The 350? Its all ass backwards.

the_wood109
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the_wood109
Edited Date/Time 1/24/2012 9:58am
"The 350 won't start well on longer starts."

"The 350 is faster at the end of the moto." Looks like both Alessi and Cairoli faded where Desalle and Townley stayed strong at the end.

"The 350 won't climb big and steeps hills as well." I saw both Alessi and Cairoli pass going uphill.

ect, ect


Damn near every prediction looks like the opposite, and even if its not, there are already examples that discredit an analysis.

My guess?

Rider > Motorcycle
|
sbarrington314 5/30/2010 5:56pm
5/30/2010 5:56pm
i dont understand why people think those bikes arnt putting out the same horses as 450s.
stock vs stock, 450 i bet will pull the starts
the_wood109
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the_wood109 5/30/2010 6:01pm
5/30/2010 6:01pm
sbarrington314 wrote:
i dont understand why people think those bikes arnt putting out the same horses as 450s.
stock vs stock, 450 i bet will pull the starts
If that is the case (which I'm sure it is,) then what advantage (or disadvantage) could it have?

Essentially it's

350 = 450

The rider is greater than the bike, so what does it matter? You could put a linkage on a 450 and save a bunch of development costs.

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Sunhouse
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Sunhouse 5/30/2010 6:04pm
5/30/2010 6:04pm
This has all been sorted out since the Bulgarian GP, but yes, I agree. The bike seems to be everything a 450 is and more/less depending on how you look at it. I think the bike is going to sell really well, but even better as Honda makes one. A bike is rearily approved until Honda makes it....
Bulldog Racing 5/30/2010 6:08pm
5/30/2010 6:08pm
I remember about 15 years ago when me and my buddies all raced in the A class. We all had new badass semi-factory bikes. We were talking trash to the manager of our team. He was about 10 years older than us, and jumped on a 5 year old turd of a bike and kicked our buts!!!!!!!!

It's all about the rider!!!!!
mx317
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mx317 5/30/2010 6:10pm
5/30/2010 6:10pm
sbarrington314 wrote:
i dont understand why people think those bikes arnt putting out the same horses as 450s.
stock vs stock, 450 i bet will pull the starts
the_wood109 wrote:
If that is the case (which I'm sure it is,) then what advantage (or disadvantage) could it have? Essentially it's 350 = 450 The rider is...
If that is the case (which I'm sure it is,) then what advantage (or disadvantage) could it have?

Essentially it's

350 = 450

The rider is greater than the bike, so what does it matter? You could put a linkage on a 450 and save a bunch of development costs.
They put the linkage on the new 450 for 2011.
CASH476
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CASH476 5/30/2010 6:11pm
5/30/2010 6:11pm
You are all wrong! Clearly the linkage suspension is the problem!!
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 5/30/2010 6:32pm
5/30/2010 6:32pm
It's a 90% rider sport. I personally think the 350 is going to be THE greatest bike for amateurs, but I keep thinking it's giving a lot away on the top levels of the sport. Heck, James Stewart won a national championship on a 125 with unleaded gas in '04, and that thing was probably giving up 10 horsepower to the rest of the pack. But if you hold it wide open long enough, it'd get going pretty fast eventually.
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Outsider 5/30/2010 6:35pm
5/30/2010 6:35pm
The 350 didn't give away anything, in fact it seemed to put the power to the ground better on the hills than the 450's.

Freaking Vital keyboard experts have all the answers. Unsure
Crush
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Crush 5/30/2010 7:03pm
5/30/2010 7:03pm
Pretty sure those bikes are putting out big horsepower... It's not like the 450 guys are trying to get 70hp out of em... Except maybe KW and Davi...
Team Euro
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Team Euro 5/30/2010 11:08pm
5/30/2010 11:08pm
The old saying that motox is 95% rider and 5% machine still is true today....The faster you go down the straights the sooner and harder you brake for the corners, Americans have a fixation with a "better" bike and "more power". A good old school 125 rider will give a power hungry lesser talent 450 rider a riding lesson any day, WhKnuckle eluded to that theme also. Bikes have always been a excuse for a lesser talent
mx836
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mx836 5/30/2010 11:11pm
5/30/2010 11:11pm
Hey look, another post where you know what the Americans are thinking. Where are you from again?
Team Euro
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Team Euro 5/30/2010 11:28pm
5/30/2010 11:28pm Edited Date/Time 5/30/2010 11:35pm
Location? I don`t need no stinking location, but I`m usually in Sweden or Norway, or Belgium or south of Spain or Holland or SoCal in the off season and a whole lot of other places during the season. Sorry I forgot Denmark and Germany and a few trips to Italy for negotiations,off season of course. oops..also a lot of time in Northern Cal, SF to be exact but that`s if the North/South boundary if still around the Bakersfield area, but no matter. and where might you hail from?
WideOpen
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WideOpen 5/31/2010 4:00am
5/31/2010 4:00am
WhKnuckle wrote:
It's a 90% rider sport. I personally think the 350 is going to be THE greatest bike for amateurs, but I keep thinking it's giving a...
It's a 90% rider sport. I personally think the 350 is going to be THE greatest bike for amateurs, but I keep thinking it's giving a lot away on the top levels of the sport. Heck, James Stewart won a national championship on a 125 with unleaded gas in '04, and that thing was probably giving up 10 horsepower to the rest of the pack. But if you hold it wide open long enough, it'd get going pretty fast eventually.
AC is winning the points battle in his series and Mike is second in points and has a moto win with his 350. Its more than a GREAT Amateur bike. Its a proven winner at the highest level. It also proves the 450's power does not mean shit. 100% rider 0 % bike.

