The Ranch or AX?

racingfortheson
So after listening to Keefer's podcast (a very good listen if you want to know what LL is like), it got me thinking about what an amateur ride should do. With how the sport puts so much on SX now, would a young rider be better off spending the $10,000 it take to make it to one race, or spend it on AX? Kinda like the kid he was with breaking his arm in practice. So here is the question short and sweet.

$10,000.00 for Loretta's or spend it traveling to Arenacross?
|
rongi#401
Profile picture for user rongi#401
Posts
1636
Joined
6/20/2016
Location
southern, CA US
rongi#401 8/7/2017 10:20pm
8/7/2017 10:20pm
dont matter either way if you dont perform for shit
1
Phillip_Lamb
Profile picture for user Phillip_Lamb
Posts
1924
Joined
12/14/2010
Location
ORANGEVALE, CA US
Fantasy
2447th
Phillip_Lamb 8/7/2017 10:22pm
8/7/2017 10:22pm
back in the 90's kids did more than practice and get ready for Loretta's. They spent a lot of their weekends ACTUALLY racing.

Loretta's vs AX.

depends, if the kid is younger and already setup on a team, I would put more focus on AX.

I think an all AX tour would benefit a rider who A. isnt lined up for any rides, or B. a rider who is a little older in other words the guy who will be either a privateer or scrapping for a B level team ride.
racingfortheson 8/7/2017 10:43pm
8/7/2017 10:43pm
I starting to think he may get more out of AX as far as moving into the pros in a few years.
toddh
Profile picture for user toddh
Posts
354
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
IN US
toddh 8/8/2017 5:20am
8/8/2017 5:20am
Where is the podcast?

The Shop

See All »
ti473
Profile picture for user ti473
Posts
882
Joined
3/17/2012
Location
Arlington Heights, IL US
ti473 8/8/2017 5:55am
8/8/2017 5:55am
I'd say dropping back to c class is the only way to "make it"
early
Profile picture for user early
Posts
8260
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
Fantasy
2212th
early 8/8/2017 6:18am
8/8/2017 6:18am
Id be interested to know what the cost difference is between Lorettas and other big amateur events. What does it cost vs. Mammoth or Mino-Os for example.
aFACEdismembered 8/8/2017 6:54am
8/8/2017 6:54am
early wrote:
Id be interested to know what the cost difference is between Lorettas and other big amateur events. What does it cost vs. Mammoth or Mino-Os for...
Id be interested to know what the cost difference is between Lorettas and other big amateur events. What does it cost vs. Mammoth or Mino-Os for example.
I want to know the difference between their airfare, rental car and hotel instead of driving and staying at the track.
TXDirt
Profile picture for user TXDirt
Posts
7399
Joined
7/29/2015
Location
Plano, TX US
TXDirt 8/8/2017 7:07am
8/8/2017 7:07am
early wrote:
Id be interested to know what the cost difference is between Lorettas and other big amateur events. What does it cost vs. Mammoth or Mino-Os for...
Id be interested to know what the cost difference is between Lorettas and other big amateur events. What does it cost vs. Mammoth or Mino-Os for example.
They are all expensive, especially for middle class families.
JWACK
Profile picture for user JWACK
Posts
2485
Joined
8/7/2009
Location
NM US
JWACK 8/8/2017 7:15am
8/8/2017 7:15am
The arenacross route is more cost effective if your trying to get your license and your a good rider. This is because all you need to do is get into the night show at 3 events. Don't even have to make the main just make the show.
It wasn't always this way. When I was trying to get the license you needed 100 ax points. This means making mains and doing well in the main at multiple events around the country. That was tough to do and ultimately I couldn't afford it. I also couldn't afford to do the pro ams and lorettas on the apprentice wages I was making at the time. .
Times have changed though and I believe the arenacross route is the much more affordable way to get a pro license for working privateers.
UpTiTe
Profile picture for user UpTiTe
Posts
7758
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CA US
Fantasy
4091st
UpTiTe 8/8/2017 7:34am
8/8/2017 7:34am Edited Date/Time 8/8/2017 7:37am
Who in the world is spending 10k on LLs?

I know 3 kids that went this year and none spent over 6.

I kmow one family that only spent 4700 and they top 10 the A class.

