The Cooper Webb conundrum

Related:
Create New Tag

6/8/2018 2:56 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/8/2018 2:57 PM

Friday afternoon bench racing.

Where is the path for Webb headed? I think when he graduated from the 250 in 2016 most of us would have said a decent rookie year in 2017 with some podiums and then in 2018 he is starting to win a few. It has not quite played out that way, and for sure some injuries have been part of the equation.

But if we go back, there hasn't been a guy who looked as ready for success since Tomac and Roczen, who both left after 2013. And while both of them had some injuries in their first 2 years they both won races in year 1, Roczen won a title as a rookie, and by year 2 they were considered title challengers and both of them won multiple MX and SX rounds in year two. So where does this leave us with Webb?

Were we maybe a bit too swayed by his relative dominance in the 2015/2016 250 West SX? I mean, he was beating Bowers, Savatgy and Craig. When Tomac won his title in 2012 he had to beat Dean Wilson, Cole Seely and Marvin Musquin. In 2013 Roczen had to beat Tomac, Seely and a blossoming Jason Anderson. What about outdoors? Coop won in 2016, but JMart was sick, Osborne blew up a lot of Huskys, and Savatgy started out strong but obviously had some physical illness issues as the season wore on. Loveable Alex Martin was 2nd in points that season. Compare to say 2012 and 2013 when Tomac and Roczen had to battle each other plus Baggett, Barcia (2012), Musquin, and sometimes Dean Wilson. Maybe as impressive as Cooper's 2016 season was, it was also maybe not up against the same quality of guys which may have led all of us astray?

It sure seems like the pendulum could swing either way for Cooper Webb.

|

Old MXer turned Superfan.

6/8/2018 3:09 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/8/2018 3:13 PM

Nothing has really gone right since the last moto at MXDN (his first 450 race?) when he had a chance to deliver an improbable win for the U.S.

Since then over the last two years he has battled injuries, lack of confidence in the Yamaha, perhaps too big of a posse which has caused him to lose some focus.

I think he still has it in him to be very good on the 450 ( win races). But its going to take a change of scenery personally and professionally for that to happen.

edit///

I do give him props for moving up to the big boy class. More guys need to move up. Example, JMart, Osbourne, etc etc etc.

He could have stayed down on 250 outdoors. It's time for guys to move up. The "premiere" class is far from that and has been an issue for years. Lack of competition.....

|

6/8/2018 3:14 PM

Where? I’d guess that it runs through Red Bull KTM.

|

6/8/2018 3:21 PM

GuyB wrote:

Where? I’d guess that it runs through Red Bull KTM.

Agree. I think Marvin's best days are behind him. I'm not saying that in a negative sense. He can still win and he still kicks ass. But he's 28 years old now. He's only 15 days younger then Dungey, who's already retired. Motorcycle racing is a young mans game....

Webb still has untapped potential that perhaps someone like Decoster could help open up.

|

6/8/2018 3:22 PM

I've said for a long time that while he was without doubt the best 250 guy in 2016, he wasn't just crushing Savatgy and the Martins - and no one is lining up to give them top dollar 450 gigs.

His path so far is very similar to that of Ivan Tedesco, who won both 250 titles but found the 450s to be much more challenging and crash-prone. I suspect he will be more successful than IT over the long run, he works very hard and has a lot of desire. But anyone expecting him to be another RC or Stew just hasn't been paying attention.

|

6/8/2018 3:24 PM

GuyB wrote:

Where? I’d guess that it runs through Red Bull KTM.

TXDirt wrote:

Agree. I think Marvin's best days are behind him. I'm not saying that in a negative sense. He can still win and he still kicks ass. But he's 28 years old now. He's only 15 days younger then Dungey, who's already retired. Motorcycle racing is a young mans game....

Webb still has untapped potential that perhaps someone like Decoster could help open up.

Tell that to Cairoli...take JH out and he is absolutely stomping on everyone else.....at the ripe old age of 32

|

Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

6/8/2018 3:37 PM

GuyB wrote:

Where? I’d guess that it runs through Red Bull KTM.

TXDirt wrote:

Agree. I think Marvin's best days are behind him. I'm not saying that in a negative sense. He can still win and he still kicks ass. But he's 28 years old now. He's only 15 days younger then Dungey, who's already retired. Motorcycle racing is a young mans game....

Webb still has untapped potential that perhaps someone like Decoster could help open up.

BobPA wrote:

Tell that to Cairoli...take JH out and he is absolutely stomping on everyone else.....at the ripe old age of 32

Marvin is not AC. So that doesn't fit. Again, it's not a knock on Marivn. Just reality.

|

6/8/2018 3:51 PM

I still see coop doing well with some decent time racing without injuries. He has a ton of heart and talent, things just haven't been working for him

|

6/8/2018 4:03 PM

Well it is a 25-35 year olds sport now. With maturity comes better chances at championships. Very much unlike my era where 25+ was considered veterans

|

6/8/2018 4:14 PM

swtwtwtw wrote:

Well it is a 25-35 year olds sport now. With maturity comes better chances at championships. Very much unlike my era where 25+ was considered veterans

25-35?

Based on what?

|

6/8/2018 4:15 PM

That was the biggest pile of ramblings and poor grammar I have ever seen. At no time did your incoherent ramblings or insane ideals make sense. We are all now dumber for having read it. May god have mercy on your soul

|

6/8/2018 4:16 PM

lol OP did you watch the USGP against Herlings?

Not like the hype wasn't legit around him moving up.

|

6/8/2018 4:20 PM

MinnesotaMX704 wrote:

lol OP did you watch the USGP against Herlings?

