The Bike that Killed the 2 Stroke!

8/9/2020 6:36pm
What the heck are you talking about??.. you found a couple of no-name guys with the same opinion as you, that's all. I thought you had a video documenting a corporate insider spilling the beans or something, but nope.. you think you won a silly argument without adding insight and just finding another person with the same opinion (easy to do on the internet).. perhaps you feel you brilliantly won an important argument.. go pat yourself on the back and give your self a trophy Smile . You keep hanging on to the most rudimentary point w/o addressing the other (perhaps more significant) points that are brought up. You might think of what the world would look like today if the big 4 did NOT get the sanctioning body's rules changed and they all kept selling and developing a full line of 2 strokes. Keeping in mind that mx riding is a lot more than pro level racing, we can be fairly sure the world would not look today if those 2 things were different regardless of the intro of that first YZF.
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G-man
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8/9/2020 7:05pm
Don't blow a gasket TT!!! Woohoo

I was simply watching some YouTube videos and that came up so I did the old copy/paste.

BTW that's a pretty big "If" you posted.

The AMA folded and changed the rules and Yamaha took advantage of it while the others were sitting on the can with their pants around their ankles. Laughing

The Shop

Dropbear
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8/9/2020 7:20pm
If you take a world view, a 4 stroke has won every open class world championship since 93 (except 94) it didn’t just all of a sudden happen in 1998. BTW, I’m not pro 4, 2 or E biased.
burn1986
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8/9/2020 7:48pm Edited Date/Time 8/9/2020 7:50pm
It’s what we have now. It is well known that Honda never did want to produce 2-strokes, and they’ve been a driving force against it. There was some talk around ‘05 of upping the displacement in the AMA Pro Racing rules, but Honda would’ve gotten mad and there was a feeling that they would pull support from MX and SX if the promoters and AMA allowed the change. I’m sure the other Big 4 OEMs would’ve followed suit. So, this is what we have.
bents
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8/9/2020 8:08pm
RudyRayMo wrote:
Stock 2003 yz450f would pull your arms out of socket lol I knew then it was over.
Totally agree-game changer.
8/9/2020 8:17pm
G-man wrote:
Don't blow a gasket TT!!! :woohoo: I was simply watching some YouTube videos and that came up so I did the old copy/paste. BTW that's a...
Don't blow a gasket TT!!! Woohoo

I was simply watching some YouTube videos and that came up so I did the old copy/paste.

BTW that's a pretty big "If" you posted.

The AMA folded and changed the rules and Yamaha took advantage of it while the others were sitting on the can with their pants around their ankles. Laughing
you mean my smiley face didn't communicate my casual, relaxed attitude? Smile ..

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H4L
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8/12/2020 9:43pm Edited Date/Time 8/12/2020 9:55pm
Interesting info from Doug Henry about the 4t on the Whiskey Throttle show.. It sounds like the AMA had some part with the demise of the 2t.. It's at the 1:26:27 mark. Good vid.. Enjoy..

https://youtu.be/CqgLb9BKq6Y?t=5185
8/13/2020 1:43am
H4L wrote:
Interesting info from Doug Henry about the 4t on the Whiskey Throttle show.. It sounds like the AMA had some part with the demise of the...
Interesting info from Doug Henry about the 4t on the Whiskey Throttle show.. It sounds like the AMA had some part with the demise of the 2t.. It's at the 1:26:27 mark. Good vid.. Enjoy..

https://youtu.be/CqgLb9BKq6Y?t=5185
This is such a great video.. 3 of my favorite MX personalities. Thanks for sharing! Interesting about the plastic gears in the transmission to get around the AMA rules.

mike
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davis224
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8/13/2020 7:49am
Bearuno wrote:
Yamaha Did Not have the rules changed in the 250cc class in the USA. The USA long had rules that allowed up to 540cc 4ts in...
Yamaha Did Not have the rules changed in the 250cc class in the USA.

The USA long had rules that allowed up to 540cc 4ts in the 250 class. Remember the KTM in SX? You blokes need to know some real rules history.

As for the 125 class, I think for many years it was around the 175 /180cc mark that a 4 Stroke could be - but I'll willingly concede that I'd be wrong on that.

The 85cc class : 125cc 4ts could be used in the USA, but from what I read, Honda realized that it would have been rather unreliable / highly strung, so they made the 150, and tried to steam roller associations into accepting it - most did, but some, told them No. And later, many withdrew that allowance.

