The flagging is amateur at best

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3/25/2018 7:15 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/27/2018 11:35 AM

I was pissed at Indy this weekend with the lack of awareness from multiple flaggers.

The biggest example of this is when Tapia went down hard on the landing of the finish line jump in one of the timed qualifiers. First of all, I hope he is ok it was absolutely nasty. Secondly, there were two guys who hit the jump and came really close the landing on him while he was down. The flagger had no clue because he wasn't watching the area after him. Instead he was watching the turn before. If he was paying attention to the track after instead of before his standing point, the riders would have had plenty of time to acknowledge nowhere Lamay was down without getting dangerouly close.

Similar incidents like this happened in a couple the rhythm sections as well. Yes I'm bitching and no one actually landed on Lamay but I feel like this is unacceptable. Are these idiots trained?

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3/26/2018 5:24 AM

I sometimes think they pick random people from the crowd. "Buy the $35.00 Monster Slushie in a souvenir cup and you too can be a flagger at a Supercross near you!" The flagging I've witnessed at Red Bud the past 20+ years is abysmal. A blind/deaf person could do better. No offense intended to the blind/deaf.

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3/26/2018 5:54 AM

I think it was AJ Catanzaro yelling at flaggers after he went down and someone slammed into his bike as he was getting up. They need to direct riders and put themselves out there a little bit if they need riders to move over.

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3/26/2018 8:43 AM

Anyone see them waving blue flags at the lappers immediately behind Musquin when he had a 30 second lead? No wonder they don’t move out of the way when they’re waved at them constantly no matter how close the next lead lap rider is to lapping them.

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3/26/2018 9:11 AM

They (flaggers) are trying to do their best but man feld is dropping the ball. Do they not have head sets so the flaggers can hear/talk to each other when someone goes down?

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"Shifting gears and passing queers" GL

3/26/2018 9:20 AM

When the race was in Tampa FELD reached out to riding clubs in the area and memebers volunteered (or got payed) to do it. My friend did it.

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Unleaded tastes a little tangy. Supreme is kinda sour, and diesel tastes pretty good.

3/26/2018 1:12 PM

The dude that picked up Savatgy's bike a few rounds ago, with the throttle wide open and clutch not pulled in was ridiculous. Then the guy trying to push Eli's bike off the track in the main at indy, with the bike in gear and not pulling the clutch in! These two guys have obviously never even riden a bike, let alone raced.

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3/26/2018 1:32 PM

I can tell you as a former promoter that ran over 400 race events and has helped at at about 1000 other events since the mid 80's that some of the best, most conscientious flaggers I had were never riders.

I certainly preferred them a over a lot of the young riders that thought they knew everything but wouldn't concentrate on the most fundamental duties that flaggers are there to do.

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3/26/2018 1:50 PM

I don't necessarily agree that it needs to be a rider doing the flagging. Hell, if i were on the track i can almost guarantee you that i would be distracted by watching the racing and not paying attention to downed riders. Or maybe i wouldn't, but either way it seems that the issue is that the flaggers are not trained well enough to do the job properly when in certain situations.

Rickyisms, did your friend have to sit through a class or anything before accepting his duty? Could you get us some more insight on what these people actually know when they step on a supercross track other than "here is a flag, wave it when someone crashes"?

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3/26/2018 1:57 PM

Indoors we could totally do with lane lights- green, yellow, Red Cross, and blue. Those marshals now work their asses off, can barely see over all the giant jumps, have to wrangle busted up bikes and people off the track, etc. Let the guys help pick up the pieces, but let the eye in the sky control the lane lights.

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www.bettercallsaul.com
Die Antwoord

3/26/2018 5:21 PM

Good idea gt. Hell haven't some local track done it? Too bad field operates the money the way they do.

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3/26/2018 7:49 PM
Edited Date/Time: 3/26/2018 7:51 PM

hellbillyohio wrote:

I was pissed at Indy this weekend with the lack of awareness from multiple flaggers.

The biggest example of this is when Tapia went down hard on the landing of the finish line jump in one of the timed qualifiers. First of all, I hope he is ok it was absolutely nasty. Secondly, there were two guys who hit the jump and came really close the landing on him while he was down. The flagger had no clue because he wasn't watching the area after him. Instead he was watching the turn before. If he was paying attention to the track after instead of before his standing point, the riders would have had plenty of time to acknowledge nowhere Lamay was down without getting dangerouly close.

Similar incidents like this happened in a couple the rhythm sections as well. Yes I'm bitching and no one actually landed on Lamay but I feel like this is unacceptable. Are these idiots trained?

money talks and bullshit walks.... it's amazing how many adults haven't figured that out yet.

