Technological Innovation Fail? '87 CR500 vs. '21 CRF450 by Ryan Hughes

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7/22/2021 10:19 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/22/2021 10:21 AM


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7/22/2021 10:34 AM

ON that particular test track an 85 would have smoked either bike. Give us a real comparison!

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7/22/2021 10:46 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/22/2021 10:47 AM

stone881 wrote:

ON that particular test track an 85 would have smoked either bike. Give us a real comparison!

No kidding... pretty sure I would smoke both those bikes on a KX100.

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7/22/2021 10:50 AM

Kenny Roberts could show up with a bike from the '70s and show us MXers how slow we are on that track; so, what's the point?
grin

Btw, the fastest I'd go on the track is probably on my 2021 CRF450X. No shit.

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Nobody ever told me, I found out for myself. You've got to believe in foolish miracles. It's not how you play the game, it's if you win or lose. You can choose. Don't confuse. Win or lose. It's up to you!

7/22/2021 11:10 AM

If you didn’t ride 500s back then you wont get it now. Racing dirt bikes on natural terrain kicks ass. Sad its now lost on todays riders. Super safe, Super fun.

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7/22/2021 11:50 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/22/2021 6:29 PM

I just was watching this vid where AJ Cantanzaro rode a '21 CRF450 back-to-back with a '95 Cr250 (ripping damn good on both), and aside from the primitive brakes, he picked the old 250 as his winner of the two for rideability:"I could totally ride this as a daily driver every day."

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7/22/2021 11:55 AM

He would have been faster on KTM SX65 on that kids track.

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7/22/2021 12:09 PM

Well, both bikes were on the same track so.....

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7/22/2021 12:17 PM

I would love to see the time difference between a 1980 bike and a 1990 bike vs the time difference between 2010 bike and a 2020 bike. My intuition says that 80-90 was a much bigger jump than modern. Technological innovation is almost stagnant with incremental (at best) changes that have little to no improvement on actual performance.

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7/22/2021 12:28 PM

kage173 wrote:

I would love to see the time difference between a 1980 bike and a 1990 bike vs the time difference between 2010 bike and a ...more

1980 to 1990 is the same time difference as 2010 to 2020 tongue

I bet you're right though.

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7/22/2021 12:41 PM

That’s an 89 with the upside down forks. The 87 is similar, but is the orange red plastic and has conventional forks. See photo for reference.

And it sounds like the clutch is slipping. Too much over rev. Photo


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7/22/2021 12:47 PM

KirkChandler wrote:

That’s an 89 with the upside down forks. The 87 is similar, but is the orange red plastic and has conventional forks. See ...more

Yep, wrong bike. And it needs to be ridden a gear higher.

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7/22/2021 12:49 PM

SCC wrote:

If you didn’t ride 500s back then you wont get it now. Racing dirt bikes on natural terrain kicks ass. Sad its now lost on ...more

Well said SCC. If you never rode them you just don't get it. Just think if the technology and innovation that has been put into 4-strokes were put into the 2-stroke. It would be a different ball game. My first "500" was a 74 1/2 Mikkola replica Husky. Power band of a light switch but man it had the horses.

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7/22/2021 1:13 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/23/2021 12:51 AM

I have 86 and 87 CRs and do lap times comparisons with my modern bikes from time to time. Last year I turned a quicker lap at Daytona vintage on my 87 125 than my KTM 450. Time comparisons are very dependent on tracks, but on something tame and smooth, the older bikes always surprise me in how close they are!

&t=521s
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7/22/2021 1:26 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/22/2021 1:32 PM

KirkChandler wrote:

That’s an 89 with the upside down forks. The 87 is similar, but is the orange red plastic and has conventional forks. See ...more

From the very little I can see, it doesn't have a lowboy pipe. If I had to guess, I'd go with an 87 with a newer fork and red seat cover or an 88, last year for the up pipe.

Still don't get the point, anyway. Oh well, it's Ryan Hugues.