If you just want your pro card, Arenacross is the way to go. If you want to pick up good support you need to perform at LLs.
early
Profile picture for user early
Posts
8260
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
Fantasy
2212th
early 8/8/2017 7:34am
8/8/2017 7:34am
JWACK wrote:
The arenacross route is more cost effective if your trying to get your license and your a good rider. This is because all you need to...
The arenacross route is more cost effective if your trying to get your license and your a good rider. This is because all you need to do is get into the night show at 3 events. Don't even have to make the main just make the show.
It wasn't always this way. When I was trying to get the license you needed 100 ax points. This means making mains and doing well in the main at multiple events around the country. That was tough to do and ultimately I couldn't afford it. I also couldn't afford to do the pro ams and lorettas on the apprentice wages I was making at the time. .
Times have changed though and I believe the arenacross route is the much more affordable way to get a pro license for working privateers.
Dont you need a pro license (pro-am points) and the arenacross qualifiers both?
early
Profile picture for user early
Posts
8260
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
Fantasy
2212th
early 8/8/2017 7:35am
8/8/2017 7:35am
UpTiTe wrote:
Who in the world is spending 10k on LLs? I know 3 kids that went this year and none spent over 6. I kmow one family...
Who in the world is spending 10k on LLs?

I know 3 kids that went this year and none spent over 6.

I kmow one family that only spent 4700 and they top 10 the A class.

If you just want your pro card, Arenacross is the way to go. If you want to pick up good support you need to perform at LLs.
He was adding up areas and regionals in his number, but does seem high.
JWACK
Profile picture for user JWACK
Posts
2485
Joined
8/7/2009
Location
NM US
JWACK 8/8/2017 7:37am
8/8/2017 7:37am
JWACK wrote:
The arenacross route is more cost effective if your trying to get your license and your a good rider. This is because all you need to...
The arenacross route is more cost effective if your trying to get your license and your a good rider. This is because all you need to do is get into the night show at 3 events. Don't even have to make the main just make the show.
It wasn't always this way. When I was trying to get the license you needed 100 ax points. This means making mains and doing well in the main at multiple events around the country. That was tough to do and ultimately I couldn't afford it. I also couldn't afford to do the pro ams and lorettas on the apprentice wages I was making at the time. .
Times have changed though and I believe the arenacross route is the much more affordable way to get a pro license for working privateers.
early wrote:
Dont you need a pro license (pro-am points) and the arenacross qualifiers both?
Not 100% on that. I don't think so. I think you get grandfathered in to the motocross side of things if you qualify for a pro sx card. But I could be wrong.
UpTiTe
Profile picture for user UpTiTe
Posts
7758
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CA US
Fantasy
4091st
UpTiTe 8/8/2017 7:38am
8/8/2017 7:38am Edited Date/Time 8/8/2017 7:41am
UpTiTe wrote:
Who in the world is spending 10k on LLs? I know 3 kids that went this year and none spent over 6. I kmow one family...
Who in the world is spending 10k on LLs?

I know 3 kids that went this year and none spent over 6.

I kmow one family that only spent 4700 and they top 10 the A class.

If you just want your pro card, Arenacross is the way to go. If you want to pick up good support you need to perform at LLs.
early wrote:
He was adding up areas and regionals in his number, but does seem high.
Ok, still seems a little high to me but probably not.
r.sal923
Profile picture for user r.sal923
Posts
564
Joined
1/25/2014
Location
CA
r.sal923 8/8/2017 7:50am
8/8/2017 7:50am
ti473 wrote:
I'd say dropping back to c class is the only way to "make it"
I watched a "C" moto this year. It sure seamed like they were going fast.
dirtbikemike 8/8/2017 7:56am
8/8/2017 7:56am
The rules for a SX license have changed a couple of times lately. Just making the night show would award points in the past, but riders showed up for the points and skipped the racing. That scenario has since been nixed and now you must actually race to get points. Arenacross is not for everyone and neither is SX. The rules are in place and no amount of complaining will change that. If you are ready for either one, it will happen for you. Every year there are riders that show up at the first few rounds thinking they will get their points and move on to SX. Every year there are a lot of riders that find out how tough that is. The numbers get close to 100 entries for a few rounds and then taper off as it becomes apparent some aren't ready for AX much less SX. The Road to SX program has resulted in fewer than 20 riders each year gaining eligibility for a SX license. There is a lot of talent in the field that either has no desire to ride SX or they have already done that and find that AX is more suited to their skills and finances.

