The Answer is simple...

mr_big
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Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 7:55pm
All this talk about 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, is just that.....talk.
Some of you belters need to put your money where your mouth is.
We as consumers caused the two stroke to be gone, we have no-one to blame other than ourselves.
Dont buy any four-strokes. The manufacturers will soon get the message when KTM cant build enough 250SX's.
Why do you think Pro-Circuit has the cash to fund a race-team that puts new motors in every moto, thus destroying privateers? Too many people dropping too much cash on $1000 exhaust systems & anodized engine plugs.
I have a 09 250SX. I'll never buy another 4 stroke.
DC made the comment we must race what the OEMs build or they'll go home...
they all need to remember without US, the consumer, THEY have no bidness, I know who needs who more......
Oh yeah, this is post number 1, give it to me...
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G Force
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10/16/2009 3:33am
Are you addicted to that rush?
Kinetic1
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10/16/2009 4:43am
Well DUH!!!!! Tell us something we don't know genius.Whistling
10/16/2009 4:47am
And yet another 2 stroke thread. How about a whole section for nothing but bitching about the 2 stroke not being in pro races?

The Shop

Highsider
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10/16/2009 5:16am
The best day of my motocross life, that happens to cover over 43 years, was the day I heard Yamaha was producing the YZ400F!

Check my avatar and you see that I was struggling to moto big displacement four strokes back in the late '60s. I love my modern 450 thumper and will likely buy another new on in the next few months.
mxrose3
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10/16/2009 6:21am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:46am
mr_big wrote:
All this talk about 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, is just that.....talk. Some of you belters need to put your money where your mouth is. We...
All this talk about 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, is just that.....talk.
Some of you belters need to put your money where your mouth is.
We as consumers caused the two stroke to be gone, we have no-one to blame other than ourselves.
Dont buy any four-strokes. The manufacturers will soon get the message when KTM cant build enough 250SX's.
Why do you think Pro-Circuit has the cash to fund a race-team that puts new motors in every moto, thus destroying privateers? Too many people dropping too much cash on $1000 exhaust systems & anodized engine plugs.
I have a 09 250SX. I'll never buy another 4 stroke.
DC made the comment we must race what the OEMs build or they'll go home...
they all need to remember without US, the consumer, THEY have no bidness, I know who needs who more......
Oh yeah, this is post number 1, give it to me...
yeah, and if they changed the rules to allow 700cc 8-stroke engines, we would all go out and buy one of those too. 4-strokes would be dinosaurs (again).
The rule-makers shoved this down our throat from the begining. Once the manufacturers got on board with it, there was no going back.
If you like 4-strokes, great, but even the rules up.
Racer92
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10/16/2009 6:28am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:46am
Hey Mr. Big, fishing with a Zebco 202 & worms like that wont get you the big lunkers.

Youre gonna need a big Penn Senator and some serious stink bait.....
GuyB
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10/16/2009 8:08am Edited Date/Time 10/16/2009 8:11am
Racer92 wrote:
Hey Mr. Big, fishing with a Zebco 202 & worms like that wont get you the big lunkers. Youre gonna need a big Penn Senator and...
Hey Mr. Big, fishing with a Zebco 202 & worms like that wont get you the big lunkers.

Youre gonna need a big Penn Senator and some serious stink bait.....
Actually, what he said is what I've heard from manufacturers.

If you want two-strokes, you need to vote with your wallet...and that's from the companies that are currently producing them. Do I see Honda returning to them? No, they seem to have wanted to eliminate them based on environmental issues.
10/16/2009 8:13am
Racer92 wrote:
Hey Mr. Big, fishing with a Zebco 202 & worms like that wont get you the big lunkers. Youre gonna need a big Penn Senator and...
Hey Mr. Big, fishing with a Zebco 202 & worms like that wont get you the big lunkers.

Youre gonna need a big Penn Senator and some serious stink bait.....
GuyB wrote:
Actually, what he said is what I've heard from manufacturers. If you want two-strokes, you need to vote with your wallet...and that's from the companies that...
Actually, what he said is what I've heard from manufacturers.

