Team Yamaha (rider size comparison)

What do you mean by “figuring out a new bike”?

Rider size is one of many variables that race teams deal with to customize the bikes to each riders’ preference.

I meant Team Yamaha developing the new 2018 YZ450. It sucks Davi got hurt. To me (looking on as a fan) it would be harder to develop the bike with two different sized riders (Webb/Millsaps). Looking forward, with Barcia/Webb both having similar body types and riding styles, is it common to see their setups fairly similar? I've read in almost all the reviews that the Yamaha is built for larger riders. I think it will be interesting to see Yamaha develop this version of their 450 with two smaller sized guys. Does that make more sense?

Nitrofunnycar wrote:

I meant Team Yamaha developing the new 2018 YZ450. It sucks Davi got hurt. To me (looking on as a fan) it would be harder to develop the bike with two different sized riders (Webb/Millsaps). Looking forward, with Barcia/Webb both having similar body types and riding styles, is it common to see their setups fairly similar? I've read in almost all the reviews that the Yamaha is built for larger riders. I think it will be interesting to see Yamaha develop this version of their 450 with two smaller sized guys. Does that make more sense?

The bikes are personalized as much as possible, davi, Cooper and Barcia do not necessarily effect each other's setup as they might all want something different

I think bike development is a very interesting topic.
With Yamaha even more so as the 250/450 share the same chassis (correct me if I'm wrong). So that makes me think that "economical factors " are also part of what they can do or not. Then there is the GP teams which as an outsider I would consider to have more influence because the rules allow them to try out more things. Rider size , I don't know but I can't imagine it being much of a factor.

Travis was with Team Suzuki before RC and had left the motocross team before RC joined them so I’m not sure why Travis would complain about the size of the bike being designed/setup around RC’s size.

XL 29 inch downhill bikes are pretty amazing if you're tall, and even the standard bikes are getting longer.

It'd be freaking amazing if moto had the same thing. Different wheelbases, seat/peg relationships etc...

TP and RC is literally a foot difference right?

Crush wrote:

XL 29 inch downhill bikes are pretty amazing if you're tall, and even the standard bikes are getting longer.

It'd be freaking amazing if moto had the same thing. Different wheelbases, seat/peg relationships etc...

TP and RC is literally a foot difference right?

I have a helluva time getting the sag and handlebar position set right, don't give me any more options to completely fuck the handling up.

If you set everything else the same, I think the higher center of gravity of Milsaps would make a setup quite different from Webb just from a suspension aspect. Just logically thinking here, but I would think Milsaps could get away with a stiffer suspension in the whoops since he has legs to help compensate for less fork and shock movement?

A rider like Barcia wouldn't compare well to Webb because Barcia is really high in the RPMs. It may not change much but that higher RPM changes something with the bike in a few areas of the track.

So yeah, size is just one part of the equation, but it does change it up pretty good.

They developed that 2018 long before they signed Davi. They can personalize the bike as much as they can with bars, subframes, pegs, seats, etc.

IWreckALot wrote:

If you set everything else the same, I think the higher center of gravity of Milsaps would make a setup quite different from Webb just from a suspension aspect. Just logically thinking here, but I would think Milsaps could get away with a stiffer suspension in the whoops since he has legs to help compensate for less fork and shock movement?

A rider like Barcia wouldn't compare well to Webb because Barcia is really high in the RPMs. It may not change much but that higher RPM changes something with the bike in a few areas of the track.

So yeah, size is just one part of the equation, but it does change it up pretty good.

The whole long leg whoop thing is overrated IMO.

Sure the absolute extreme of being say JT$ might suck, but for whatever TP may have gained in the whoops from being tall, trust me, it fucking sucks balls in terms of corners and jumping balance (fore-aft pitch especially)...

Moto is definitely a sport for your average height dudes. Not to say it can't work otherwise clearly, but it's not like his legs move up and down as quickly as a shock.

downard254 wrote:

Travis was with Team Suzuki before RC and had left the motocross team before RC joined them so I’m not sure why Travis would complain about the size of the bike being designed/setup around RC’s size.

In this interview, Travis says he wasn't allowed on the Suzuki test track with Carmichael, because "you might learn something". *not trying to prove right/wrong but Travis says they were teammates*.

TP199 actually said that he rode with pretty standard cockpit setting after all things were said and done. No high bars or anything.

IWreckALot wrote:

If you set everything else the same, I think the higher center of gravity of Milsaps would make a setup quite different from Webb just from a suspension aspect. Just logically thinking here, but I would think Milsaps could get away with a stiffer suspension in the whoops since he has legs to help compensate for less fork and shock movement?

A rider like Barcia wouldn't compare well to Webb because Barcia is really high in the RPMs. It may not change much but that higher RPM changes something with the bike in a few areas of the track.

So yeah, size is just one part of the equation, but it does change it up pretty good.

Crush wrote:

The whole long leg whoop thing is overrated IMO.

Sure the absolute extreme of being say JT$ might suck, but for whatever TP may have gained in the whoops from being tall, trust me, it fucking sucks balls in terms of corners and jumping balance (fore-aft pitch especially)...

Moto is definitely a sport for your average height dudes. Not to say it can't work otherwise clearly, but it's not like his legs move up and down as quickly as a shock.

Gotta be fukn hell on them knees too! Moto, running, and lifting are my favorite hobbies and def one of the reasons I’m glad I’m not 6’+ lol. I’m really surprised they havent made a bigger bike for some of the taller guys.