The 350 is the wave of the future. Every OEM will have one in 3 yrs.
WideOpen
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WideOpen 5/31/2010 4:19am
5/31/2010 4:19am
TheCynic82 wrote:
[img]http://www.racerxonline.com/UserFiles/image/Report-USGP-Cox-2010-004.JPG[/img]
Great pic.

Chad Reed needs to take Notice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reeds hopes and prayers of the longer starts hurting Mike are shot.
the_wood109
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the_wood109 5/31/2010 4:39am
5/31/2010 4:39am
TheCynic82 wrote:
[img]http://www.racerxonline.com/UserFiles/image/Report-USGP-Cox-2010-004.JPG[/img]
wow that picture says it all!

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Crush
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Crush 5/31/2010 5:08am
5/31/2010 5:08am
TheCynic82 wrote:
[img]http://www.racerxonline.com/UserFiles/image/Report-USGP-Cox-2010-004.JPG[/img]
WideOpen wrote:
Great pic.

Chad Reed needs to take Notice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reeds hopes and prayers of the longer starts hurting Mike are shot.
Difference is Mike has proven he can't win from anywhere but the front...

Chad will win the outdoors...
John Birch
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John Birch 5/31/2010 5:49am
5/31/2010 5:49am
Bulldog Racing wrote:
I remember about 15 years ago when me and my buddies all raced in the A class. We all had new badass semi-factory bikes. We were...
I remember about 15 years ago when me and my buddies all raced in the A class. We all had new badass semi-factory bikes. We were talking trash to the manager of our team. He was about 10 years older than us, and jumped on a 5 year old turd of a bike and kicked our buts!!!!!!!!

It's all about the rider!!!!!
semi-factory bikes? Sweet Jesus. Please enlighten us on the factory bikes a non name from the mid west was privy too back in 1995.
Ashleymx
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Ashleymx 5/31/2010 5:50am
5/31/2010 5:50am
That looks impressive but Id guess you could take the best two riders on the day (for example Alessi and Cairoli) stick them on any other bike behind them or even a 250f (assume they had a chance to get familiar with the bike) and the holeshots and even race results would be the same. Yes 95% rider!
WideOpen
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WideOpen 5/31/2010 6:17am
5/31/2010 6:17am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 11:15pm
TheCynic82 wrote:
[img]http://www.racerxonline.com/UserFiles/image/Report-USGP-Cox-2010-004.JPG[/img]
WideOpen wrote:
Great pic.

Chad Reed needs to take Notice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reeds hopes and prayers of the longer starts hurting Mike are shot.
Crush wrote:
Difference is Mike has proven he can't win from anywhere but the front...

Chad will win the outdoors...
We will see. Reed has won every one of his titles after the best have been hurt. A credit to Reed for having the recipe and luck to stay healthy.

As far as Mike not being able to win from the back the truth is he has never had to race from there. He is always out front. So in truth Mike can't win from the front. Get your facts straight. BUT!!!! IMO, Mike will beat Chad over the long haul and Stewart will show Alessi and Reed that they are not as fast as they think they are when he is on the gate.
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 5/31/2010 6:26am
5/31/2010 6:26am
Getting starts is more desire and technique than horsepower - a guy with a little less horsepower who will hold it WFO longer will beat the guy with more power out of the turn. Also, setting up the bike specifically for the start is a big help. Heck, James Stewart did good on starts on a KX250 in '05. The big disadvantage to the 350 is that you can't leave it in a high gear and rip out of a corner. It takes some adjustments from the rider and it's going to be more demanding to ride. But for an amateur, it'll be less intimidating and more confidence inspiring, and confidence is everything.
ando
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ando 5/31/2010 6:26am
5/31/2010 6:26am
TheCynic82 wrote:
[img]http://www.racerxonline.com/UserFiles/image/Report-USGP-Cox-2010-004.JPG[/img]
WideOpen wrote:
Great pic.

