Thad Duvall Stripped of win at John Penton GNCC (UPDATED WITH VIDEO)

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7/9/2017 5:12 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/9/2017 5:16 PM

Russell had mechanical issues finished way off the pace in 3rd. Duvall won and was docked for taking a line pointed out by spectator that was being used by other xc1 and xc2 guys along with other amateur riders. They said he was outside the allowed limit and was docked positions. He stole the points lead only to lose it 5 minutes later. It's about to be a shit show in that series. He definitely got hosed

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7/9/2017 5:22 PM

Total crap, I wasn't there and don't know the details but I've been around Gncc since 96' and have NEVER heard this rule inforced unless the situation was obvious track cutting. Did they take a damn tape measure out there and measure the width of the course? If banners are not in a particular section noone ever thinks about how far off the main line...

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7/9/2017 5:30 PM

I'm not sure on how they went about it. I'm sure there was a protest by a KTM guy at that section and maybe a official was near by. Who knows. His lap times didn't change at all either. Very very shady. I would be interested to see what DC thoughts were Photo

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7/9/2017 5:37 PM

He woulda won regardless, dumb penalty

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7/9/2017 5:49 PM

They should just name Russell eternal gncc champion.....gonna hand him the title one way or the other. Second time they been trying to hand it to him this year. Then they wonder why numbers drop. Full gas and Jday will soon trump gncc

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7/9/2017 6:10 PM

HardTaco wrote:

They should just name Russell eternal gncc champion.....gonna hand him the title one way or the other. Second time they been trying to hand it to him this year. Then they wonder why numbers drop. Full gas and Jday will soon trump gncc

I've said for a while now that if those two series combined they would be a threat to dominate the east coast

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7/9/2017 6:13 PM

I don't see GNCCs getting smaller just think it calls for a overhaul with officiating and rule book.

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7/9/2017 6:42 PM

Photo

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7/9/2017 7:09 PM

wide open wally wrote:

Russell had mechanical issues finished way off the pace in 3rd. Duvall won and was docked for taking a line pointed out by spectator that was being used by other xc1 and xc2 guys along with other amateur riders. They said he was outside the allowed limit and was docked positions. He stole the points lead only to lose it 5 minutes later. It's about to be a shit show in that series. He definitely got hosed

If he was out of bounds....we'll....he was out of bounds!

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7/9/2017 7:43 PM

What is the point system for GNCC?

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

7/9/2017 7:49 PM

Did they dock him a position and points?

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7/9/2017 7:57 PM

The problem is the rule. It should be clear cut what the penalty is for breaking the rule. It should not be left up to the track boss.

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7/9/2017 8:30 PM

woodsryder wrote:

The problem is the rule. It should be clear cut what the penalty is for breaking the rule. It should not be left up to the track boss.

Exactly, and who is in charge of measuring the distance. When a new line forms everyone starts taking it until an official puts a banner up to block it. As far a the penalty, it looks like they docked him more points then just one position.

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7/9/2017 8:35 PM

I wonder if we'd see Factoy KTM protesting Factory Husky in moto.

Interesting dynamic.


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7/9/2017 8:59 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/9/2017 9:01 PM

the rule states anything 25' from the marked trail. that rule gets broken probably a hundred thousand times per race, at least it has every gncc Ive raced the past 10 years.

I know nobody cares about quads, but the same thing happened to Chris Borich when he was battling bill ballance for his first pro championship. a spectator pointed him at a line, chris took (as well as many others) and chris won the race, bill protested after and subsequently chris lost the title due to being docked that race.

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7/9/2017 9:25 PM

Look at Russell's family tree and it will be obvious why the penalty was so harsh....it ain't rocket surgery. This is the race that was "too muddy" for a gncc so they rescheduled it to this weekend on top of Full Gas....and take a guess who the better mud rider is. With all the shenanigans going on in this series I'll be sure to spend my money on my local events and the Full Gas that come near me.

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7/10/2017 4:57 AM

Wow, someone is a sore loser! Like 4ft would make more than a marginal difference in a 3hr race. Thad's a good guy, and I'm certainly pulling for him to win!

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7/10/2017 5:26 AM

I think the Full Gas concept is so cool that it hopefully will take off everywhere. Nothing in PA at the moment, but we have a couple of strong H.S. series here now. I see how that type of race will bring in Enduro and H.S. racers as well as older MX'ers looking for grass track type racing.

Any electric bikes racing the GNCC's?

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7/10/2017 5:26 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/10/2017 5:29 AM

BobPA wrote:

What is the point system for GNCC?