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7/22/2021 1:30 PM

Drawing any meaningful conclusions from that track is a joke lol

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7/22/2021 1:36 PM

No, definitely not an 89 pipe.
Photo

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7/22/2021 2:40 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/22/2021 2:43 PM

500 is still a strong bike, though maybe not very practical (I keep losing parts from all the vibrations lol). I ride a KX500 as my main bike and I generally don’t see myself being at that much of a disadvantage from 450s, but it’s really more about the modern upgrades you add to the bike. I can’t imagine riding that thing on the stock brakes/clutch/suspension or even carb. The base package has aged really well in my opinion, in kind of a 2005 YZ250 kind of way.

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7/22/2021 5:37 PM

It's almost like the bike is the smallest part of the equation.

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7/22/2021 7:13 PM

That’s the start line of a track we have called wildwood. Ryan did a training an unfortunately we had storming rain so the main track, kids track and turn track was super
Muddy. They just made a little turn track on the start line because it’s a hill and was dry.

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7/22/2021 7:19 PM

ZOBITO wrote:

From the very little I can see, it doesn't have a lowboy pipe. If I had to guess, I'd go with an 87 with a newer fork and red ...more

Hmmm, maybe it’s an 88 with upside down forks added. Because my 88 still has conventional forks.

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7/22/2021 8:54 PM

90% rider truth and some bikes got worse over time. 09 yz 450and 08 crf 450 vs the 21version, I know the older version were about 10lbs lighter.

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7/22/2021 9:07 PM

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

7/23/2021 3:36 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/23/2021 3:37 AM

KirkChandler wrote:

Hmmm, maybe it’s an 88 with upside down forks added. Because my 88 still has conventional forks.

Absolutely. Never been an up pipe/USD forks stock combo.

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7/23/2021 6:26 AM

We ran a TM300 with a CR500 motor in it in Supermoto in 2019, we got within 0.5sec of the best time we did on put very well sorted 2018 450 Husky , on the only track we could use as a comparison.

Just like with a modern 450, the clever people work on getting them easy to ride , whereas others just want to make them faster , so they cant hang onto them.

And remember we were riding those 500's on proper tracks, not the overgroomed and jump and rutfests we have today , tracks that had bumps that had birthday parties.

I raced a KX500 at Unadilla in 19, and it was far easier to ride round there when it wasnt ripped, than it would have been back at my local track 30 years before.

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7/23/2021 6:46 AM

Undersprung wrote:

It's almost like the bike is the smallest part of the equation.

Excellent point.

Here is an old article where the author races a RM-Z450 against Ryan Hughes who rides four different machines, all the way down to a DRZ125.

https://www.dirtrider.com/tests/141_0605_beating_dirt_bike_pro/

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7/23/2021 7:10 AM

Bummer...

I'll take KX112 for $500 Alex.

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7/23/2021 7:49 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/23/2021 7:50 AM

kage173 wrote:

I would love to see the time difference between a 1980 bike and a 1990 bike vs the time difference between 2010 bike and a ...more

USA wrote:

1980 to 1990 is the same time difference as 2010 to 2020 tongue

I bet you're right though.

Lap time difference isn't the same though.

Dirt Bike magazine did that back in 1996, so we're talking about bikes before 4-strokes took over.

Dirt Bike MX of Ages

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7/23/2021 12:52 PM

Undersprung wrote:

It's almost like the bike is the smallest part of the equation.

Maverick313 wrote:

Excellent point.

Here is an old article where the author races a RM-Z450 against Ryan Hughes who rides four different ...more

this article is one of the greats

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7/23/2021 7:06 PM

mark_swart wrote:

I have 86 and 87 CRs and do lap times comparisons with my modern bikes from time to time. Last year I turned a quicker lap at ...more

Great video, you explain everything very clearly and your COOL as hell. I saw your 04 cr125 vid, it’s the best 04 cr125 video out there. My 1st bike was a 87 cr125 Grest bike bought it with a NSR port job. Broke the shock riding whoops, installed a WP shock it worked great.

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