The future of SX / MX ?

I don’t get this obsession. Leave the sport be. It’s fine and I don’t want it to be “nascar” and hope it never will. Some things need adjusted like privateer pay outs and such but even now it seems like they took the fun out of riding dirtbikes like it was meant to be in the first place. From the ratings I saw so far this year it’s on the up and up. Instead of worrying about the future go enjoy spending time on your
bike with your 7 year old grandson bud.

Nascar's popularity is in decline.

I predict the future of SX/MX will always have a thread questioning the future of SX/MX.

My guess is it will not be in Stadiums in the future.
My guess is The Outdoors and SX will share purpose built facilities close to big cities.

When the promoter & sanctioning body sees teams as a customer and not a "partner", then you are not built for longterm success in motorsports.

The AMA is lazy. And I dont think Feld or MXsports are thinking longterm.

It is what it is.

Where is Team Tamm? Where is FOX Racing team?

Teams have always come and go that has not changed

Factory Yamaha is back/JGR Switched to Suzuki.
HEP is a new rig/team in the paddock.
MCR is now Factory Supported and HAS WON @ DAYTONA!
Butler MX’s “Rocky Mountain ATV/MC” has grown and receives even more KTM support.
Etc., etc., etc.

There are plenty of teams in the paddock and plenty of riders qualifying for the night program at SX. Seems to me there’s plenty of teams going to the Nationals, too.

The Sky Is Not Falling.

I think having the races in areas where there is lots to do (San Diego @ Petco) helps draw in the crowds

Riding dirt bikes will never blow up like baseball or football or basketball. It is a niche activity/pass time and so will it viewers/attendees be. Think about it like this, if your not into gymnastics are you going to go to a gymnastics tournament or watch it on TV? Most likely no, its not your thing. You may watch it if its on after what you were watching whatever you were wanting to watch but you wouldn’t go out of your way to watch it. Same with MX/SX. Also riding a dirt bike is dangerous and is a hobby for the more affluent as it is expensive. These are probably some of the reasons it doesn’t grow. It is what it is...

The screens are taking over. Gotta look up and go outside for dirt biking. I predict a steady decline for the next 30-40 years until the general population decide to rebel against screens.

Track and Trail wrote:

The screens are taking over. Gotta look up and go outside for dirt biking. I predict a steady decline for the next 30-40 years until the general population decide to rebel against screens.

That's an interesting concept.. It could possibly become a virtual experience in the future..

Hopefully the thread didn't come across as an obsession or the sky is falling. I was thinking more along the lines of the future of the sport. I've seen the progression in the last 4 decades & was more interested in how it will evolve into possibly E-bikes. I guess time will only tell..

The expense, the risks, the increasing catastrophic injuries, limited access to riding areas, and a disappearing middle class will force our sport to stagnate for the coming decades.

E bikes may help with access to ride, but unless they become much more affordable and are compatible with entry level riders they aren't going to make enough difference.

H4L wrote:

Hopefully the thread didn't come across as an obsession or the sky is falling. I was thinking more along the lines of the future of the sport. I've seen the progression in the last 4 decades & was more interested in how it will evolve into possibly E-bikes. I guess time will only tell..

Mainstream viewership, leading to merch sales to include “monstery” drinks, hats, shirts, etc. is the NASCAR model right? Also all the commercials leading to sales of Tide, whatever. You could make an argument that Freestyle has done way more to promote sales than MX/SX racing. NASCAR and Football are all about the personalities IMO. It’s gonna take personalities to grow MX/SX mainstream. Think what Evel, Pastrana, and even MC with 1-800-Collect did to grow the sport. Tiger for Golf.

So you’ve got that mainstream side, the circus, the show, then you have our enthusiast side. That’s the one I’m concerned about. PulpMX was saying the numbers for TV are up, so that’s a positive, but go to your local track, sad deal on the racing side. Less expensive bikes that won’t fall apart on a 60’ table would help grow the sport possibly. If those bikes are Ebikes even better, less mechanical knowledge needed. Get racing in urban areas, make it “cool”, win for enthusiasts and mainstream. Too bad Moto is dangerous or you could have K1 type riding places for the masses. Air conditioning under a big steel building. Rent and ride. Gear available. Let’s face it most get hooked on Moto once they try it.

But like @JustMX says Moto is expense, access, risks, etc. remain a problem for grassroots growth. Solve that and sport should grow.

