Technological Innovation Fail? '87 CR500 vs. '21 CRF450 by Ryan Hughes

Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
7/22/2021 10:19am Edited Date/Time 8/4/2021 10:51am

5
6
|
stone881
Posts
866
Joined
12/26/2014
Location
Fruita, CO US
7/22/2021 10:34am
ON that particular test track an 85 would have smoked either bike. Give us a real comparison!
6
3
7/22/2021 10:46am Edited Date/Time 7/22/2021 10:47am
stone881 wrote:
ON that particular test track an 85 would have smoked either bike. Give us a real comparison!
No kidding... pretty sure I would smoke both those bikes on a KX100.
2
2
TeamGreen
Posts
28657
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
7/22/2021 10:50am
Kenny Roberts could show up with a bike from the '70s and show us MXers how slow we are on that track; so, what's the point?
Grinning

Btw, the fastest I'd go on the track is probably on my 2021 CRF450X. No shit.
3
SCC
Posts
387
Joined
10/16/2019
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
7/22/2021 11:10am
If you didn’t ride 500s back then you wont get it now. Racing dirt bikes on natural terrain kicks ass. Sad its now lost on todays riders. Super safe, Super fun.
1

The Shop

7/22/2021 11:50am Edited Date/Time 7/22/2021 6:29pm
I just was watching this vid where AJ Cantanzaro rode a '21 CRF450 back-to-back with a '95 Cr250 (ripping damn good on both), and aside from the primitive brakes, he picked the old 250 as his winner of the two for rideability:"I could totally ride this as a daily driver every day."

9
2
tek14
Posts
4572
Joined
1/26/2014
Location
Vantaa FI
7/22/2021 11:55am
He would have been faster on KTM SX65 on that kids track.
5
ktmusa
Posts
55
Joined
5/28/2021
Location
S.H., FL US
7/22/2021 12:09pm
Well, both bikes were on the same track so.....
6
3
kage173
Posts
2122
Joined
11/27/2015
Location
TX US
7/22/2021 12:17pm
I would love to see the time difference between a 1980 bike and a 1990 bike vs the time difference between 2010 bike and a 2020 bike. My intuition says that 80-90 was a much bigger jump than modern. Technological innovation is almost stagnant with incremental (at best) changes that have little to no improvement on actual performance.
1
USA
Posts
1973
Joined
9/4/2016
Location
Richmond, TX US
Fantasy
545th
7/22/2021 12:28pm
kage173 wrote:
I would love to see the time difference between a 1980 bike and a 1990 bike vs the time difference between 2010 bike and a 2020...
I would love to see the time difference between a 1980 bike and a 1990 bike vs the time difference between 2010 bike and a 2020 bike. My intuition says that 80-90 was a much bigger jump than modern. Technological innovation is almost stagnant with incremental (at best) changes that have little to no improvement on actual performance.
1980 to 1990 is the same time difference as 2010 to 2020 Tongue

I bet you're right though.
KirkChandler
Posts
1667
Joined
7/31/2015
Location
Oceanside, CA US
Fantasy
357th
7/22/2021 12:41pm
That’s an 89 with the upside down forks. The 87 is similar, but is the orange red plastic and has conventional forks. See photo for reference.

And it sounds like the clutch is slipping. Too much over rev.


Johnny Depp
Posts
6438
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX US
7/22/2021 12:47pm
That’s an 89 with the upside down forks. The 87 is similar, but is the orange red plastic and has conventional forks. See photo for reference...
That’s an 89 with the upside down forks. The 87 is similar, but is the orange red plastic and has conventional forks. See photo for reference.

And it sounds like the clutch is slipping. Too much over rev.