Here are the 2017 rules for the Road to SX points requirements:

2.1 Ricky Carmichael’s Road to Supercross Procedure • A rider must complete the Ricky Carmichael Road to Supercross to earn their 250SX license prior to racing Monster Energy AMA Supercross an FIM World Championship. • A rider may earn their AMA 250SX license through either the AX Lites class or the 250AX class however points may not be combined between the two classes. • Riders must attempt to succeed through the series of Heat Races, LCQ'S & Main Events to be eligible for their Road to Supercross point. • Road to Supercross points will be earned in a 12 month period. • Once a rider has qualified for their AMA 250SX license through the Road to Supercross the rider has two competition seasons to apply for their license before having to re-qualify. For example, a rider that qualified for an AMA 250SX license during the 2016 AX season may apply in 2017 or 2018. • In order to apply for your AMA 250SX license after you have acquired the necessary amount of points, contact Jane Caston at the AMA office at jcaston@ama-cycle.org or 1.800.262.5646

2.2 Ricky Carmichael’s Road to Supercross through the AX Lites Class • A minimum of six (6) Road to Supercross points are required. • One (1) Road to Supercross point is earned by each rider that qualifies for the AX Lites Class Main Event. • One (1) Road to Supercross point is earned by each rider that places in the top 10 overall in the AX Lites Class Main Event. • If a rider earns the six (6) points in less than three (3) cities, the rider is still required to attend and earn one (1) additional point in one or more cities for a minimum of three (3) Arenacross event cities attended before applying for their AMA 250SX license.
2.3 Ricky Carmichael’s Road to Supercross through the 250AX Class • A minimum of three (3) Road to Supercross points are required. • One (1) Road to Supercross point is earned by each rider that qualifies for the 250AX Class Main Event (s). • One (1) Road to Supercross point is earned by each rider that places in the top 10 overall in the 250AX Class Main Event (s). • If a rider earns the three (3) points in only one (1) city the rider is still required to attend and earn one additional point in another city for a minimum of two (2) Arenacross event cities attended before applying for their AMA 250SX license.
MX Culture
Profile picture for user MX Culture
Posts
3099
Joined
6/19/2009
Location
Lake Geneva, WI US
MX Culture 8/8/2017 7:58am
8/8/2017 7:58am
UpTiTe wrote:
Who in the world is spending 10k on LLs? I know 3 kids that went this year and none spent over 6. I kmow one family...
Who in the world is spending 10k on LLs?

I know 3 kids that went this year and none spent over 6.

I kmow one family that only spent 4700 and they top 10 the A class.

If you just want your pro card, Arenacross is the way to go. If you want to pick up good support you need to perform at LLs.
If you "perform" at Arenacross, you'll pick up good support also.

Pit Row

See All »
JWACK
Profile picture for user JWACK
Posts
2485
Joined
8/7/2009
Location
NM US
JWACK 8/8/2017 8:00am
8/8/2017 8:00am
UpTiTe wrote:
Who in the world is spending 10k on LLs? I know 3 kids that went this year and none spent over 6. I kmow one family...
Who in the world is spending 10k on LLs?

I know 3 kids that went this year and none spent over 6.

I kmow one family that only spent 4700 and they top 10 the A class.

If you just want your pro card, Arenacross is the way to go. If you want to pick up good support you need to perform at LLs.
But when you figure in the cost of a good competitive bike and parts. plus qualifiers and travel expense to all the races it gets very pricey. No way can you get a bike do the qualifiers and get to lorettas on 10 grand. Unless your on a 2003 Yz 125 racing the age classes for fun.
JWACK
Profile picture for user JWACK
Posts
2485
Joined
8/7/2009
Location
NM US
JWACK 8/8/2017 8:05am
8/8/2017 8:05am
dirtbikemike wrote:
The rules for a SX license have changed a couple of times lately. Just making the night show would award points in the past, but riders...
The rules for a SX license have changed a couple of times lately. Just making the night show would award points in the past, but riders showed up for the points and skipped the racing. That scenario has since been nixed and now you must actually race to get points. Arenacross is not for everyone and neither is SX. The rules are in place and no amount of complaining will change that. If you are ready for either one, it will happen for you. Every year there are riders that show up at the first few rounds thinking they will get their points and move on to SX. Every year there are a lot of riders that find out how tough that is. The numbers get close to 100 entries for a few rounds and then taper off as it becomes apparent some aren't ready for AX much less SX. The Road to SX program has resulted in fewer than 20 riders each year gaining eligibility for a SX license. There is a lot of talent in the field that either has no desire to ride SX or they have already done that and find that AX is more suited to their skills and finances.