Thanks everyone for their input so far. Bike setup is pretty fascinating. What pro riders can feel vs not feel is pretty incredible. Not too long ago, it was discovered that Febvre had the swingarm braced/gusseted. Chad Reed had to have it, but didn't like it. Take the new Honda for example. The craze last year was to change the engine mounts to the RX ones. From a fan perspective, it's cool to see the parts getting swapped (motor mounts, triple clamps, etc). What's fascinating is the things that can't be seen (extra frame gussets, etc).

downard254 wrote:

Travis was with Team Suzuki before RC and had left the motocross team before RC joined them so I’m not sure why Travis would complain about the size of the bike being designed/setup around RC’s size.

Nitrofunnycar wrote:

In this interview, Travis says he wasn't allowed on the Suzuki test track with Carmichael, because "you might learn something". *not trying to prove right/wrong but Travis says they were teammates*.

Dang that's pretty hardcore

Crush wrote:

The whole long leg whoop thing is overrated IMO.

Sure the absolute extreme of being say JT$ might suck, but for whatever TP may have gained in the whoops from being tall, trust me, it fucking sucks balls in terms of corners and jumping balance (fore-aft pitch especially)...

Moto is definitely a sport for your average height dudes. Not to say it can't work otherwise clearly, but it's not like his legs move up and down as quickly as a shock.

JS7 was a master of commitment in the whoops, so was Reedy at times and neither of those guys are super tall. They have both been the fastest through them at given tracks. I think being too short can definitely hurt you, but I'm not so sure being taller is as an big advantage as everyone thinks.

As a guy who is 6'2" tall, I can tell you that anything past 6' is only a disadvantage when riding a MX bike. There are zero advantages to being over 6' tall. Everything is harder and maintaining proper riding technique on a bike designed for someone who is 5'7" is not easy even with changes to accommodate height. And before someone brings it up, I have no idea how BBloss can ride so well lol. He's an alien.

Pourcel, Barcia, Stewart. Not too different size wise, but I bet their setup is miles apart. If tomac isn't 'comfy', hes not the fastest that day.

Pretty relevant thread actually. My 8 year old son who races Bmx in expert notices little adjustments even moving his bars back or forward up or down, it makes a big difference for body position, whether having a good posture and technique at the gate or just how he looks on the bike as he's riding. As he grew I kept the same frame brand, similar style frames just slightly bigger geometry and it's worked really well as each time he's moved up a bike frame it's not a big issue Then moving his rear wheel forward or back effects his manualing or crank size as his legs grow.It blows me away even at his age he notices it.
.. There are exceptions with some riders not as fussy but I would say the vast majority of these pro mx/sx guys setup would be absolutely crucial Especially lugging a 450 around . I'd imagine having seperate mechanics like they do wouldn't make it that difficult.. Except if a rider just doesn't gell with the bike at all.

Nitrofunnycar wrote:

I meant Team Yamaha developing the new 2018 YZ450. It sucks Davi got hurt. To me (looking on as a fan) it would be harder to develop the bike with two different sized riders (Webb/Millsaps). Looking forward, with Barcia/Webb both having similar body types and riding styles, is it common to see their setups fairly similar? I've read in almost all the reviews that the Yamaha is built for larger riders. I think it will be interesting to see Yamaha develop this version of their 450 with two smaller sized guys. Does that make more sense?

Well almost all reviews you read were completely off on the Yamaha being for a taller rider. They have had cramped cockpit quarters since 2014. The distance between the pegs to seat is at least 5 mm shorter than every other brand. The length of realistically usable seat is about 4 to 5 inches less than every other brand as well. It gets mistakenly identified as a bike for bigger riders because it's fat around the shrouds, when in reality that doesn't make it good for bigger riders, that just makes it fat

It’s worth being a little cramped on a bike just to not have to lie about how tall I am on my Tonder profile.

Anyone remember when Carmichael used to have his bars rolled back absolutely ridiculously far back. He only did it on the Honda for some reason not on the Kawi or Suzy.

[LINK TO IMAGE]

drt410 wrote:

Anyone remember when Carmichael used to have his bars rolled back absolutely ridiculously far back. He only did it on the Honda for some reason not on the Kawi or Suzy.

[LINK TO IMAGE]

His reasoning at the time was that was what made it feel like his Kawi...

Crazy as soon as he went to the Zook it changed a lot too.

Nitrofunnycar wrote:

Thanks everyone for their input so far. Bike setup is pretty fascinating. What pro riders can feel vs not feel is pretty incredible. Not too long ago, it was discovered that Febvre had the swingarm braced/gusseted. Chad Reed had to have it, but didn't like it. Take the new Honda for example. The craze last year was to change the engine mounts to the RX ones. From a fan perspective, it's cool to see the parts getting swapped (motor mounts, triple clamps, etc). What's fascinating is the things that can't be seen (extra frame gussets, etc).

Not a lot of good info yet. I dont have much first hand info, but you can see and sometimes hear about some influence of some riders on bike design years after the rider raced. But this is often subtle - the designers make the big decisions. Its not always the main rider either - can be a test rider for example.
As for sharing info, from what you hear, this varies from team to team and situation to situation. E.g. The way Mitch talks, procircuit would share info. Star yamaha and Webb / Martin back a few years ago - probably not so much. Webb and Reed last year and they have so different styles and Reed is so fussy - who knows.

Dude...