If you want two-strokes, you need to vote with your wallet...and that's from the companies that are currently producing them. Do I see Honda returning to them? No, they seem to have wanted to eliminate them based on environmental issues.
So is it safe to say that starting yet another 2T thread isn't the way to get it done?
txmxer
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10/16/2009 8:14am
Racer92 wrote:
Hey Mr. Big, fishing with a Zebco 202 & worms like that wont get you the big lunkers. Youre gonna need a big Penn Senator and...
Hey Mr. Big, fishing with a Zebco 202 & worms like that wont get you the big lunkers.

Youre gonna need a big Penn Senator and some serious stink bait.....
GuyB wrote:
Actually, what he said is what I've heard from manufacturers. If you want two-strokes, you need to vote with your wallet...and that's from the companies that...
Actually, what he said is what I've heard from manufacturers.

If you want two-strokes, you need to vote with your wallet...and that's from the companies that are currently producing them. Do I see Honda returning to them? No, they seem to have wanted to eliminate them based on environmental issues.
It wasn't a conspiracy, more like a lack of foresight, but the rules were put in place in such a way that the racer had no choice but to make the transition.



Tiki
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10/16/2009 8:24am
Racer92 wrote:
Hey Mr. Big, fishing with a Zebco 202 & worms like that wont get you the big lunkers. Youre gonna need a big Penn Senator and...
Hey Mr. Big, fishing with a Zebco 202 & worms like that wont get you the big lunkers.

Youre gonna need a big Penn Senator and some serious stink bait.....
GuyB wrote:
Actually, what he said is what I've heard from manufacturers. If you want two-strokes, you need to vote with your wallet...and that's from the companies that...
Actually, what he said is what I've heard from manufacturers.

If you want two-strokes, you need to vote with your wallet...and that's from the companies that are currently producing them. Do I see Honda returning to them? No, they seem to have wanted to eliminate them based on environmental issues.
GuyB has said it, I have said it, Mr Big is saying it. Hey Jackasses. That is the clue phone ringing. As a business you only have so much money. Even more so at the size of some of these manufactures. Everything is based on relation. Money out to money in.

If you spend a dime and get a penny you lose. If you want two strokes to stay around, and even KTM... they will take advantage of this if they can, soon as they go red on the two strokes kiss them gone. You have to vote with your wallet. You have to purchase new. You have to show your loyalty to the manufactures that you want this bike.

Do it quick, in two years much can change.
Tiki
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10/16/2009 8:26am
txmxer wrote:
It wasn't a conspiracy, more like a lack of foresight, but the rules were put in place in such a way that the racer had no...
It wasn't a conspiracy, more like a lack of foresight, but the rules were put in place in such a way that the racer had no choice but to make the transition.



Do you know how many bikes are actually sold to the general public over racing. Racing is a budget that gets cut in hard times. General public makes that racing budget possible. Dont blame anyone but yourself. If you didnt buy a new two stroke you arent helping the cause. Cut and dry but to a CEO making a risk, it has to be a safe risk.
Torco1
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10/16/2009 8:41am
Racer92 wrote:
Hey Mr. Big, fishing with a Zebco 202 & worms like that wont get you the big lunkers. Youre gonna need a big Penn Senator and...
Hey Mr. Big, fishing with a Zebco 202 & worms like that wont get you the big lunkers.

Youre gonna need a big Penn Senator and some serious stink bait.....
GuyB wrote:
Actually, what he said is what I've heard from manufacturers. If you want two-strokes, you need to vote with your wallet...and that's from the companies that...
Actually, what he said is what I've heard from manufacturers.

If you want two-strokes, you need to vote with your wallet...and that's from the companies that are currently producing them. Do I see Honda returning to them? No, they seem to have wanted to eliminate them based on environmental issues.
Tiki wrote:
GuyB has said it, I have said it, Mr Big is saying it. Hey Jackasses. That is the clue phone ringing. As a business you only...
GuyB has said it, I have said it, Mr Big is saying it. Hey Jackasses. That is the clue phone ringing. As a business you only have so much money. Even more so at the size of some of these manufactures. Everything is based on relation. Money out to money in.