He was docked position from 1st to second and that was 5 points. And for how tight this series has been that will be costly. Thad lost out on a 9 point swing on Russell, instead he only gained 4.
Points for position
1 – 30 5 – 16 9 – 12 13 – 8 17 – 4
2 – 25 6 – 15 10 – 11 14 – 7 18 – 3
3 – 21 7 – 14 11 – 10 15 – 6 19 – 2
4 – 18 8 – 13

And also a few years ago there was a problem with Borich and Fowler cutting course, for the lack of a better term, on a go pro cam by McGill. They dismissed it told McGill not to upload it to social media or the web. I guess it was a shit show

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7/10/2017 5:34 AM

I have been at torn up sections at GNCC's and watched the riders crew get a different line approved by a GNCC official BEFORE sending riders that way.

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7/10/2017 5:50 AM

woodsryder wrote:

The problem is the rule. It should be clear cut what the penalty is for breaking the rule. It should not be left up to the track boss.

AMA Racing Rulebook
Off-Road 2.3
C. Race Rules
11. A rider leaving the course must re-enter at the same
point or at the first point where he can safely do so
without interfering with other riders and without gaining
an advantage. Failure to do so will result in the rider
being penalized a minimum of one finishing position for
that event.

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7/10/2017 6:07 AM

woodsryder wrote:

The problem is the rule. It should be clear cut what the penalty is for breaking the rule. It should not be left up to the track boss.

Erek_Kudla wrote:

AMA Racing Rulebook
Off-Road 2.3
C. Race Rules
11. A rider leaving the course must re-enter at the same
point or at the first point where he can safely do so
without interfering with other riders and without gaining
an advantage. Failure to do so will result in the rider
being penalized a minimum of one finishing position for
that event.

I think the rule they are saying he violated is stated below:
I. ON TRACK REGULATIONS:
1. Riders must remain on the marked course. The marked course is within 25 feet of race arrows. However, riders must stay within the confines of the following markers: double arrows posted on both sides of the trail, ribbons, signs, stakes, hay bales, barrels, motocross track, grass track, etc..

I dont think the section was a bottleneck, however this is the rule for those situations:
2. Riders encountering a traffic jam or bottleneck may go more than 25 feet off the course to get around the bottleneck only. However, the rider must re-enter the course as soon as possible, and upon approaching this section the next lap, must ride the original arrowed section if the track is clear. If the original marking devices are knocked down, the rider must stay on the original marked course. A "bottleneck" is a section of the track that becomes impassable for any reason, with the exception of checkpoints.

There is no mention of the penalty to be enforced if a rider were to violate either of the above.

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7/10/2017 6:13 AM

woodsryder wrote:

The problem is the rule. It should be clear cut what the penalty is for breaking the rule. It should not be left up to the track boss.

Erek_Kudla wrote:

AMA Racing Rulebook
Off-Road 2.3
C. Race Rules
11. A rider leaving the course must re-enter at the same
point or at the first point where he can safely do so
without interfering with other riders and without gaining
an advantage. Failure to do so will result in the rider
being penalized a minimum of one finishing position for
that event.

Roostermx58 wrote:

I think the rule they are saying he violated is stated below:
I. ON TRACK REGULATIONS:
1. Riders must remain on the marked course. The marked course is within 25 feet of race arrows. However, riders must stay within the confines of the following markers: double arrows posted on both sides of the trail, ribbons, signs, stakes, hay bales, barrels, motocross track, grass track, etc..

I dont think the section was a bottleneck, however this is the rule for those situations:
2. Riders encountering a traffic jam or bottleneck may go more than 25 feet off the course to get around the bottleneck only. However, the rider must re-enter the course as soon as possible, and upon approaching this section the next lap, must ride the original arrowed section if the track is clear. If the original marking devices are knocked down, the rider must stay on the original marked course. A "bottleneck" is a section of the track that becomes impassable for any reason, with the exception of checkpoints.

There is no mention of the penalty to be enforced if a rider were to violate either of the above.

I think you don't know who Erek Kudla is or you wouldn't be arguing with him.

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7/10/2017 6:13 AM

Wish we had a picture of the section. Track markings can be a bit ambiguous on cross country courses.

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7/10/2017 6:30 AM

Erek_Kudla wrote:

AMA Racing Rulebook
Off-Road 2.3
C. Race Rules
11. A rider leaving the course must re-enter at the same
point or at the first point where he can safely do so
without interfering with other riders and without gaining
an advantage. Failure to do so will result in the rider
being penalized a minimum of one finishing position for
that event.