Chad Reed needs to take Notice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reeds hopes and prayers of the longer starts hurting Mike are shot.
I don't think Reed's starts are going to be as crucial as they are in SX.

He's proven he knows how to come through the pack, and Reedy isn't one to panic if he's in say, sixth, with 15 mins to go. 35 min motos make a difference, and you KNOW Reed is going to finish stronger than just about anybody on the paddock.

For Reed:

Holeshot = win

Top five start = at least podium, better then even chance for the win

Top ten start = almost guaranteed podium.
ando
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ando 5/31/2010 6:28am
5/31/2010 6:28am
WhKnuckle wrote:
Getting starts is more desire and technique than horsepower - a guy with a little less horsepower who will hold it WFO longer will beat the...
Getting starts is more desire and technique than horsepower - a guy with a little less horsepower who will hold it WFO longer will beat the guy with more power out of the turn. Also, setting up the bike specifically for the start is a big help. Heck, James Stewart did good on starts on a KX250 in '05. The big disadvantage to the 350 is that you can't leave it in a high gear and rip out of a corner. It takes some adjustments from the rider and it's going to be more demanding to ride. But for an amateur, it'll be less intimidating and more confidence inspiring, and confidence is everything.
The big disadvantage to the 350 is that you can't leave it in a high gear and rip out of a corner

I think Cairoli disproved that theory yesterday.
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 5/31/2010 6:30am
5/31/2010 6:30am
WhKnuckle wrote:
Getting starts is more desire and technique than horsepower - a guy with a little less horsepower who will hold it WFO longer will beat the...
Getting starts is more desire and technique than horsepower - a guy with a little less horsepower who will hold it WFO longer will beat the guy with more power out of the turn. Also, setting up the bike specifically for the start is a big help. Heck, James Stewart did good on starts on a KX250 in '05. The big disadvantage to the 350 is that you can't leave it in a high gear and rip out of a corner. It takes some adjustments from the rider and it's going to be more demanding to ride. But for an amateur, it'll be less intimidating and more confidence inspiring, and confidence is everything.
ando wrote:
[b]The big disadvantage to the 350 is that you can't leave it in a high gear and rip out of a corner[/b] I think Cairoli disproved...
The big disadvantage to the 350 is that you can't leave it in a high gear and rip out of a corner

I think Cairoli disproved that theory yesterday.
Desalle turned inside him and just motored away going up a hill and Cairoli couldn't do a thing about it.
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jmar 5/31/2010 6:48am
5/31/2010 6:48am
TheCynic82 wrote:
[img]http://www.racerxonline.com/UserFiles/image/Report-USGP-Cox-2010-004.JPG[/img]
It's hard to tell from the angle of this photo, but it appears that KTMs are in third and forth on this start also. Were those bikes 350s also?
dietzl41
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dietzl41 5/31/2010 6:52am
5/31/2010 6:52am
What are you guys talking about, they made a 350 two stroke to run with 450s now?
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CR250Rider 5/31/2010 7:02am
5/31/2010 7:02am
Sunhouse wrote:
This has all been sorted out since the Bulgarian GP, but yes, I agree. The bike seems to be everything a 450 is and more/less depending...
This has all been sorted out since the Bulgarian GP, but yes, I agree. The bike seems to be everything a 450 is and more/less depending on how you look at it. I think the bike is going to sell really well, but even better as Honda makes one. A bike is rearily approved until Honda makes it....
And Honda is a very proud, stubborn company.

What are the chances they will even build one?
WideOpen
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WideOpen 5/31/2010 7:23am
5/31/2010 7:23am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 11:15pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
Getting starts is more desire and technique than horsepower - a guy with a little less horsepower who will hold it WFO longer will beat the...
Getting starts is more desire and technique than horsepower - a guy with a little less horsepower who will hold it WFO longer will beat the guy with more power out of the turn. Also, setting up the bike specifically for the start is a big help. Heck, James Stewart did good on starts on a KX250 in '05. The big disadvantage to the 350 is that you can't leave it in a high gear and rip out of a corner. It takes some adjustments from the rider and it's going to be more demanding to ride. But for an amateur, it'll be less intimidating and more confidence inspiring, and confidence is everything.
Dude, Your hate for this bike and push to call it a GREAT Amateur bike is crazy talk. The bike can be ridden in any gear. Fast guys corner in third on a 250f and in second on a 450. The 350 is a a better corner bike on 99% of the track.

If KTM could ever be lucky enough to sign Stewart he will kick the shit out of these guys even worse on a 350. He will not have to shut this bike off in the corners. The point and shoot days of the 450 are going to come to a end in the next 3 yrs. The 450 sucks plain and simple and the 250F lap times are proof that more power does not mean faster lap times.

Post a reply to: The 350? Its all ass backwards.