Not like the hype wasn't legit around him moving up.

You are only as good as your last race....

I say that as a big Webb fan.

You can't point to a race two years ago. Herling's is leading MXGP championship and winning races on the toughest tracks in the world. Webb is on the couch and has yet to log a moto win since that USGP two years ago.

So yeah...

|

6/8/2018 4:44 PM

swtwtwtw wrote:

Well it is a 25-35 year olds sport now. With maturity comes better chances at championships. Very much unlike my era where 25+ was considered veterans

TXDirt wrote:

25-35?

Based on what?

How olds brayton? He seems to be getting better the older he gets

|

6/8/2018 4:46 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/8/2018 4:46 PM

Curious as to what he would be signed for money wise? Maybe a bonus laden deal, his last 2 years haven't amounted too much.

|

vomiting equals disqualification.

6/8/2018 4:52 PM

swtwtwtw wrote:

Well it is a 25-35 year olds sport now. With maturity comes better chances at championships. Very much unlike my era where 25+ was considered veterans

TXDirt wrote:

25-35?

Based on what?

moto#52 wrote:

How olds brayton? He seems to be getting better the older he gets

Brayton is certainly going good but he is an exception. Rarely do guys continue to race into their late 20's and 30's and be competitive for wins. Not saying its impossible but it's more likely a guy slows down when he reaches 30 rather than suddenly getting way faster at that age. I sure don't know many 35 year olds winning races right now but I could be wrong.

|

6/8/2018 4:53 PM

You remember that guy Jake Weimer. That.

|

6/8/2018 5:00 PM

daemon616 wrote:

You remember that guy Jake Weimer. That.

Jake Weimer didn't have a outdoor championship like Webb did. Nor do I think Jake Weimer has the same talent as Cooper Webb. It's been a rough 450 career so far for Webb but I certainly think he has the potential to do so much more than Weimer.

|

6/8/2018 5:10 PM

daemon616 wrote:

You remember that guy Jake Weimer. That.

shredder22 wrote:

Jake Weimer didn't have a outdoor championship like Webb did. Nor do I think Jake Weimer has the same talent as Cooper Webb. It's been a rough 450 career so far for Webb but I certainly think he has the potential to do so much more than Weimer.

He's either too little or two weak I'm not sure which at this point.

|

6/8/2018 5:39 PM

hes too short for the yamaha

|

6/8/2018 5:41 PM

Didn't Marv come close to winning a 450 SX championship this year despite giving up a whole race...? Yeah... he's definitely on the way out...

|

6/8/2018 5:41 PM

Confidence seems to be everything with Webb. I think injuries and a lack of confidence in his bike have hurt him the last two years.He seems to ride his best when he has that chip on his shoulder. Maybe a change of scenery is what he needs. I would like to see him get that fire back that he had in the 250 class.

|

6/8/2018 5:46 PM

ktmdan wrote:

Didn't Marv come close to winning a 450 SX championship this year despite giving up a whole race...? Yeah... he's definitely on the way out...

Yeah I'm not buying Marvin on the way down either

|

6/8/2018 6:20 PM

How much of a difference, from an athleticism standpoint, is there between a 21 year old and a 28 year old? Not much, if any. I think what makes for early retirements in dangerous sports is some guys that get into their upper 20's start thinking about life after racing; wife, kids, etc. Marvin is in just as good of shape as Forkner and being that his wife is a big part of his program I don't think they're planning a family anytime soon. I beg to differ that Marvin's best days are behind him, especially due to his age.

|

6/8/2018 6:25 PM

BR8ES wrote:

Curious as to what he would be signed for money wise? Maybe a bonus laden deal, his last 2 years haven't amounted too much.

Coop is salaried at $2M right now. He would not make that much going somewhere else IMO given his performance on the big bike. He's either going to stay put and perform or take a pay cut and go somewhere else.

|

6/8/2018 6:38 PM

swtwtwtw wrote:

Well it is a 25-35 year olds sport now. With maturity comes better chances at championships. Very much unlike my era where 25+ was considered veterans

TXDirt wrote:

25-35?

Based on what?

moto#52 wrote:

How olds brayton? He seems to be getting better the older he gets

How old were RC, RV, and Dungey when they retired again? Oh yeah, just over 25. It's not a 25-35 year old's "sport now". Never will be.

|

6/8/2018 6:40 PM

ktmdan wrote:

Didn't Marv come close to winning a 450 SX championship this year despite giving up a whole race...? Yeah... he's definitely on the way out...

Didn't the guy who won the championship give up a whole race also? I think the guy that got third gave up three races.

|

6/8/2018 7:09 PM

GuyB wrote:

Where? I’d guess that it runs through Red Bull KTM.

^^^

|

6/8/2018 7:41 PM

TXDirt wrote:

25-35?

Based on what?

moto#52 wrote:

How olds brayton? He seems to be getting better the older he gets

Squirrelings wrote:

How old were RC, RV, and Dungey when they retired again? Oh yeah, just over 25. It's not a 25-35 year old's "sport now". Never will be.

9 of the top 12 riders in the 450s are in that age group including the top 4. whistling

|

6/8/2018 9:11 PM

Give him time. With coop he starts slow n builds. He got a win, then a few more, then won everything. He builds slow but once he gets it figured out hes hard to beat. Hes consistently gotten better. Hes making his way towards the front n when he gets there hell stay. How long did it take musquin to get his first win? Years. Once he did hes now top 2-3. I see the same thing with webb hell be fine. Hell even tomac has been in 450s for yearssss n finally just got his first mx champ. And still no sx champ. Hell get there.

|