Honda announced in '97, that in 10 years - 2007, that would be the last of their production of 2 strokes. I found it gobsmacking that the vast majority of Journalists, let alone Riders, did not heed or know of that. As a company, Honda were always 4 stroke oriented. It was inculcated by Soichiro Honda himself - he Hated 2ts. . They made 2ts, only when they Had to with Racing and the Market demands - money talks.

Environmental issues with 2ts? Yes, they were, and are, an easy target. ''Horrible, Smoking Things". Don't get your knickers in a knot - I ride / own 2ts - well I ride / own 4ts as well. The irony now is All ICE powered vehicles are being ever more demonized.......

But, more so than that, was the imperative of using the technology being poured into 4ts, with Road Bikes, and Superbikes. With so much learned by that avenue of development and production, it was logical to apply it over a wide range of product. Especially when there was a very significant capacity advantage allowed by the rules. Doing away with another, in Manufacturers eyes, separate Development Stream- that of 2 Strokes - was logical to most of them.

Me , I love ICE bikes, but I will happily buy an E Bike, when what I want of one, becomes a reality. While keeping my ICE Bikes.

But, I want Equivalency - Capacity for Capacity.

4 Strokes ceased needing Handicap Class rules, about 2 decades ago. It's complete BS, and controllers of the sport that don't allow it, are doing the Sport a huge disservice, and, they are spineless for Not introducing Equivalency. And those that allow it, but restrict modifications to 2Ts, whilst allowing near open slather on 4T modifications, are just as complicit with damaging the Sport.


I remember Dowd riding the big 520 SX outdoors
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Spudnut
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8/13/2020 8:00am
Say two strokes are dead one more time......*takes shirt off*
H4L
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8/13/2020 8:30am
This is such a great video.. 3 of my favorite MX personalities. Thanks for sharing! Interesting about the plastic gears in the transmission to get around...
This is such a great video.. 3 of my favorite MX personalities. Thanks for sharing! Interesting about the plastic gears in the transmission to get around the AMA rules.

mike
Yeah. It was interesting to hear that Yamaha built 6 of them & they cost about $300K each. Also, they were a 426cc from the start.

A fellow worker at the time bought a brand new 99 YZF400 when they 1st came out & then a new 01 YZF426. I got to ride them both & didn’t like the heavy feel they had with the engine breaking as well. They felt like the Honda XR 4t’s I had ridden in the late 80’s..

Also got to ride 02 & 03 CRF450’s when they 1st came out from fellow riders & they still didn’t feel as good as a 250 2t to me.

It wasn’t till early 2005 when I got to ride an 05 CRF450r that changed my perception of the new 4ts.. That bike was much better & improved over the prior models. I liked it enough to go buy my 1st 450 in Nov. of that year. I never made the switch 100% & always kept a 250 2t in the stable.
If I had to choose between my 20 WE & 3rd gen AF CR250r it would be my 2t.
Even though I finally believe the 17+ 450 is a better all around bike.

I will always be a 2t die hard at heart since that is what I grew up on & raced..
Jardo
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8/13/2020 8:53am
TriRacer27 wrote:
Sorry, the YZF started the attack on the 2-stroke, but this is the bike that really killed it. This was the first bike were pro riders...
Sorry, the YZF started the attack on the 2-stroke, but this is the bike that really killed it. This was the first bike were pro riders didn't really feel like they were giving up handling for power.

By any standards.. that bike is beautiful
BobPA
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8/13/2020 9:29am
TriRacer27 wrote:
Sorry, the YZF started the attack on the 2-stroke, but this is the bike that really killed it. This was the first bike were pro riders...
Sorry, the YZF started the attack on the 2-stroke, but this is the bike that really killed it. This was the first bike were pro riders didn't really feel like they were giving up handling for power.