If you spend a dime and get a penny you lose. If you want two strokes to stay around, and even KTM... they will take advantage of this if they can, soon as they go red on the two strokes kiss them gone. You have to vote with your wallet. You have to purchase new. You have to show your loyalty to the manufactures that you want this bike.

Do it quick, in two years much can change.
Thats exactly what I was saying on one of the other 68,000 2-stroke threads.......the whole pro racing displacement issue really doesnt affect to many of us, but if we want 2-strokes to stick around for US to ride, then WE need to step up and buy new 2-strokes........its as simple as that.
txmxer
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10/16/2009 8:48am
txmxer wrote:
It wasn't a conspiracy, more like a lack of foresight, but the rules were put in place in such a way that the racer had no...
It wasn't a conspiracy, more like a lack of foresight, but the rules were put in place in such a way that the racer had no choice but to make the transition.



Tiki wrote:
Do you know how many bikes are actually sold to the general public over racing. Racing is a budget that gets cut in hard times. General...
Do you know how many bikes are actually sold to the general public over racing. Racing is a budget that gets cut in hard times. General public makes that racing budget possible. Dont blame anyone but yourself. If you didnt buy a new two stroke you arent helping the cause. Cut and dry but to a CEO making a risk, it has to be a safe risk.
huh?

Are you responding to what I said? Or some imaginary comment?

In the premier class you have two options and one has a significant advantage. If someone wanted to race and be competitive only one of those options was viable. That has absolutely nothing to do with the buying public liking one technology over the other.

The game was rigged. This happens all the time. Government does it via taxes and incentives. In this case, it was done via rules and rule makers that could not foresee the inequity the rules they put in place created.

GuyB
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10/16/2009 8:51am
So is it safe to say that starting yet another 2T thread isn't the way to get it done?
You are correct, sir.
Racer92
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10/16/2009 8:54am
GuyB wrote:
Actually, what he said is what I've heard from manufacturers. If you want two-strokes, you need to vote with your wallet...and that's from the companies that...
Actually, what he said is what I've heard from manufacturers.

If you want two-strokes, you need to vote with your wallet...and that's from the companies that are currently producing them. Do I see Honda returning to them? No, they seem to have wanted to eliminate them based on environmental issues.
Ive already voted with my wallet. Right now in my garage 1 new RM250 and 1 new RM100.

Im not rich enough to stuff the ballot box any more than that.
txmxer
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10/16/2009 9:24am
txmxer wrote:
It wasn't a conspiracy, more like a lack of foresight, but the rules were put in place in such a way that the racer had no...
It wasn't a conspiracy, more like a lack of foresight, but the rules were put in place in such a way that the racer had no choice but to make the transition.



Tiki wrote:
Do you know how many bikes are actually sold to the general public over racing. Racing is a budget that gets cut in hard times. General...
Do you know how many bikes are actually sold to the general public over racing. Racing is a budget that gets cut in hard times. General public makes that racing budget possible. Dont blame anyone but yourself. If you didnt buy a new two stroke you arent helping the cause. Cut and dry but to a CEO making a risk, it has to be a safe risk.
The problem with what you are saying is simple. If the rules had not been what they were in 1998, would the four stroke revolution have ever of occurred?








WORCSRacer
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10/16/2009 9:40am
txmxer wrote:
It wasn't a conspiracy, more like a lack of foresight, but the rules were put in place in such a way that the racer had no...
It wasn't a conspiracy, more like a lack of foresight, but the rules were put in place in such a way that the racer had no choice but to make the transition.



Tiki wrote:
Do you know how many bikes are actually sold to the general public over racing. Racing is a budget that gets cut in hard times. General...
Do you know how many bikes are actually sold to the general public over racing. Racing is a budget that gets cut in hard times. General public makes that racing budget possible. Dont blame anyone but yourself. If you didnt buy a new two stroke you arent helping the cause. Cut and dry but to a CEO making a risk, it has to be a safe risk.
txmxer wrote:
The problem with what you are saying is simple. If the rules had not been what they were in 1998, would the four stroke revolution have...
The problem with what you are saying is simple. If the rules had not been what they were in 1998, would the four stroke revolution have ever of occurred?








