The Bike that Killed the 2 Stroke!

www.toofastfilms.com
Edited Date/Time 8/16/2020 2:38am
So it's safe to say that today the motocross world is a 4 Stroke utopia. Back in the 90's though 2 Strokes firmly ruled the roost. However, the dirt bike scene was changed forever in 1998 when Yamaha released the YZ400f. It's easy to argue that this is the bike that killed the 2 stroke...

I recently found a mint condition, virtually un-ridden '98 YZ400 and i knew i just had to make a video about it. In this vid i go on a deep dive into the history and impact of the bike, we give it a full on test and review and finally put it in a stop watch race against a modern day smoker!

Let me know what you think guys! Did the 400f change the sport for better or for worse?

The Bike that KILLED the 2 Stroke
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theycallmeebryan 8/6/2020 7:43am
8/6/2020 7:43am Edited Date/Time 8/6/2020 7:44am
A video about the YZ400f killing the 2 stroke, and you pit it against a YZ125 to compare? Blink
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TriRacer27
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TriRacer27 8/6/2020 7:59am
8/6/2020 7:59am
Sorry, the YZF started the attack on the 2-stroke, but this is the bike that really killed it. This was the first bike were pro riders didn't really feel like they were giving up handling for power.

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www.toofastfilms.com 8/6/2020 8:07am
8/6/2020 8:07am
theycallmeebryan wrote:
A video about the YZ400f killing the 2 stroke, and you pit it against a YZ125 to compare? :blink:
A video about the YZ400f killing the 2 stroke, and you pit it against a YZ125 to compare? Blink
What can i say...we didn't have a 250 available to us! haha I thought it would just be fun to see the difference and to be honest I didn't think the 400 would even be able to come close to the 125!
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www.toofastfilms.com 8/6/2020 8:09am
8/6/2020 8:09am
TriRacer27 wrote:
Sorry, the YZF started the attack on the 2-stroke, but this is the bike that really killed it. This was the first bike were pro riders...
Sorry, the YZF started the attack on the 2-stroke, but this is the bike that really killed it. This was the first bike were pro riders didn't really feel like they were giving up handling for power.

Fair point my man, but without the YZ400f do you think Honda would've ploughed on with the CRF? It's definitely interesting to speculate!
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GangGreen
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GangGreen 8/6/2020 8:49am
8/6/2020 8:49am
Four-strokes are NOT better, they are given a ridiculous double-displacement advantage. These will go down as the dark ages of MX, being that MX Sports keeps in place in professional racing that ridiculous "Double-Displacement" rule, inadvertently killing the BEST PLATFORM ever designed, the 250cc Two Stroke.




Photo Credit: Simon Cudby / RacerX
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Jamal#440
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Jamal#440 8/6/2020 9:10am
8/6/2020 9:10am Edited Date/Time 8/6/2020 9:22am
Now I'm older 4s are a good option but I will always hate them on the Pro scene. I quit watching SX and MX.
Im not watching Pros engine brake their way through a race or any of the BS with track design and formats.
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Jamal#440
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Jamal#440 8/6/2020 9:12am
8/6/2020 9:12am
GangGreen wrote:
[b]Four-strokes are NOT better, they are given a ridiculous double-displacement advantage. These will go down as the dark ages of MX, being that MX Sports keeps...
Four-strokes are NOT better, they are given a ridiculous double-displacement advantage. These will go down as the dark ages of MX, being that MX Sports keeps in place in professional racing that ridiculous "Double-Displacement" rule, inadvertently killing the BEST PLATFORM ever designed, the 250cc Two Stroke.




Photo Credit: Simon Cudby / RacerX
Exactly.
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BroFoSho
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BroFoSho 8/6/2020 9:16am
8/6/2020 9:16am
Jamal#440 wrote:
Now I'm older 4s are a good option but I will always hate them on the Pro scene. I quit watching SX and MX. Im not...
Now I'm older 4s are a good option but I will always hate them on the Pro scene. I quit watching SX and MX.
Im not watching Pros engine brake their way through a race or any of the BS with track design and formats.
Woah... so you haven't watched a SX or MX race since 2005???