Yep, wrong bike. And it needs to be ridden a gear higher.
1
ktmusa
Posts
55
Joined
5/28/2021
Location
S.H., FL US
7/22/2021 12:49pm
SCC wrote:
If you didn’t ride 500s back then you wont get it now. Racing dirt bikes on natural terrain kicks ass. Sad its now lost on todays...
If you didn’t ride 500s back then you wont get it now. Racing dirt bikes on natural terrain kicks ass. Sad its now lost on todays riders. Super safe, Super fun.
Well said SCC. If you never rode them you just don't get it. Just think if the technology and innovation that has been put into 4-strokes were put into the 2-stroke. It would be a different ball game. My first "500" was a 74 1/2 Mikkola replica Husky. Power band of a light switch but man it had the horses.
6
2
mark_swart
Posts
2398
Joined
11/2/2011
Location
Chapin, SC US
7/22/2021 1:13pm Edited Date/Time 7/23/2021 12:51am
I have 86 and 87 CRs and do lap times comparisons with my modern bikes from time to time. Last year I turned a quicker lap at Daytona vintage on my 87 125 than my KTM 450. Time comparisons are very dependent on tracks, but on something tame and smooth, the older bikes always surprise me in how close they are!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjQ7hsbYsUs&t=521s
8
ZOBITO
Posts
574
Joined
9/6/2020
Location
MX
7/22/2021 1:26pm Edited Date/Time 7/22/2021 1:32pm
That’s an 89 with the upside down forks. The 87 is similar, but is the orange red plastic and has conventional forks. See photo for reference...
That’s an 89 with the upside down forks. The 87 is similar, but is the orange red plastic and has conventional forks. See photo for reference.

And it sounds like the clutch is slipping. Too much over rev.


From the very little I can see, it doesn't have a lowboy pipe. If I had to guess, I'd go with an 87 with a newer fork and red seat cover or an 88, last year for the up pipe.

Still don't get the point, anyway. Oh well, it's Ryan Hugues.
2
zehn
Posts
7212
Joined
1/15/2013
Location
Anchorage, AK US
7/22/2021 1:30pm
Drawing any meaningful conclusions from that track is a joke lol
3
2
ZOBITO
Posts
574
Joined
9/6/2020
Location
MX
7/22/2021 1:36pm
No, definitely not an 89 pipe.


2
1
Markus422
Posts
236
Joined
4/5/2018
Location
Seattle, WA US
7/22/2021 2:40pm Edited Date/Time 7/22/2021 2:43pm
500 is still a strong bike, though maybe not very practical (I keep losing parts from all the vibrations lol). I ride a KX500 as my main bike and I generally don’t see myself being at that much of a disadvantage from 450s, but it’s really more about the modern upgrades you add to the bike. I can’t imagine riding that thing on the stock brakes/clutch/suspension or even carb. The base package has aged really well in my opinion, in kind of a 2005 YZ250 kind of way.
1
Undersprung
Posts
46
Joined
12/31/2020
Location
Rogers, AR US
7/22/2021 5:37pm
It's almost like the bike is the smallest part of the equation.
6
1
7/22/2021 7:13pm
That’s the start line of a track we have called wildwood. Ryan did a training an unfortunately we had storming rain so the main track, kids track and turn track was super
Muddy. They just made a little turn track on the start line because it’s a hill and was dry.
2
1
KirkChandler
Posts
1667
Joined
7/31/2015
Location
Oceanside, CA US
Fantasy
357th
7/22/2021 7:19pm
ZOBITO wrote:
From the very little I can see, it doesn't have a lowboy pipe. If I had to guess, I'd go with an 87 with a newer...
From the very little I can see, it doesn't have a lowboy pipe. If I had to guess, I'd go with an 87 with a newer fork and red seat cover or an 88, last year for the up pipe.

Still don't get the point, anyway. Oh well, it's Ryan Hugues.
Hmmm, maybe it’s an 88 with upside down forks added. Because my 88 still has conventional forks.
1
spimx
Posts
1123
Joined
3/25/2019
Location
Port Isabel, TX US
7/22/2021 8:54pm
90% rider truth and some bikes got worse over time. 09 yz 450and 08 crf 450 vs the 21version, I know the older version were about 10lbs lighter.
ZOBITO
Posts
574
Joined
9/6/2020
Location
MX
7/23/2021 3:36am Edited Date/Time 7/23/2021 3:37am
Hmmm, maybe it’s an 88 with upside down forks added. Because my 88 still has conventional forks.
Absolutely. Never been an up pipe/USD forks stock combo.
philG
Posts
9630
Joined
5/12/2012
Location
GB
7/23/2021 6:26am
We ran a TM300 with a CR500 motor in it in Supermoto in 2019, we got within 0.5sec of the best time we did on put very well sorted 2018 450 Husky , on the only track we could use as a comparison.