I always hear about e bikes and more accessible places to ride, inner city and suburbs get mentioned a lot. E bikes don’t change the cost of land and the equipment to run a mx track. Closer to city there is less land available and at premium price so I am not sure why this gets mentioned so often. Most track owners say they are struggling to survive way out in the boonies where land is cheap with no restrictions. Please enlighten me...

JOE_SPROCKETS#1 wrote:

I don’t get this obsession. Leave the sport be. It’s fine and I don’t want it to be “nascar” and hope it never will. Some things need adjusted like privateer pay outs and such but even now it seems like they took the fun out of riding dirtbikes like it was meant to be in the first place. From the ratings I saw so far this year it’s on the up and up. Instead of worrying about the future go enjoy spending time on your
bike with your 7 year old grandson bud.

Where is the damn like button when you need it?

“The sport” this, “the sport” that, all I care about is riding my damn dirtbike and not GAF what anyone else thinks about them, me, or “the sport”.

Yes I’m bitching about bitching and it’s ironic, deal with it

brocster wrote:

I always hear about e bikes and more accessible places to ride, inner city and suburbs get mentioned a lot. E bikes don’t change the cost of land and the equipment to run a mx track. Closer to city there is less land available and at premium price so I am not sure why this gets mentioned so often. Most track owners say they are struggling to survive way out in the boonies where land is cheap with no restrictions. Please enlighten me...

The idea, partly, is one off, annual type races. Not unlike car racing through cities. More populated, more spectators. Could be put in at parks or even town squares with some urban style ramps. Lots of ideas. TV friendly, spectator friendly. Think promotional events.

For more permanent facilities plenty of open unused areas with rotting infrastructure, tear that out put in a track. Land donated by city. And not 100% big cities...lots of smaller cities where track can be near homes or a trailer park and land isn’t that expensive. Idea being not long travel to boonies, more people see the sport as doable.

Not gonna lie, I don’t give a poo about Ebikes, I see them as toys, but it’s another avenue to help the sport grow or maintain. But some guys are kicking ass on them at the local level. Love my gassers, but I’ve been passed by an Ebike. SMH.

When I watch some IndyCar or Sportbike racing, I think SX and MX are killing it attendance wise.
Well, maybe not MX because it hasn’t been picked up by a major tv channel, but people still attend.

I remember that days of Al Jr. in IndyCar and Nicky Hayden and other greats in AMA Superbike racing and the attendance decline is breathtaking.

After the recession of 08, lots of changes. One thing that hasn’t changed, dirt bike fans are hard core.

I do think there is a market for a new $6000OTD (Can) quality bike from one of the big 6. 2012 technology is fine with me.

Climbing gas prices don’t help though. Local Can. MX national is getting expensive, but diesel fuel is big bucks in Canada.

It will never be NASCAR. Car racing is very relatable. Most every spectator drives on asphalt daily.
MX is a fringe Motorsport and that's ok. I am just glad most every SX/MX race is on TV.

I wonder how MX viewership compares to any other Motorsport except car racing?

was thinking about this just the other day.

Here's what's going to change our sport: Someone is going to die. Seriously. Someone is going to crash and die live on TV because of some stupid track in SX. He'll hit a tough block that a flagger didn't move quick enough, will fly off the track and land on the concrete and die or some such similar scenario.

When he dies, the TV talking heads are going to play it on repeat. When they do, they're going to talk about it. When they do, they're going to mention that this guy that just died would have made a pathetic sum of money for 14th place in the SX race. Then they're going to go after FELD and start the question of "Why do you pay your racers such a pathetic sum of moneY?"

When they do, the riders will form a union and the OEMs/FELD won't be able to stop them because of the bad publicity. When they do, the payouts will quintuple. FELD will scream, but the gates will be more full. The last place guy in the SX will still make a respectable living if he does it each weekend. Attendance will increase because of more racers. FELD will eventually be happier, but initially they will scream and whine. Canard will be on center stage as he'll speak to rider safety and fixing the tracks.

Just my .02.

Pro racing will do fine.

Loretta's will do fine.

Local moto is on the way out. Gen. Y and Z will not have the means to go racing or take their kids racing. Many are not even having kids due to economics and such. Some are not even leaving the nest.

The sport got too expensive when we switched from two to four-strokes. It was affordable in the late 90s when I got started. That has changed.

Taxes are too high on low and median earners. This hurts the ability to go racing. The welfare state is hurting productive people who should be rewarded for their hard work via fair taxes.

Housing is too expensive. Immigration and immigrant children have flooded labor markets.