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Jamal#440
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Jamal#440 8/6/2020 9:21am
8/6/2020 9:21am Edited Date/Time 8/6/2020 9:38am
BroFoSho wrote:
Woah... so you haven't watched a SX or MX race since 2005???

No nothing ama related.
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BroFoSho
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BroFoSho 8/6/2020 9:24am
8/6/2020 9:24am
GangGreen wrote:
[b]Four-strokes are NOT better, they are given a ridiculous double-displacement advantage. These will go down as the dark ages of MX, being that MX Sports keeps...
Four-strokes are NOT better, they are given a ridiculous double-displacement advantage. These will go down as the dark ages of MX, being that MX Sports keeps in place in professional racing that ridiculous "Double-Displacement" rule, inadvertently killing the BEST PLATFORM ever designed, the 250cc Two Stroke.




Photo Credit: Simon Cudby / RacerX
250 four-strokes are still better than 250 two-strokes...

Case in point... Canadian Nationals
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str8line
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str8line 8/6/2020 9:43am
8/6/2020 9:43am
Jamal#440 wrote:
Now I'm older 4s are a good option but I will always hate them on the Pro scene. I quit watching SX and MX. Im not...
Now I'm older 4s are a good option but I will always hate them on the Pro scene. I quit watching SX and MX.
Im not watching Pros engine brake their way through a race or any of the BS with track design and formats.
Sounds reasonable.
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bvm111
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bvm111 8/6/2020 9:49am
8/6/2020 9:49am
i love my KX250 for what it is and I love my 20.5 FE for what it is.... can’t we all just get along

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mwssquad827
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mwssquad827 8/6/2020 10:00am
8/6/2020 10:00am Edited Date/Time 8/6/2020 10:01am
GangGreen wrote:
[b]Four-strokes are NOT better, they are given a ridiculous double-displacement advantage. These will go down as the dark ages of MX, being that MX Sports keeps...
Four-strokes are NOT better, they are given a ridiculous double-displacement advantage. These will go down as the dark ages of MX, being that MX Sports keeps in place in professional racing that ridiculous "Double-Displacement" rule, inadvertently killing the BEST PLATFORM ever designed, the 250cc Two Stroke.




Photo Credit: Simon Cudby / RacerX
BroFoSho wrote:
250 four-strokes are still better than 250 two-strokes...

Case in point... Canadian Nationals
If you took a 250 2 stroke and had mitch Payton work his magic like he did for his 125’s back in the day, that 250 2T would fucking smoke a pc 250 4T all day everyday!!!!

And the Canadian nationals won’t let the 250 smokers have anything aftermarket.. but will let the 250 thumpers be built.. It’s in the rule book

So case in point, your wrong! Dead wrong!😂
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JAFO92
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JAFO92 8/6/2020 10:03am
8/6/2020 10:03am Edited Date/Time 8/6/2020 10:12am
Red Dog and Fonseca are the two guys who paid the dues on those initial hard-starting pigs. In those early years I saw them stall and kick those tractors till they were as blue as the fenders hoping it would start.
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JeepnMike
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JeepnMike 8/6/2020 10:31am
8/6/2020 10:31am
JAFO92 wrote:
Red Dog and Fonseca are the two guys who paid the dues on those initial hard-starting pigs. In those early years I saw them stall and...
Red Dog and Fonseca are the two guys who paid the dues on those initial hard-starting pigs. In those early years I saw them stall and kick those tractors till they were as blue as the fenders hoping it would start.
When I think of that era, I always think of Doug Henry and even Lance Smail.
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seth505
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seth505 8/6/2020 10:57am
8/6/2020 10:57am
BroFoSho wrote:
250 four-strokes are still better than 250 two-strokes...

Case in point... Canadian Nationals
Say what?

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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 8/6/2020 10:58am
8/6/2020 10:58am
BroFoSho wrote:
Woah... so you haven't watched a SX or MX race since 2005???

Jamal#440 wrote:
No nothing ama related.
What about GP’s with the same displacement rules?
-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 8/6/2020 11:04am
8/6/2020 11:04am
BroFoSho wrote:
250 four-strokes are still better than 250 two-strokes...