Just like with a modern 450, the clever people work on getting them easy to ride , whereas others just want to make them faster , so they cant hang onto them.

And remember we were riding those 500's on proper tracks, not the overgroomed and jump and rutfests we have today , tracks that had bumps that had birthday parties.

I raced a KX500 at Unadilla in 19, and it was far easier to ride round there when it wasnt ripped, than it would have been back at my local track 30 years before.
8
1
Press516
Posts
3409
Joined
9/11/2018
Location
Gilbert, AZ US
Fantasy
111th
7/23/2021 7:10am
Bummer...

I'll take KX112 for $500 Alex.
1
1
DaveB771
Posts
183
Joined
7/27/2011
Location
Minneapolis, MN US
7/23/2021 7:49am Edited Date/Time 7/23/2021 7:50am
kage173 wrote:
I would love to see the time difference between a 1980 bike and a 1990 bike vs the time difference between 2010 bike and a 2020...
I would love to see the time difference between a 1980 bike and a 1990 bike vs the time difference between 2010 bike and a 2020 bike. My intuition says that 80-90 was a much bigger jump than modern. Technological innovation is almost stagnant with incremental (at best) changes that have little to no improvement on actual performance.
USA wrote:
1980 to 1990 is the same time difference as 2010 to 2020 Tongue

I bet you're right though.
Lap time difference isn't the same though.

Dirt Bike magazine did that back in 1996, so we're talking about bikes before 4-strokes took over.

Dirt Bike MX of Ages
zookrider62!
Posts
5854
Joined
12/22/2008
Location
Plano, TX US
Fantasy
975th
7/23/2021 12:52pm
It's almost like the bike is the smallest part of the equation.
Excellent point. Here is an old article where the author races a RM-Z450 against Ryan Hughes who rides four different machines, all the way down to...
Excellent point.

Here is an old article where the author races a RM-Z450 against Ryan Hughes who rides four different machines, all the way down to a DRZ125.

https://www.dirtrider.com/tests/141_0605_beating_dirt_bike_pro/
this article is one of the greats
7/23/2021 7:06pm
mark_swart wrote:
I have 86 and 87 CRs and do lap times comparisons with my modern bikes from time to time. Last year I turned a quicker lap...
I have 86 and 87 CRs and do lap times comparisons with my modern bikes from time to time. Last year I turned a quicker lap at Daytona vintage on my 87 125 than my KTM 450. Time comparisons are very dependent on tracks, but on something tame and smooth, the older bikes always surprise me in how close they are!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjQ7hsbYsUs&t=521s
Great video, you explain everything very clearly and your COOL as hell. I saw your 04 cr125 vid, it’s the best 04 cr125 video out there. My 1st bike was a 87 cr125 Grest bike bought it with a NSR port job. Broke the shock riding whoops, installed a WP shock it worked great.
7/23/2021 7:18pm
I just was watching this vid where AJ Cantanzaro rode a '21 CRF450 back-to-back with a '95 Cr250 (ripping damn good on both), and aside from...
I just was watching this vid where AJ Cantanzaro rode a '21 CRF450 back-to-back with a '95 Cr250 (ripping damn good on both), and aside from the primitive brakes, he picked the old 250 as his winner of the two for rideability:"I could totally ride this as a daily driver every day."

I saw that too. I picked up some parts today at a dealer. I sat on a 21 crf450 I don’t like it, had a better feel than kx450 tho. The crf450 is cramped just a odd feeling sitting on it, I could see having a problem getting a good feel for the bike. It’s like the bike is away from you when your on it. 02-07 cr,s feel perfect , everything is where it should be.
1

Post a reply to: Technological Innovation Fail? '87 CR500 vs. '21 CRF450 by Ryan Hughes

The Latest