We can't expect local moto to thrive in such conditions. It's easy to identify problems. Solutions are the hard part.

Bry145 wrote:

Pro racing will do fine.

Loretta's will do fine.

Local moto is on the way out. Gen. Y and Z will not have the means to go racing or take their kids racing. Many are not even having kids due to economics and such. Some are not even leaving the nest.

The sport got too expensive when we switched from two to four-strokes. It was affordable in the late 90s when I got started. That has changed.

Taxes are too high on low and median earners. This hurts the ability to go racing. The welfare state is hurting productive people who should be rewarded for their hard work via fair taxes.

Housing is too expensive. Immigration and immigrant children have flooded labor markets.

We can't expect local moto to thrive in such conditions. It's easy to identify problems. Solutions are the hard part.

Regarding local moto, how about an entry level/beginner class with rules like:

No carbon fiber
No titanium
No rear shock linkage
Piston skirts must be as long as they are round

Other possibilities that I am not sure dont go to far.

No water cooling
No power valves

Point of all the rules would be to lower cost for the entry level guy.

ttugrad1793 wrote:

was thinking about this just the other day.

Here's what's going to change our sport: Someone is going to die. Seriously. Someone is going to crash and die live on TV because of some stupid track in SX. He'll hit a tough block that a flagger didn't move quick enough, will fly off the track and land on the concrete and die or some such similar scenario.

When he dies, the TV talking heads are going to play it on repeat. When they do, they're going to talk about it. When they do, they're going to mention that this guy that just died would have made a pathetic sum of money for 14th place in the SX race. Then they're going to go after FELD and start the question of "Why do you pay your racers such a pathetic sum of moneY?"

When they do, the riders will form a union and the OEMs/FELD won't be able to stop them because of the bad publicity. When they do, the payouts will quintuple. FELD will scream, but the gates will be more full. The last place guy in the SX will still make a respectable living if he does it each weekend. Attendance will increase because of more racers. FELD will eventually be happier, but initially they will scream and whine. Canard will be on center stage as he'll speak to rider safety and fixing the tracks.

Just my .02.

Jason Ciarletta passed away after a SX crash in 2004.

If you drive around Riverside, CA you may see some 412 stickers on trucks in his memory.

brocster wrote:

I always hear about e bikes and more accessible places to ride, inner city and suburbs get mentioned a lot. E bikes don’t change the cost of land and the equipment to run a mx track. Closer to city there is less land available and at premium price so I am not sure why this gets mentioned so often. Most track owners say they are struggling to survive way out in the boonies where land is cheap with no restrictions. Please enlighten me...

RCMXracing wrote:

The idea, partly, is one off, annual type races. Not unlike car racing through cities. More populated, more spectators. Could be put in at parks or even town squares with some urban style ramps. Lots of ideas. TV friendly, spectator friendly. Think promotional events.

For more permanent facilities plenty of open unused areas with rotting infrastructure, tear that out put in a track. Land donated by city. And not 100% big cities...lots of smaller cities where track can be near homes or a trailer park and land isn’t that expensive. Idea being not long travel to boonies, more people see the sport as doable.

Not gonna lie, I don’t give a poo about Ebikes, I see them as toys, but it’s another avenue to help the sport grow or maintain. But some guys are kicking ass on them at the local level. Love my gassers, but I’ve been passed by an Ebike. SMH.

Whats stopping them from doing that now with SX/MX and Combustion engines??? A dirt bike is no louder than and indy car, formula one, or concert even. I don’t think e bikes are going to bring anything to the “city” so people claim. They are full size and still will require the same circuit size and surface if we are going to call it SX or MX even. I don’t see how just an “e” is going to change it in a way we can see it in urban areas. I see e bike racing be oming its own niche sport with its own niche group of riders or that’s atleast what I hope happens.

F1 Auto Racing is proof, quality, entertainment and personality will create a path to the fans following you. It’s not in Primetime viewing and I doubt I will ever drive an F1 car on the streets!

I predict more sx and youth stream model for Mx.

brocster wrote:

I always hear about e bikes and more accessible places to ride, inner city and suburbs get mentioned a lot. E bikes don’t change the cost of land and the equipment to run a mx track. Closer to city there is less land available and at premium price so I am not sure why this gets mentioned so often. Most track owners say they are struggling to survive way out in the boonies where land is cheap with no restrictions. Please enlighten me...

Take away the noise and you get a lot more options for outdoor places to ride.

Take away exhaust and it opens up a lot of options for indoor racing. Any empty lowes , kmart, or factory can easily be converted to an indoor facility.