When did you turn Pro and this became a "no choice" option for you? For 90+ % of people who ride and race 2 v. 4 is a fashion statement.

If I was on a limited budget, say $250 a month was all I had to ride, I'd gladly ride a two stroke and have fun. It sure would beat not riding because I couldn't afford it.
txmxer
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10/16/2009 12:42pm
Tiki wrote:
Do you know how many bikes are actually sold to the general public over racing. Racing is a budget that gets cut in hard times. General...
Do you know how many bikes are actually sold to the general public over racing. Racing is a budget that gets cut in hard times. General public makes that racing budget possible. Dont blame anyone but yourself. If you didnt buy a new two stroke you arent helping the cause. Cut and dry but to a CEO making a risk, it has to be a safe risk.
txmxer wrote:
The problem with what you are saying is simple. If the rules had not been what they were in 1998, would the four stroke revolution have...
The problem with what you are saying is simple. If the rules had not been what they were in 1998, would the four stroke revolution have ever of occurred?








WORCSRacer wrote:
When did you turn Pro and this became a "no choice" option for you? For 90+ % of people who ride and race 2 v. 4...
When did you turn Pro and this became a "no choice" option for you? For 90+ % of people who ride and race 2 v. 4 is a fashion statement.

If I was on a limited budget, say $250 a month was all I had to ride, I'd gladly ride a two stroke and have fun. It sure would beat not riding because I couldn't afford it.
I realize it's hard for some to comprehend, but it's irrelevant about whether someone is pro or not.

The public was given a choice between two options. They chose performance.

That performance gap was born out of biased rules. Thus, the notion there was a "choice" was false.

If the rules had been equal CC's, would there have been a 4 stroke revolution?
swizcore
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10/16/2009 12:52pm
Can someone enlighten me as to what "2T" means?
swizcore
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10/16/2009 12:56pm
Oh, well duh. That i o obviou .
Racer92
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10/16/2009 1:04pm
swizcore wrote:
Oh, well duh. That i o obviou .
No hit herlock !
G-man
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10/16/2009 1:06pm
blah blah blah blah......Laughing
txmxer
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10/16/2009 4:06pm
txmxer wrote:
I realize it's hard for some to comprehend, but it's irrelevant about whether someone is pro or not. The public was given a choice between two...
I realize it's hard for some to comprehend, but it's irrelevant about whether someone is pro or not.

The public was given a choice between two options. They chose performance.

That performance gap was born out of biased rules. Thus, the notion there was a "choice" was false.

If the rules had been equal CC's, would there have been a 4 stroke revolution?
guess that should be 4 Troke...and for posterity...


If the rules had been equal CC's, would there have been a 4 stroke revolution?
WhKnuckle
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10/16/2009 4:12pm
I have two CR500AFs, one YZ125, one YZ85 and one SX250 in my garage. Well, I do have a four stroke, but it's a Harley Davidson.

But assuming that massive numbers of people are going to go down and buy a YZ250 when they have to race it against 450s in most local races is silly. And any young rider is going to ride the bike the pros ride, which is to say the vast majority of the motocross demographic has no interest in riding a two stroke unless the pros ride them.

The factories know the score - make sure two strokes don't get raced in the Nationals and they'll die. They did it to the 500s and they did it to the 125, now all they have to kill is the 250T and they're off to Nirvana selling $8000 450s that the buyer puts a $1000 pipe on before he loads it in the truck.
Kinetic1
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10/16/2009 4:15pm
swizcore wrote:
Oh, well duh. That i o obviou .
Racer92 wrote:
No hit herlock !
The natural progression should have been No Tit Terlock.Laughing
mr_big
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AU
10/16/2009 5:07pm
I havent started another 2 stroke vs 4 stroke thread. Like everyone else, Im sick of reading endless chatter from people who talk the talk, but dont have the stones to walk.
Its simple, buy a 2 stroke, or STFU.
I enjoy my racing more than ever right now, that joy is bought from passing pole-smokers on new 450's with PC pipes, on my (underpowered???) two stroke.
And I dont hate 4 strokes, just MX7MX.
And did you clowns miss I'm a noob?

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