Case in point... Canadian Nationals
seth505 wrote:
Say what? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/stories/2014/08/18/full_LO1_586287.jpg[/img]
Say what?

That was several years ago, but yeah, he still chose to ride the 2 stroke to defend his title.

Kaven was the man.

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BroFoSho
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BroFoSho 8/6/2020 11:05am
8/6/2020 11:05am
BroFoSho wrote:
250 four-strokes are still better than 250 two-strokes...

Case in point... Canadian Nationals
seth505 wrote:
Say what? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/stories/2014/08/18/full_LO1_586287.jpg[/img]
Say what?

That's a 300cc
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mattman631
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mattman631 8/6/2020 11:06am
8/6/2020 11:06am
I jumped off 80s onto a YZ250F back in 01. At the time seemed like the right move, looking back I wish I would have spent a year on a 125 but oh well. Now I have a 125 and a 250 2 stroke and when I go to the local MX track on my 125 I get aggravated because none of these 4 stroke kids know how to make a rut, its all powerslide in and point and shoot. Makes it difficult to carry speed on the 125.
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-MAVERICK- 8/6/2020 11:08am
8/6/2020 11:08am Edited Date/Time 8/6/2020 11:13am
BroFoSho wrote:
250 four-strokes are still better than 250 two-strokes...

Case in point... Canadian Nationals
seth505 wrote:
Say what? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/stories/2014/08/18/full_LO1_586287.jpg[/img]
Say what?

BroFoSho wrote:
That's a 300cc
Um, no.

Edit: That looks like 2014, so it's a 250 with some engine work, pipe and silencer. 2015 was a stock 250 with pipe and silencer.
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AH387
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AH387 8/6/2020 11:23am
8/6/2020 11:23am
Pretty cool vid. And that's a nice 98 YZ400F. Thanks for posting.
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Dirty Points 8/6/2020 11:24am
8/6/2020 11:24am Edited Date/Time 8/6/2020 4:08pm
BroFoSho wrote:
250 four-strokes are still better than 250 two-strokes...

Case in point... Canadian Nationals
You mean the series that was won by a stock-motor 2-stroke, so they made it a rule that no rider who had previously finished well in a season could ride one?
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HighPlainsSquid 8/6/2020 11:24am
8/6/2020 11:24am
bvm111 wrote:
i love my KX250 for what it is and I love my 20.5 FE for what it is.... can’t we all just get along

Same here, except I'm 1/2 your displacement.

It's a dirt bike!!! I love 'em all!!! I want a YZ250FX and a YZ250X and a KTM 350 XC-F next!!!
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Paw Paw
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Paw Paw 8/6/2020 12:32pm
8/6/2020 12:32pm
The 2001 Yamaha YZ250 f is the bike that turned us from 2 strokes to 4 strokes. Then the 2003 Honda CRF450r put the last nail in the coffin.

Paw Paw
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byke
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byke 8/6/2020 12:50pm
8/6/2020 12:50pm
TriRacer27 wrote:
Sorry, the YZF started the attack on the 2-stroke, but this is the bike that really killed it. This was the first bike were pro riders...
Sorry, the YZF started the attack on the 2-stroke, but this is the bike that really killed it. This was the first bike were pro riders didn't really feel like they were giving up handling for power.

Negative. 50cc has literally nothing to do with the success of four strokes, or the death of two strokes. It was no single thing, but it was actually the YZ250F that did the bulk of the 2t killing. The YZ400F didn't sell very well and people were turned off to the displacement because of our 2t mentality thinking that 250cc was the ticket and anything beyond that or anything 4t was for the desert or playriding or whatever. Don't forget that there's a three year gap between the YZ400F and any other 4t mx'er, which would end up being the YZ250F. Yamaha had been working on the 250F design after they finished the 400, but a slowing economy and poor sales of the YZ400F cause them to put on the brakes, except an engineer continued with the design in his spare time. Yamaha began to realize the interest in a 250 and when they started to think about finishing the design, the engineer was able to present them with a finished product. With the design being finished they were able to respond to the market faster than anyone else and the crazy sales of the YZ250F is what truly started the 4t craze.
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