Sure land is cheaper out in the sticks, but the time and expense to get there is a big issue. Even more so with fuel prices climbing.

Picture a facility in an urban area with an indoor facility where you can rent, lease, or stable an ebike. You can show up like going to the health club, pound some laps, shower, and head to work.

Bikes could be reprogrammed for the level of rider and could have several different bikes with different spring rates for varying abilities and weights.

No airfilters, valve adjustments, etc. Charge it, go.

The possibility to simplify the sport for new participants as well as those that live in urban areas and/or have extreme demands on their time is amazing when you think about it.

Big picture, long term, if planned carefully it could be an amazing time for our sport.

brocster wrote:

I always hear about e bikes and more accessible places to ride, inner city and suburbs get mentioned a lot. E bikes don’t change the cost of land and the equipment to run a mx track. Closer to city there is less land available and at premium price so I am not sure why this gets mentioned so often. Most track owners say they are struggling to survive way out in the boonies where land is cheap with no restrictions. Please enlighten me...

RCMXracing wrote:

The idea, partly, is one off, annual type races. Not unlike car racing through cities. More populated, more spectators. Could be put in at parks or even town squares with some urban style ramps. Lots of ideas. TV friendly, spectator friendly. Think promotional events.

For more permanent facilities plenty of open unused areas with rotting infrastructure, tear that out put in a track. Land donated by city. And not 100% big cities...lots of smaller cities where track can be near homes or a trailer park and land isn’t that expensive. Idea being not long travel to boonies, more people see the sport as doable.

Not gonna lie, I don’t give a poo about Ebikes, I see them as toys, but it’s another avenue to help the sport grow or maintain. But some guys are kicking ass on them at the local level. Love my gassers, but I’ve been passed by an Ebike. SMH.

brocster wrote:

Whats stopping them from doing that now with SX/MX and Combustion engines??? A dirt bike is no louder than and indy car, formula one, or concert even. I don’t think e bikes are going to bring anything to the “city” so people claim. They are full size and still will require the same circuit size and surface if we are going to call it SX or MX even. I don’t see how just an “e” is going to change it in a way we can see it in urban areas. I see e bike racing be oming its own niche sport with its own niche group of riders or that’s atleast what I hope happens.

Nothing, they are in cities, in stadiums. SX already established so they get a stadium. Ebikes would start out niche, couldn’t support a stadium yet. Noise, lack of it, is what the E brings to the table. I love loud fire breathing machines, but gotta admit I can’t have a convo at an SX. It’s not exactly music. But could be boring AF! Dunno.

I remember my first personal computer with a dial up modem. I got the AOL disk. Many people didn’t get it. Why? That’s a waste of time they said. I used it for my first stock purchase and...wait for it...Email! I didn’t see 98% of what the internet was to be. Impossible to know the possibilities until it happens. We could still be living in caves if not for progress.

ttugrad1793 wrote:

was thinking about this just the other day.

Here's what's going to change our sport: Someone is going to die. Seriously. Someone is going to crash and die live on TV because of some stupid track in SX. He'll hit a tough block that a flagger didn't move quick enough, will fly off the track and land on the concrete and die or some such similar scenario.

When he dies, the TV talking heads are going to play it on repeat. When they do, they're going to talk about it. When they do, they're going to mention that this guy that just died would have made a pathetic sum of money for 14th place in the SX race. Then they're going to go after FELD and start the question of "Why do you pay your racers such a pathetic sum of moneY?"

When they do, the riders will form a union and the OEMs/FELD won't be able to stop them because of the bad publicity. When they do, the payouts will quintuple. FELD will scream, but the gates will be more full. The last place guy in the SX will still make a respectable living if he does it each weekend. Attendance will increase because of more racers. FELD will eventually be happier, but initially they will scream and whine. Canard will be on center stage as he'll speak to rider safety and fixing the tracks.

Just my .02.

Bry145 wrote:

Jason Ciarletta passed away after a SX crash in 2004.

If you drive around Riverside, CA you may see some 412 stickers on trucks in his memory.

you are correct. And I mean not one shred of disrespect to his legacy or his family, BUT: a quick google search of his name tells me that there were approximately 2000 fans in attendance when he crashed. (I guess it was during daytime qualifying).

A big name is going to crash (ala Reed w/ the "Chatapult") and die. This is not my wish...it's just my prediction. When it happens, I predict a complete overhaul of our sport, for both the good and the bad.