The Cooper Webb conundrum

shredder22
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shredder22 6/8/2018 11:35pm
6/8/2018 11:35pm
CASH476 wrote:
9 of the top 12 riders in the 450s are in that age group including the top 4. Whistling
Top 5 guys
Eli - 25 yrs old
Marvin - 28 yrs old
Baggett - 26 yrs
Barcia - 26 yrs old
Ken roczen - 24 yrs old

Not a single one over 30 and Marvin is the only guy close to 30. I guess we could say the age group is 20-50 yrs old too and that would be a true statement as well. Hell we could say 20-infinity if you want and it's still a true statement lol. Realistically though all the people listed are much closer to 25 than 35.
kongols
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kongols 6/8/2018 11:46pm
6/8/2018 11:46pm
swtwtwtw wrote:
Well it is a 25-35 year olds sport now. With maturity comes better chances at championships. Very much unlike my era where 25+ was considered veterans
21-27
swtwtwtw
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swtwtwtw 6/9/2018 2:11pm
6/9/2018 2:11pm
swtwtwtw wrote:
Well it is a 25-35 year olds sport now. With maturity comes better chances at championships. Very much unlike my era where 25+ was considered veterans
kongols wrote:
21-27
Well, I guess we’ll see quite a retirement class in 2 years.
shredder22
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shredder22 6/9/2018 2:43pm
6/9/2018 2:43pm
swtwtwtw wrote:
Well it is a 25-35 year olds sport now. With maturity comes better chances at championships. Very much unlike my era where 25+ was considered veterans
kongols wrote:
21-27
swtwtwtw wrote:
Well, I guess we’ll see quite a retirement class in 2 years.
Nah not a retirement. Those guys will just become the veterans like it was back in your day. Just like ET, Marv, KRoc, Barcia, etc are the veterans of the 450 class now.

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gt80rider
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gt80rider 6/9/2018 2:44pm
6/9/2018 2:44pm
The last two seasons he has showed me that he seems to only try hard when he wants to, not when his paycheck dictates... But that is jmo
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rutsmash 6/9/2018 5:38pm
6/9/2018 5:38pm
Adam43 wrote:
I've said for a long time that while he was without doubt the best 250 guy in 2016, he wasn't just crushing Savatgy and the Martins...
I've said for a long time that while he was without doubt the best 250 guy in 2016, he wasn't just crushing Savatgy and the Martins - and no one is lining up to give them top dollar 450 gigs.

His path so far is very similar to that of Ivan Tedesco, who won both 250 titles but found the 450s to be much more challenging and crash-prone. I suspect he will be more successful than IT over the long run, he works very hard and has a lot of desire. But anyone expecting him to be another RC or Stew just hasn't been paying attention.
I would agree with you except for the fact that he has shown he can run laptimes with the elites in some SX races...mostly tracks that had lots of rain the day before so lots of sticky ruts. As Mathes says, that kind of speed gets you a shot at a lot of teams. Tedesco was not that way in the 450 class. But yes, not another RC or Stew IMO.
ga_pike
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ga_pike 6/9/2018 8:04pm
6/9/2018 8:04pm
I think the transition from full time 250 to 450 takes a couple of years... add in injuries and Coop is just fine. Now... if he doesn't have results next year, it may be time to start wondering.
make1go
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make1go 6/9/2018 8:28pm
6/9/2018 8:28pm
TXDirt wrote:
Agree. I think Marvin's best days are behind him. I'm not saying that in a negative sense. He can still win and he still kicks ass...
Agree. I think Marvin's best days are behind him. I'm not saying that in a negative sense. He can still win and he still kicks ass. But he's 28 years old now. He's only 15 days younger then Dungey, who's already retired. Motorcycle racing is a young mans game....

Webb still has untapped potential that perhaps someone like Decoster could help open up.
best not say that around cairolli, reed, et al, cause well, its not really correct.

the main advantage with younger is the ability to come back from injuries.
scooterwhipmoore 6/9/2018 9:21pm
6/9/2018 9:21pm
He's a year older than AC, Waaaaay ahead of him too, Injuries have piled up, remember his MX title he started with a broken wrist.
brimx153
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brimx153 6/9/2018 9:24pm
6/9/2018 9:24pm
I could see ktm going for a tickle type rider again next year .Then going all out for plessneger. I really think Marv will have some say on Webb being there or not
es337
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es337 6/9/2018 11:35pm
6/9/2018 11:35pm
brimx153 wrote:
I could see ktm going for a tickle type rider again next year .Then going all out for plessneger. I really think Marv will have some...
I could see ktm going for a tickle type rider again next year .Then going all out for plessneger. I really think Marv will have some say on Webb being there or not
The French don't want none
Ray_MXS
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Ray_MXS 6/11/2018 1:44am
6/11/2018 1:44am
I truly believe that age itself has nothing to very little to do with it. I think you can be just as fit and competitive at age 32 as you are at 18. Sure, big injuries might not heal as quick but the experience makes you not crash as much so its an even trade.

The big fact that racers win their championship in their early-to-mid 20s and then quit is just because they´ve been so focused on racing for their entire life. These kids get factory backing in the 85s and then it just a full time job through the amateurs and to go pro as early as possible. They are burnt out by 25 these days.

In GPs this isnt quite so rough. The pressure isnt as high in the younger years so they hit their peak a little later and go on to have longer careers. (Everts, Smets, Coppins, Cairoli etc)

Its my personal prediction that the guys in the US now that had an upbringing outside the US will go on to have a slightly longer career (Reed, Musquin, Roczen, Ferrandis etc) vs the US wonderchilds thats been hyped since age 14 (Cianciarulo, Forkner, Tomac, Webb)

I may be talking out of my ass here and there is certainly exceptions to this but its my thoughts on it.
redrider400
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redrider400 6/11/2018 3:37am
6/11/2018 3:37am
hamncheeze wrote:
Friday afternoon bench racing. Where is the path for Webb headed? I think when he graduated from the 250 in 2016 most of us would have...
Friday afternoon bench racing.

Where is the path for Webb headed? I think when he graduated from the 250 in 2016 most of us would have said a decent rookie year in 2017 with some podiums and then in 2018 he is starting to win a few. It has not quite played out that way, and for sure some injuries have been part of the equation.

But if we go back, there hasn't been a guy who looked as ready for success since Tomac and Roczen, who both left after 2013. And while both of them had some injuries in their first 2 years they both won races in year 1, Roczen won a title as a rookie, and by year 2 they were considered title challengers and both of them won multiple MX and SX rounds in year two. So where does this leave us with Webb?

Were we maybe a bit too swayed by his relative dominance in the 2015/2016 250 West SX? I mean, he was beating Bowers, Savatgy and Craig. When Tomac won his title in 2012 he had to beat Dean Wilson, Cole Seely and Marvin Musquin. In 2013 Roczen had to beat Tomac, Seely and a blossoming Jason Anderson. What about outdoors? Coop won in 2016, but JMart was sick, Osborne blew up a lot of Huskys, and Savatgy started out strong but obviously had some physical illness issues as the season wore on. Loveable Alex Martin was 2nd in points that season. Compare to say 2012 and 2013 when Tomac and Roczen had to battle each other plus Baggett, Barcia (2012), Musquin, and sometimes Dean Wilson. Maybe as impressive as Cooper's 2016 season was, it was also maybe not up against the same quality of guys which may have led all of us astray?

It sure seems like the pendulum could swing either way for Cooper Webb.
To me, he for some reason looks like he isn't strong enough to have the same type of riding style that he had on the 250 and he is having a difficult time adapting. I know he had a really active riding style on the 250, but on the 450, not so much.

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