You can bitch about the lack of this and that, or you can bitch about AMA membership prices and entry fees, but you can't do both. AMA isn't exactly rolling in cash

...and Feld will never intentionally increase their operating costs until their hand is forced by regulation, mutiny, or dwindling sales that are directly related to the issue at hand.

The safety of the riders is their own responsibility. This is not a federally regulated industry. Feld will continue to support any safety measures, as long as they don't cost them any money.


how many flaggers do you need?
which entity pays them, AMA or Feld?
do you train one group, or a group for every venue?
are they employees or contractors?
Can you rely on an employee or contractor that works one day a year for less than $100 total income per year?
If you hire a crew, what do they do during the week?
are you flying them or driving them? putting them up in hotels? paying "per diem"?

so, do you think they are gonna go and drop a 150K per SX season when right now they're doing it for about 15K for day laborers.

stop telling others how to do their job. no one goes to your work and knocks the dicks out of your mouth, do they?




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3/26/2018 9:38 PM

It's important to understand there are 3 different groups of folks trackside.
One are the ama flaggers. Most of the same guys work every enent. They have yellow and blue flags and man the finish line. Full face helmets. Do mot touch bikes.
One are the local flaggers who normally come from a local club. Most have flagged sx for years. They only have yellow flags. Half helmets and a head set. Do not touch bikes.
The other are the ops guys who run on the track to pick up the bike and protect the rider so the medic can attend. Full face helmets, work every race.

The local flaggers are trained before every event.
There is a head flagger who is in touch through the headset with a person overlooking the track and relays information to the local flaggers. Ama guys are a seperate entity.
What I am sure isn't apparent is just how fast things happen on the track. You have to not only keep a eye on the bikes coming at you, you have to watch your section for downed riders and tough blocks. If you only watched down track you'd get killed.
Are mistakes made? Yes. Is one mistake too many?
Yes.
But cut these guys some slack, I have never seen anyone who didn't take it seriously.

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3/26/2018 10:10 PM

One other thing to understand is what the flags mean in sx.
The yellow flag mean use caution. It does not mean slow down, don't jump or anything of the sort.
The red cross flag, or red lights, mean don't jump and those are only operated by the ama officials.
In the case of Lamay at the bottom of the finish line the ama official would put out the red cross flag and turn on the red lights.
Then it's up to the riders to obey them.

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3/27/2018 4:43 AM

You guys realize that the flaggers do NOT get paid right ? They never have and probably never will. In SX, there are east coast and west coast flaggers for the most part. Lots of them have been flagging SX races for several years. FOR FREE !!

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3/27/2018 10:06 AM

langhammx wrote:

You guys realize that the flaggers do NOT get paid right ? They never have and probably never will. In SX, there are east coast and west coast flaggers for the most part. Lots of them have been flagging SX races for several years. FOR FREE !!

Good thing. I couldn't imagine paying someone with no common sense!

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3/27/2018 10:12 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/27/2018 10:13 AM

I about killed myself once at a nice track in PA (will not mention the name) when I landed on a down bike that was lying on the track just after the landing of a blind step down triple. The flagger was off on the side of the track talking to the (apparently fine) rider who had crashed . Trip to the hospital, CAT scan, lasting neck injury, the whole nine yards

I have been recruited to work as a flagger too,years ago, and was given no instruction whatsoever , paid almost nothing. Greedy moron promoters need to get real

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ride

3/27/2018 11:04 AM

langhammx wrote:

You guys realize that the flaggers do NOT get paid right ? They never have and probably never will. In SX, there are east coast and west coast flaggers for the most part. Lots of them have been flagging SX races for several years. FOR FREE !!

hellbillyohio wrote:

Good thing. I couldn't imagine paying someone with no common sense!

I think you’re missing the point !

BYW- Several members on this board have flagged SX for many years and are anything but commen senseless !! On the contrary, they are very knowledgeable of this sport, let alone life. So your comment is falling on deaf ears. When’s the last time you donated your time flagging ?

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3/27/2018 11:14 AM

user760a wrote:

I about killed myself once at a nice track in PA (will not mention the name) when I landed on a down bike that was lying on the track just after the landing of a blind step down triple. The flagger was off on the side of the track talking to the (apparently fine) rider who had crashed . Trip to the hospital, CAT scan, lasting neck injury, the whole nine yards

I have been recruited to work as a flagger too,years ago, and was given no instruction whatsoever , paid almost nothing. Greedy moron promoters need to get real

My dad had the same thing happen in 1998 at Hollister up in Northern California. Flagger was down talking to the guy and my dad came over the table and his front wheel landed between the forks and frame of the guys bike. Broken navicular, ruptured spleen and the medics at the track said he was fine. He drank gatorade and watermellon and threw it right up. His buddies rushed him to the hospital and the doctors told his friends that he was 5 minutes away from losing his life. The cut into him without any sort of medication while my dad was wide awake. All thanks to a flagger not doing his job.