Here are the 2017 rules for the Road to SX points requirements:

2.1 Ricky Carmichael’s Road to Supercross Procedure • A rider must complete the Ricky Carmichael Road to Supercross to earn their 250SX license prior to racing Monster Energy AMA Supercross an FIM World Championship. • A rider may earn their AMA 250SX license through either the AX Lites class or the 250AX class however points may not be combined between the two classes. • Riders must attempt to succeed through the series of Heat Races, LCQ'S & Main Events to be eligible for their Road to Supercross point. • Road to Supercross points will be earned in a 12 month period. • Once a rider has qualified for their AMA 250SX license through the Road to Supercross the rider has two competition seasons to apply for their license before having to re-qualify. For example, a rider that qualified for an AMA 250SX license during the 2016 AX season may apply in 2017 or 2018. • In order to apply for your AMA 250SX license after you have acquired the necessary amount of points, contact Jane Caston at the AMA office at jcaston@ama-cycle.org or 1.800.262.5646

2.2 Ricky Carmichael’s Road to Supercross through the AX Lites Class • A minimum of six (6) Road to Supercross points are required. • One (1) Road to Supercross point is earned by each rider that qualifies for the AX Lites Class Main Event. • One (1) Road to Supercross point is earned by each rider that places in the top 10 overall in the AX Lites Class Main Event. • If a rider earns the six (6) points in less than three (3) cities, the rider is still required to attend and earn one (1) additional point in one or more cities for a minimum of three (3) Arenacross event cities attended before applying for their AMA 250SX license.
2.3 Ricky Carmichael’s Road to Supercross through the 250AX Class • A minimum of three (3) Road to Supercross points are required. • One (1) Road to Supercross point is earned by each rider that qualifies for the 250AX Class Main Event (s). • One (1) Road to Supercross point is earned by each rider that places in the top 10 overall in the 250AX Class Main Event (s). • If a rider earns the three (3) points in only one (1) city the rider is still required to attend and earn one additional point in another city for a minimum of two (2) Arenacross event cities attended before applying for their AMA 250SX license.
Thanks for the update mike! Yep it sure has changed. It's a bit more old school and having to perform is part of the deal again.
RonJon
Profile picture for user RonJon
Posts
386
Joined
9/13/2016
Location
Torquay AU
RonJon 8/8/2017 8:09am
8/8/2017 8:09am
I spent 10 grand and didn't even qualify.
UpTiTe
Profile picture for user UpTiTe
Posts
7758
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CA US
Fantasy
4091st
UpTiTe 8/8/2017 8:36am
8/8/2017 8:36am
UpTiTe wrote:
Who in the world is spending 10k on LLs? I know 3 kids that went this year and none spent over 6. I kmow one family...
Who in the world is spending 10k on LLs?

I know 3 kids that went this year and none spent over 6.

I kmow one family that only spent 4700 and they top 10 the A class.

If you just want your pro card, Arenacross is the way to go. If you want to pick up good support you need to perform at LLs.
JWACK wrote:
But when you figure in the cost of a good competitive bike and parts. plus qualifiers and travel expense to all the races it gets very...
But when you figure in the cost of a good competitive bike and parts. plus qualifiers and travel expense to all the races it gets very pricey. No way can you get a bike do the qualifiers and get to lorettas on 10 grand. Unless your on a 2003 Yz 125 racing the age classes for fun.
Well now you're talking much more than just LLs, which I assumed we were talking about.

With everything you bring up, you're at over 10k for a good bike and parts before you leave the house.
UpTiTe
Profile picture for user UpTiTe
Posts
7758
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
CA US
Fantasy
4091st
UpTiTe 8/8/2017 8:37am
8/8/2017 8:37am
UpTiTe wrote:
Who in the world is spending 10k on LLs? I know 3 kids that went this year and none spent over 6. I kmow one family...
Who in the world is spending 10k on LLs?

I know 3 kids that went this year and none spent over 6.