Still looks great, even today.
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JPond53
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8/13/2020 11:31am
mattman631 wrote:
I jumped off 80s onto a YZ250F back in 01. At the time seemed like the right move, looking back I wish I would have spent...
I jumped off 80s onto a YZ250F back in 01. At the time seemed like the right move, looking back I wish I would have spent a year on a 125 but oh well. Now I have a 125 and a 250 2 stroke and when I go to the local MX track on my 125 I get aggravated because none of these 4 stroke kids know how to make a rut, its all powerslide in and point and shoot. Makes it difficult to carry speed on the 125.
No kidding! Lol it’s aggravating sometimes going to the tracks and having fucked up ruts that don’t flow at all. Now I just try and make “my” rut between the other ones or rail the outside since nobody uses that as often..
Stevo683
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8/13/2020 1:09pm
BroFoSho wrote:
250 four-strokes are still better than 250 two-strokes...

Case in point... Canadian Nationals
seth505 wrote:
Say what? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/stories/2014/08/18/full_LO1_586287.jpg[/img]
Say what?

-MAVERICK- wrote:
That was several years ago, but yeah, he still chose to ride the 2 stroke to defend his title. Kaven was the man.
That was several years ago, but yeah, he still chose to ride the 2 stroke to defend his title.

Kaven was the man.

Good video! Dude gets it done by sitting down alot when he rides. Love the sound of the 2 smoke!
Sierra Ranger
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8/13/2020 1:25pm
mattman631 wrote:
I jumped off 80s onto a YZ250F back in 01. At the time seemed like the right move, looking back I wish I would have spent...
I jumped off 80s onto a YZ250F back in 01. At the time seemed like the right move, looking back I wish I would have spent a year on a 125 but oh well. Now I have a 125 and a 250 2 stroke and when I go to the local MX track on my 125 I get aggravated because none of these 4 stroke kids know how to make a rut, its all powerslide in and point and shoot. Makes it difficult to carry speed on the 125.
JPond53 wrote:
No kidding! Lol it’s aggravating sometimes going to the tracks and having fucked up ruts that don’t flow at all. Now I just try and make...
No kidding! Lol it’s aggravating sometimes going to the tracks and having fucked up ruts that don’t flow at all. Now I just try and make “my” rut between the other ones or rail the outside since nobody uses that as often..
This is a real problem in races when you come into corners and its a curlique inside rut about the size of a fingernail clipping. Much harder to rail on a two-stroke 250.
JPond53
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8/13/2020 3:24pm
mattman631 wrote:
I jumped off 80s onto a YZ250F back in 01. At the time seemed like the right move, looking back I wish I would have spent...
I jumped off 80s onto a YZ250F back in 01. At the time seemed like the right move, looking back I wish I would have spent a year on a 125 but oh well. Now I have a 125 and a 250 2 stroke and when I go to the local MX track on my 125 I get aggravated because none of these 4 stroke kids know how to make a rut, its all powerslide in and point and shoot. Makes it difficult to carry speed on the 125.
JPond53 wrote:
No kidding! Lol it’s aggravating sometimes going to the tracks and having fucked up ruts that don’t flow at all. Now I just try and make...
No kidding! Lol it’s aggravating sometimes going to the tracks and having fucked up ruts that don’t flow at all. Now I just try and make “my” rut between the other ones or rail the outside since nobody uses that as often..
This is a real problem in races when you come into corners and its a curlique inside rut about the size of a fingernail clipping. Much...
This is a real problem in races when you come into corners and its a curlique inside rut about the size of a fingernail clipping. Much harder to rail on a two-stroke 250.
YES!!!! Hahaha I mean at the end of the day if you can keep up with the guys then you’re doing alright...you’re riding better and with a disadvantage...
8/13/2020 5:40pm
So it's safe to say that today the motocross world is a 4 Stroke utopia. Back in the 90's though 2 Strokes firmly ruled the roost...
So it's safe to say that today the motocross world is a 4 Stroke utopia. Back in the 90's though 2 Strokes firmly ruled the roost. However, the dirt bike scene was changed forever in 1998 when Yamaha released the YZ400f. It's easy to argue that this is the bike that killed the 2 stroke...

I recently found a mint condition, virtually un-ridden '98 YZ400 and i knew i just had to make a video about it. In this vid i go on a deep dive into the history and impact of the bike, we give it a full on test and review and finally put it in a stop watch race against a modern day smoker!

Let me know what you think guys! Did the 400f change the sport for better or for worse?

The Bike that KILLED the 2 Stroke
Yeh, LOL!

It now looks like 15 Year old 2-Stroke Technology has now "KILLED the 450's" at least for 80% of us who are not Pros! It just shows that it was wasted MONEY DOWN THE DRAIN!