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3/27/2018 11:28 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/27/2018 11:41 AM

hellbillyohio wrote:

I was pissed at Indy this weekend with the lack of awareness from multiple flaggers.

The biggest example of this is when Tapia went down hard on the landing of the finish line jump in one of the timed qualifiers. First of all, I hope he is ok it was absolutely nasty. Secondly, there were two guys who hit the jump and came really close the landing on him while he was down. The flagger had no clue because he wasn't watching the area after him. Instead he was watching the turn before. If he was paying attention to the track after instead of before his standing point, the riders would have had plenty of time to acknowledge nowhere Lamay was down without getting dangerouly close.

Similar incidents like this happened in a couple the rhythm sections as well. Yes I'm bitching and no one actually landed on Lamay but I feel like this is unacceptable. Are these idiots trained?

Katoomey wrote:

money talks and bullshit walks.... it's amazing how many adults haven't figured that out yet.

You can bitch about the lack of this and that, or you can bitch about AMA membership prices and entry fees, but you can't do both. AMA isn't exactly rolling in cash

...and Feld will never intentionally increase their operating costs until their hand is forced by regulation, mutiny, or dwindling sales that are directly related to the issue at hand.

The safety of the riders is their own responsibility. This is not a federally regulated industry. Feld will continue to support any safety measures, as long as they don't cost them any money.


how many flaggers do you need?
which entity pays them, AMA or Feld?
do you train one group, or a group for every venue?
are they employees or contractors?
Can you rely on an employee or contractor that works one day a year for less than $100 total income per year?
If you hire a crew, what do they do during the week?
are you flying them or driving them? putting them up in hotels? paying "per diem"?

so, do you think they are gonna go and drop a 150K per SX season when right now they're doing it for about 15K for day laborers.

stop telling others how to do their job. no one goes to your work and knocks the dicks out of your mouth, do they?




No need to be a douchebag. Do you talk to your mother like that? But I'll answer some of your questions.
How many flaggers are needed? At least 2 per section
Which entity pays them? neither
Do you train one group, or a group for every venue? Simple, train whoever needs it! Just like a riders meeting. It takes 15 minutes.
Are they employees or contractors? neither, they are volunteers

It doesnt cost anything. Feld wouldnt dish it out if it did anyways. We all know that. But it sure as hell doesn't take much effort to have a meeting with all flaggers to tell them where on the track to watch.

You seem butthurt. Perhaps you were a flagger after you realized you couldn't win the faircross championship in the C class.

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3/27/2018 11:33 AM

langhammx wrote:

You guys realize that the flaggers do NOT get paid right ? They never have and probably never will. In SX, there are east coast and west coast flaggers for the most part. Lots of them have been flagging SX races for several years. FOR FREE !!

hellbillyohio wrote:

Good thing. I couldn't imagine paying someone with no common sense!

langhammx wrote:

I think you’re missing the point !

BYW- Several members on this board have flagged SX for many years and are anything but commen senseless !! On the contrary, they are very knowledgeable of this sport, let alone life. So your comment is falling on deaf ears. When’s the last time you donated your time flagging ?

Just because they do it for free doesn't mean that they can watch whatever part of the track or race they want. You are committed to the section that is after you. Just be aware of that. They were lacking that at Indy is all i'm saying. I'm NOT coming at all flaggers. But it's sad when it can be avoided. Tapia laid on the landing of the finish for at least ten seconds before a flag was shown. It needs to improve.

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3/27/2018 4:42 PM

hellbillyohio wrote:

Good thing. I couldn't imagine paying someone with no common sense!

langhammx wrote:

I think you’re missing the point !

BYW- Several members on this board have flagged SX for many years and are anything but commen senseless !! On the contrary, they are very knowledgeable of this sport, let alone life. So your comment is falling on deaf ears. When’s the last time you donated your time flagging ?

hellbillyohio wrote:

Just because they do it for free doesn't mean that they can watch whatever part of the track or race they want. You are committed to the section that is after you. Just be aware of that. They were lacking that at Indy is all i'm saying. I'm NOT coming at all flaggers. But it's sad when it can be avoided. Tapia laid on the landing of the finish for at least ten seconds before a flag was shown. It needs to improve.

I guess my point is that until flaggers are properly compensated, they will remain amateur flaggers. They are actually nothing more than volunteers. Although I just found out that FELD has paid $125 per flagger the last 3 rounds.... not even minimum wage, but at least they can put gas on their trucks to get home. It’s a start, but a long way to go to consider them employees.

As far as the other guys comment on the radios on the flaggers... I was informed that every flagger has a 1-way radio in their helmets that the FELD spotter can talk to them. This is relatively new and has helped get the flaggers attention, if he’s not in the correct position to properly flag.

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