I kmow one family that only spent 4700 and they top 10 the A class.

If you just want your pro card, Arenacross is the way to go. If you want to pick up good support you need to perform at LLs.
MX Culture wrote:
If you "perform" at Arenacross, you'll pick up good support also.
Agreed, but nobody is getting a factory ride out of Arenacross.
racingfortheson 8/8/2017 9:22am
8/8/2017 9:22am
UpTiTe wrote:
Who in the world is spending 10k on LLs? I know 3 kids that went this year and none spent over 6. I kmow one family...
Who in the world is spending 10k on LLs?

I know 3 kids that went this year and none spent over 6.

I kmow one family that only spent 4700 and they top 10 the A class.

If you just want your pro card, Arenacross is the way to go. If you want to pick up good support you need to perform at LLs.
MX Culture wrote:
If you "perform" at Arenacross, you'll pick up good support also.
UpTiTe wrote:
Agreed, but nobody is getting a factory ride out of Arenacross.
O we put pencil to paper and it would be well over 10k for LL for us. If you don't have big team support by the time to get off of 85's, then you are going to have to earn a ride after you turn pro. So in a way, LL is a waste of money.
tcallahan707
Profile picture for user tcallahan707
Posts
1826
Joined
4/5/2016
Location
Morrison, CO US
tcallahan707 8/8/2017 10:16am
8/8/2017 10:16am
MX Culture wrote:
If you "perform" at Arenacross, you'll pick up good support also.
UpTiTe wrote:
Agreed, but nobody is getting a factory ride out of Arenacross.
racingfortheson wrote:
O we put pencil to paper and it would be well over 10k for LL for us. If you don't have big team support by the...
O we put pencil to paper and it would be well over 10k for LL for us. If you don't have big team support by the time to get off of 85's, then you are going to have to earn a ride after you turn pro. So in a way, LL is a waste of money.
Ask McElrath if LL was a waste of money. Justin Cooper earned Challen Tennant's Star Racing pro ride last week, although he did have some support through Rock River already.
mws02
Profile picture for user mws02
Posts
227
Joined
2/16/2010
Location
N/A, FL US
mws02 8/8/2017 10:36am
8/8/2017 10:36am
rongi#401 wrote:
dont matter either way if you dont perform for shit
jesus christ that is the most insightful piece of information i have ever seen. I'm sure the OP really gained a lot from it.
racer495a
Profile picture for user racer495a
Posts
206
Joined
4/25/2008
Location
CO US
racer495a 8/8/2017 11:38am
8/8/2017 11:38am
Keefer said in the podcast he spent 6k in entry fees/gas/hotels/flights but if he had to buy his own parts/bikes/gear it would be closer to 10.
JWACK
Profile picture for user JWACK
Posts
2485
Joined
8/7/2009
Location
NM US
JWACK 8/8/2017 11:46am
8/8/2017 11:46am
racer495a wrote:
Keefer said in the podcast he spent 6k in entry fees/gas/hotels/flights but if he had to buy his own parts/bikes/gear it would be closer to 10.
Closer to 20.! A set up 450 is 10 grand all by itself.
racingfortheson 8/8/2017 12:53pm
8/8/2017 12:53pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Agreed, but nobody is getting a factory ride out of Arenacross.
racingfortheson wrote:
O we put pencil to paper and it would be well over 10k for LL for us. If you don't have big team support by the...
O we put pencil to paper and it would be well over 10k for LL for us. If you don't have big team support by the time to get off of 85's, then you are going to have to earn a ride after you turn pro. So in a way, LL is a waste of money.
tcallahan707 wrote:
Ask McElrath if LL was a waste of money. Justin Cooper earned Challen Tennant's Star Racing pro ride last week, although he did have some support...
Ask McElrath if LL was a waste of money. Justin Cooper earned Challen Tennant's Star Racing pro ride last week, although he did have some support through Rock River already.
That is exactly my point, he had support already. He has had support from 85's.
early
Profile picture for user early
Posts
8260
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
Fantasy
2212th
early 8/8/2017 1:01pm
8/8/2017 1:01pm
JWACK wrote:
Closer to 20.! A set up 450 is 10 grand all by itself.
If you dont have a bike you arent racing anything so I dont think thats part of the question. Plus you can race a 2 stroke in all the classes I believe.

Post a reply to: The Ranch or AX?