Roostermx58 wrote:

I think the rule they are saying he violated is stated below:
I. ON TRACK REGULATIONS:
1. Riders must remain on the marked course. The marked course is within 25 feet of race arrows. However, riders must stay within the confines of the following markers: double arrows posted on both sides of the trail, ribbons, signs, stakes, hay bales, barrels, motocross track, grass track, etc..

I dont think the section was a bottleneck, however this is the rule for those situations:
2. Riders encountering a traffic jam or bottleneck may go more than 25 feet off the course to get around the bottleneck only. However, the rider must re-enter the course as soon as possible, and upon approaching this section the next lap, must ride the original arrowed section if the track is clear. If the original marking devices are knocked down, the rider must stay on the original marked course. A "bottleneck" is a section of the track that becomes impassable for any reason, with the exception of checkpoints.

There is no mention of the penalty to be enforced if a rider were to violate either of the above.

bartziokas123 wrote:

I think you don't know who Erek Kudla is or you wouldn't be arguing with him.

LOL. You can't be serious.

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Shout out to: Fly Racing, X Brand Goggles, Kenda Tire, Nuetech Nitromousse, ProTune Suspension, Motool, Sunstar Sprockets, and Rehmerts Kawasaki KTM

7/10/2017 6:42 AM

BobPA wrote:

What is the point system for GNCC?

wide open wally wrote:

He was docked position from 1st to second and that was 5 points. And for how tight this series has been that will be costly. Thad lost out on a 9 point swing on Russell, instead he only gained 4.
Points for position
1 – 30 5 – 16 9 – 12 13 – 8 17 – 4
2 – 25 6 – 15 10 – 11 14 – 7 18 – 3
3 – 21 7 – 14 11 – 10 15 – 6 19 – 2
4 – 18 8 – 13

And also a few years ago there was a problem with Borich and Fowler cutting course, for the lack of a better term, on a go pro cam by McGill. They dismissed it told McGill not to upload it to social media or the web. I guess it was a shit show

Thanks. I have ran a few of them, but never chased the whole series.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

7/10/2017 6:59 AM

Were the other riders taking the same line docked as well? Or was it a case of "we only saw Thad take the line"?

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7/10/2017 7:28 AM

mndirtrider wrote:

Were the other riders taking the same line docked as well? Or was it a case of "we only saw Thad take the line"?

Sounds like only Thad. Such bull shit

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7/10/2017 7:28 AM

mndirtrider wrote:

Were the other riders taking the same line docked as well? Or was it a case of "we only saw Thad take the line"?

From the people I know that were there at that section they said multiple pro riders took it and no one cared until Thad took that line when he was 5-10 seconds behind Russell. He made the pass just past that section. So the argument was that line gave him a time advantage on Russell and that was the only reason he passed him. With Russell having issues I think it was only a matter of time before Thad passed him back

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7/10/2017 7:34 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/10/2017 7:37 AM

woodsryder wrote:

The problem is the rule. It should be clear cut what the penalty is for breaking the rule. It should not be left up to the track boss.

Erek_Kudla wrote:

AMA Racing Rulebook
Off-Road 2.3
C. Race Rules
11. A rider leaving the course must re-enter at the same
point or at the first point where he can safely do so
without interfering with other riders and without gaining
an advantage. Failure to do so will result in the rider
being penalized a minimum of one finishing position for
that event.

Roostermx58 wrote:

I think the rule they are saying he violated is stated below:
I. ON TRACK REGULATIONS:
1. Riders must remain on the marked course. The marked course is within 25 feet of race arrows. However, riders must stay within the confines of the following markers: double arrows posted on both sides of the trail, ribbons, signs, stakes, hay bales, barrels, motocross track, grass track, etc..

I dont think the section was a bottleneck, however this is the rule for those situations:
2. Riders encountering a traffic jam or bottleneck may go more than 25 feet off the course to get around the bottleneck only. However, the rider must re-enter the course as soon as possible, and upon approaching this section the next lap, must ride the original arrowed section if the track is clear. If the original marking devices are knocked down, the rider must stay on the original marked course. A "bottleneck" is a section of the track that becomes impassable for any reason, with the exception of checkpoints.

There is no mention of the penalty to be enforced if a rider were to violate either of the above.

The GNCC Supplements describe, in detail, what constitutes being off course. The AMA rules describe the minimum penalty.

There were other riders penalized the same way in the same race. This is also the precedence that has been set in past infractions at GNCC as described above by others. They take what you've gained, whether it be 1 position or 10 seconds, plus a position.

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