Check the Video Out......

In 2019 at the Monster Energy Cup LCQ, with a whole field of 450's a "YZ ESR 325" (2-Stroke) HOLESHOTS the First Turn and then - nobody touches Mike Alessi.
We have been SOLD a Bag of S,,,,,.when 15 year old technology seems to be good enough! Even Chad Reed got beat!

https://zh-cn.facebook.com/YZingerz/videos/full-lqc-from-the-2019-monst…



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-MAVERICK-
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8/13/2020 5:44pm
^^^ 🤦‍♂️
8/13/2020 6:09pm



Even in the Second Race the YZ ESR 325 beats a Factory Yamaha to the First Turn, it's called "KEEP IT SIMPLE STUIPD"!

News if you don't read, F1 (Formula Cars are planning to use a 2-Stroke Hybrid Engine in the year 2025!

What a JOKE OF A POST!

Will we now say in 2025, Oh 4-Strokes are Dead, duh, LOL!
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8/13/2020 6:19pm
Formula 1 is considering a switch to two-stroke engines for 2025, according to the sport's chief technical officer, Pat Symonds.


However, Symonds believes that these issues are no longer present, and is currently working on what 'the future of our power units will look like.'

He is quoted by Motorsport Magazine: "At F1 this is what we are engaged in at the moment. I’m very keen on it being a two-stroke [engine].

"Much more efficient, great sound from the exhaust and a lot of the problems with the old two strokes are just not relevant any more.

"The opposed-piston engine is very much coming back and already in road car form at around 50 per cent efficiency.

"Direct injection, pressure charging, and new ignition systems have all allowed new forms of two-stroke engines to be very efficient and very emission-friendly. I think there’s a good future for them."

Eco-fuels are also being considered as a viable fuel option, as the sport continues to find ways of reducing their carbon footprint.
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-MAVERICK-
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8/13/2020 6:55pm
seth505 wrote:
Say what? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/stories/2014/08/18/full_LO1_586287.jpg[/img]
Say what?

-MAVERICK- wrote:
That was several years ago, but yeah, he still chose to ride the 2 stroke to defend his title. Kaven was the man.
That was several years ago, but yeah, he still chose to ride the 2 stroke to defend his title.

Kaven was the man.

Stevo683 wrote:
Good video! Dude gets it done by sitting down alot when he rides. Love the sound of the 2 smoke!
Good video! Dude gets it done by sitting down alot when he rides. Love the sound of the 2 smoke!
If you or anyone else is interested, you can re-watch the seasons where he rode the 2 stroke.

2014 Season: Rode the 250 4t and 250 2t.

2015 Season: Rode the 250 2t all season.

There's some good racing!
8/13/2020 7:01pm
This 2-Stroke is all 80% of us would need. Yamaha get with it! Setup the Contract with Artic Cat to use there 400cc Fuel Injected Engine if you don't want to invest in 2-Stroke Technology.

Honda can F off and die for all the good they do......

Artice Cat 400cc 65 HP, sounds like a way to ONCE AGAIN INCREASE Off -Road Motorcycle Sales! OEM's are you listening??



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8/13/2020 7:16pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
That was several years ago, but yeah, he still chose to ride the 2 stroke to defend his title. Kaven was the man.
That was several years ago, but yeah, he still chose to ride the 2 stroke to defend his title.

Kaven was the man.

Stevo683 wrote:
Good video! Dude gets it done by sitting down alot when he rides. Love the sound of the 2 smoke!
Good video! Dude gets it done by sitting down alot when he rides. Love the sound of the 2 smoke!
-MAVERICK- wrote:
If you or anyone else is interested, you can re-watch the seasons where he rode the 2 stroke. [url=https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-kjqfCWC-XAyA1Rv43QAduev9ScgKDla][b]2014 Season:[/b][/url] Rode the 250 4t and 250...
If you or anyone else is interested, you can re-watch the seasons where he rode the 2 stroke.

2014 Season: Rode the 250 4t and 250 2t.

2015 Season: Rode the 250 2t all season.

There's some good racing!
I remember this, the USA should allow 250 2-T's to compete with 250 4-T's, a lot of people could ride professionally for a lot less money! Good Post.....
8/16/2020 2:38am
Who cares? All dirtbikes are fun. I love my YZ 450F and TC 300 equally much.
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