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Is to have them race the same series for multiple years.
If Tomac went to Europe and raced the entire MXGP series and lost, People would say it’s because he didn’t know the tracks as well. Same as if Herlings came to the US. Of one off race here or there does not tell anybody who’s faster. Guys have off races all the time.
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I tend to agree but I think in this case the eye test works just fine. I think Tomac and Herlings are probably close speed wise (excluding deep sand) but that's about it. Herlings has Tomac covered in pretty much all other aspects of the sport. He's a better starter, better passer, has better racecraft and can get up from a crash without it taking five minutes.
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Give it up. Herlings just wiped his shorts with Tomac! End of story.
They may be comparable in speed, but Tomac can't start to save his life. With a start Herlings will just cruise around at the same pace as Tomac and take home all the $.
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FillmoreSouth wrote:
I dunno about everyone else, but I already know.
True that. A fucking blind man could see who's faster. Matter of fact the blind man could make a mistake and still be right as there are a bunch that are faster...
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I just spent two days in the mud in south Michigan. It was very obvious who was faster. I'm a big fan of both Tomac and Barcia but they both got beat straight up on their own turf.
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i don't know bro, i think if Herlings came here for a full AMA outdoor series he would win more than half the races. if this race wasn't a wake-up call to ALL of the riders on the AMA circuit then i don't know what was.
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How damn important can it be to know whether a dutch guy or an american guy is better?
Does it make you guys sleep better at night knowing "your" series is beating the other?
It's becoming beyond ridiculous
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If Herlings and Cairoli came to the US, they’d finish 1-2 unless 2016 Roczen returns. If any AMA riders went there, 3rd is the best they could do. Simple as that.
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...is to win. That's how you'll "know."
No excuses. Only losers make excuses. It's on us to learn from our mistakes, up our game and give 'em hell next year.
BT20 👉 02/20/20 👉#TICKLETIMEBITCHES
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Kennyfreemoney wrote:
Is to have them race the same series for multiple years.
If Tomac went to Europe and raced the entire MXGP series and lost, People would say it’s because he didn’t know the tracks as well. Same as if Herlings came to the US. Of one off race here or there does not tell anybody who’s faster. Guys have off races all the time.
Normally i would agree, but with the obvious facts that tomac often seems to forget his brain at Home, chokes when something goes wrong and obviously aint nearly as wellrounded when it comes to being fast in hard conditions its already settled on who is the better rider and no one could argue Against this if they use their brain and ask themselves on what makes a good mx racer ( being able to ride every type of tracks and terrain etc). Think about this to, ALL of the ama riders struggled with the conditions yesterday but keep in mind now that most mxgp tracks are just as rough as red bud was yesterday but even more technical and more narrow, more often than not they are even worse than red bud yesterday. I have no doubt that tomac could beat herlings on a lot of well prepped and groomed tracks but those tracks Only exists in the US.
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It might be that us old guys have to really adjust to the times.
When I was growing up, the USA won all the MXdNs. Every one, for more than a decade. We absolutely crushed this race, and it was a foregone conclusion that we'd win. Everybody knew it, and even though Ward, Johnson, Bailey and the like would give praise to the Euros, everyone really knew who was faster.
Now that it not only isn't the case, but the argument could be made that we're not even in contention for the win, it doesn't sit well. I have enough honor for the winners that I won't make excuses nor try to find "reasons" why our guys didn't win. Some of my peers may not be as gracious or understanding, however.
So in conclusion, hats off to France; Kudos to Herlings and Prado; and to America, let's not buy into the myth that Americans are better simply because we're Americans.
Braaapin' aint easy.
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It is sure easy to forget Tomac passing everyone last year at Glen Helen including Tony like they were amateurs. But don't let me stop you coming to random conclusions on one sandy slick track where Tomac got shitty starts. What we can say is that some of the Euro's are clearly a bit faster in these conditions. Is Glen Coldenhoff faster than Herlings? Yesterday he was. So don't make such dumb projections.
