Herlings, Roczen, Cairoli, Musquin, Jonass etc. are buying and restoring historic bikes they'll be building up a 2012 Factory edition or something instead of a 96 MC replica.
On that last bit... that is crazy to think that all of that could easily happen! can you imagine in 20 years time rebuilding a old 450 as a dungey replica! its expensive enough now trying to doing a replica Pro Circuit KX125 Build hahahha
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731chopper 1/3/2019 4:24pm
1/3/2019 4:24pm Edited Date/Time 1/3/2019 4:29pm
Kawasaki for Supercross and Pro Motocross.

KTM for MXGP.

In the US here is the breakdown for the championships during the last 10 years (20 championships total (SX/MX).
Kawasaki - 8
KTM - 6
Suzuki - 4
Husqvarna - 1
Yamaha - 1
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RMT
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RMT 1/3/2019 4:26pm
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Decoster was at Honda for some so so years with not many wins. He was also at Suzuki for awhile with not much success and then RC came along.

Motocross is mainly rider as proven by fast guys winning on different brands. RC - Kawasaki,Honda and Suzuki. MC - Kawasaki,Honda, Yamaha. Roczen - Suzuki, KTM, Suzuki and now Honda. Tomac - Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki. You could have the best bike, team and team manager out there, but it you don't have one of the few alien fast guys, you will not be winning much.

That said, I agree, Honda will be the top team for many as they were dominant during many of our formative years. The rest come and go.

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