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I was there and it was tough to watch our boys get beat like that. They looked out of sorts all weekend, Barcia and Tomac couldn’t buy a start , maybe they make the podium (maybe) if they started better. Hats off to the Euros, they rode like there was A LOT on the line . Herlings is what he is but the kid is unreal and determined. Lots of cocky athletes out there and he may be, but he backs it up in spades. The racing was awesome imo just didn’t turn the way we wanted. I met a ton of great folks from all over the world that love moto , cheered for our guys and gave me some sh*t too. AC, Coldenhoff (has to be the ride of his life) Paulin, Prado etc.. all came to play and put it down when they needed to. Our boys simply didn’t . I think they worked their ass’s off and just didn’t have it. Huge challenge next year let’s see who shows up.
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karsmakers wrote:
It is sure easy to forget Tomac passing everyone last year at Glen Helen including Tony like they were amateurs. But don't let me stop you coming to random conclusions on one sandy slick track where Tomac got shitty starts. What we can say is that some of the Euro's are clearly a bit faster in these conditions. Is Glen Coldenhoff faster than Herlings? Yesterday he was. So don't make such dumb projections.
last year ? last year at USGP he won first moto , second moto Herlings won , Cairoli came second , Tomac 3rd
Time flies he , Glen Helen was 2016 .. 
the funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it
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TDeath21 wrote:
If Herlings and Cairoli came to the US, they’d finish 1-2 unless 2016 Roczen returns. If any AMA riders went there, 3rd is the best they could do. Simple as that.
Dumbest shit I’ve ever read and clearly you didn’t watch the nationals this year with Tomac
Realtor/ Moto dad/ from Sacramento CA —> Coeur d’Alene ID
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This is getting old. At Red Bud in the mud on October 7th 2018, Herlings was clearly faster. That is what I know for sure, beyond that I have no clue who will win the next time they meet. That's why they line em boy's. That's why we buy tickets or pay to watch on TV, because you just never know.............
It's fun to speculate, but that's all it is, speculation.
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Guys, I wasn’t posting as an excuse to say Herlings isn’t faster. I was saying it really doesn’t matter because they don’t race the same series, and probably never will. If I had to say which one was faster, I’d probably say Herlings. He was absolutely flying
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It is no longer a question of who is faster. Hell, the only question is, "Is Tomac as fast as the GP's 4th fastest person?" That is the real question.
Bottom line, I think we already past the line where the US will consistently be on the top step of a MXoN, if ever again. The SX series takes up most of the riders time and the Outdoors ends well before the MXoN. Combined, it just does not lend itself to the riders being as high in Outdoor speed and being ready for the MXoN when it comes.
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I watched every moto and Tomac would have nothing for those two. He’d start his late race charge and get to third. Maybe.
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peelout wrote:
i don't know bro, i think if Herlings came here for a full AMA outdoor series he would win more than half the races. if this race wasn't a wake-up call to ALL of the riders on the AMA circuit then i don't know what was.
Goddamn dude it was a fucking sandy muddy race. Tomac notoriously sucks in muddy conditions.
Tomac was clearly off the pace, no doubt. But you cannot tell me Tomac was looking 100%. He looked like total shit. He had a terrible race.... now no excuses but for Christ’s sakes if the track was dry and tomac was feeling 100% things certainly would have been different. Not saying he would definitely win, but he definitely has more in him than what we saw at MXoN.
We watched musquin pressure herlings and even set the fastest lap of the day at iron man, he just couldn’t make the pass... That tells me musqin is just as fast as herlings, and tomac beats musquin week in and week out. I’m positive Tomac would’ve beaten herlings that day if he wasn’t mindfucked over his championship
Why do you herlings fans lack the use of logic?
Herlings is fast no doubt. But he’s not unbeatable and he’s not “on another level”
Tomac has “smashed” all the European guys including cairoli twice in 2016 going 1/1 at two different GP”s and also went 1/3 LAST year at Jacksonville.
Tomac, cairoli, and herlings are each capable of beating one another....none is significantly faster than the other. I will say that herlings appears to be mentally stronger than Tomac and is consistently fastest week in and week out...... Tomac has off days. So herlings May be a stronger rider in that aspect..... but no he isn’t going to toy with him or “smash” him on a dry track
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We already know who's faster and they just smoked us this weekend at Red Bud. Our current champion finished almost 30 seconds behind the winner at our home track. Our riders gave it there best, did all we could ask for, and they lost.....
Deal with it!!!!!!!
