Taking a dive (Eligibility)

FerCzD
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Edited Date/Time 5/2/2021 6:30am
Thoughts?

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-MAVERICK-
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4/30/2021 4:54pm
Thoughts? The system is broken.

Just do away with the pointing out rule. Let them race the 250 class for as long as they want. If they want to make the big bucks they'll move up to the 450 class.
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FerCzD
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4/30/2021 5:03pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Thoughts? The system is broken. Just do away with the pointing out rule. Let them race the 250 class for as long as they want. If...
Thoughts? The system is broken.

Just do away with the pointing out rule. Let them race the 250 class for as long as they want. If they want to make the big bucks they'll move up to the 450 class.
Feel the same about the 23 y/o rule in the GPs. I don't think anyone not named Jorge Prado would have win the title when he was racing MX2.

Thrasher is in a good position for a successful career en the 250, the only thing I don't like about taking dives is when a new upcoming talent is neglected a chance of a top ride because it has been already given to someone with that has had many shots at it. In this case, he is not leaving anyone without a ride, fine for me.
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jbrown15
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4/30/2021 5:12pm
At this point its a complete joke, I don't know why they don't just get rid of the point rule. If someone wants to race their entire career in the 250 class and teams are willing to hire them then why the hell now. It's not like all of these amateur kids that are getting factory deals before even turning pro are really turning out the way they should be so why the hell not.

And if the factory teams make the pay scale reflect that they are only riding in the 250 class and not the premier 450 class guys will want to move up anyways to make more anyways.
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mb60
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4/30/2021 5:29pm
Make it a 17 race championship. Treat it as Mx3 if you want to be a regional championship. Embarrassed to even see chicken shit like that from our sport.
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The Shop

4/30/2021 5:44pm
Scrap the 450 class for supercross, make the 250 class the premier and a 125 true supported feeder class. Use the winnings from the current 250 class to fund the feeder class with lower race fees and assisted travel, could also up the prize money for 5-15th in the Premier class to sweeten the deal for the young guys. This is a sink or swim sport, what's the point in watching talent standing in the shallow end, too scared to ever jump into the deep end?
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jbrown15
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4/30/2021 5:44pm
mb60 wrote:
Make it a 17 race championship. Treat it as Mx3 if you want to be a regional championship. Embarrassed to even see chicken shit like that...
Make it a 17 race championship. Treat it as Mx3 if you want to be a regional championship. Embarrassed to even see chicken shit like that from our sport.
The problem I could see if they did that and got rid of the West and East Coasts is there would be less rides available, 250 teams won't have 4 riders if they are having to race the same 17 rounds as the 450 teams
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mxtech1
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4/30/2021 6:20pm Edited Date/Time 5/1/2021 7:42am
I don’t blame him at all. If he races and scores at least 8 points (which he would) then his eligibility clock starts and then he would only have 3 years remaining. He’s 11 points behind Swoll so it’s unlikely he’s going to do anything that could potentially move him into 5th in championship points.

I think the rule is somewhat archaic. The 250 class is not the low budget feeder class it used to be back in the 125 days. IMO, due away with the East/West format, making it a national championship rather than regional, and then abolish the eligibility rule so that guys can race whichever class they choose.
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EngIceDave
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4/30/2021 6:25pm
If it is a professional racing division, it should be open to all professionally licensed racers.

Period.
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Sully22
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4/30/2021 6:52pm
Lol, I’m a numbers nerd and earlier this week started calculating all the points/possibilities for Mosiman, Thrasher, and Marchbanks to pass the 135 points threshold, thus losing a year of eligibility. This answers that question for Thrasher. Peters is at 111, so he’d need a win to pass 135 and lose a year.

Just going off memory, outta all these guys only mosiman has used a year of eligibility.
Spudnut
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4/30/2021 6:55pm
I would bet that’s stars call and not thrashers
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Renner153
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4/30/2021 7:33pm
mxtech1 wrote:
I don’t blame him at all. If he races and scores at least 8 points (which he would) then his eligibility clock starts and then he...
I don’t blame him at all. If he races and scores at least 8 points (which he would) then his eligibility clock starts and then he would only have 3 years remaining. He’s 11 points behind Swoll so it’s unlikely he’s going to do anything that could potentially move him into 5th in championship points.

I think the rule is somewhat archaic. The 250 class is not the low budget feeder class it used to be back in the 125 days. IMO, due away with the East/West format, making it a national championship rather than regional, and then abolish the eligibility rule so that guys can race whichever class they choose.
Remember the good ole days when guys didn’t race the 250 class for more than 4 years anyways?
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Spooner
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4/30/2021 7:57pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2021 7:58pm
Why not race and just pull in a lap early? Yes I think its insane that he "needs" to do any of this.
tiddlermx23
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4/30/2021 8:05pm
So we have this kid in his first year of racing sitting out because of points and then we have a Christian Craig who has been able to race for umpteen years as a pro in the same class. Seems like a good system to me guys...
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lestat
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Piut RE
4/30/2021 9:19pm
It’s a joke . My interest in the 250 classes decreases every year . Make it a 17 race series open to anyone or I don’t care .
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bigk218
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4/30/2021 9:24pm
Nothing to see here. The class is already joke. Where do I begin
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5/1/2021 3:54am
Way to disrespect the Dave Coombs Sr East/West showdown Star/Thrasher. Lame AF.
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Boomslang
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5/1/2021 4:07am Edited Date/Time 5/1/2021 4:08am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Thoughts? The system is broken. Just do away with the pointing out rule. Let them race the 250 class for as long as they want. If...
Thoughts? The system is broken.

Just do away with the pointing out rule. Let them race the 250 class for as long as they want. If they want to make the big bucks they'll move up to the 450 class.
100% agree with you, some dudes are better suited to a 250, with that said, the 450 class is where there real money is.

I still maintain that there should be a full series for the 250's as is with the 450 class.

MotoGp has three classes...why the hell can't SX get the formula right?

Add a feeder class to the evening (East/West) and these guys can earn points towards their super licence...as in motogp
Regis
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5/1/2021 4:30am
Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
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Regis
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5/1/2021 4:33am
EngIceDave wrote:
If it is a professional racing division, it should be open to all professionally licensed racers.

Period.
Completely right.

The whole concept has changed. It used to be an “entry” level. Back when there weren’t private Supercross tracks available to everybody.

Even until 1999 in Southern California there wasn’t private SX tracks available to hone your skills. Now kids on 85’s are riding them and ready by the time they turn pro.

It should be an equal class. Simple change to cure all problems.
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kijen
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5/1/2021 5:33am
Sandbaggin has crept up from the amateurs to the pros. I.e. the thought is for an amateur to get to A class, pros get to the premier class. As a pro Staying down a class is avoiding the opportunity to race the best. If they dont have the money, team support etc...i understand....the 250 class is still the minor leagues regardless, pros getting paid, yes. The best competition, no.
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-MAVERICK-
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kijen wrote:
Sandbaggin has crept up from the amateurs to the pros. I.e. the thought is for an amateur to get to A class, pros get to the...
Sandbaggin has crept up from the amateurs to the pros. I.e. the thought is for an amateur to get to A class, pros get to the premier class. As a pro Staying down a class is avoiding the opportunity to race the best. If they dont have the money, team support etc...i understand....the 250 class is still the minor leagues regardless, pros getting paid, yes. The best competition, no.
You can't sandbag a pro class.

250 and 450 are both pro classes. Some guys ride the 250 better, some guys ride the 450 better, and some ride both bikes equally.

There shouldn't be any shame in riding the 250 for your entire career.
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Sully22
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5/1/2021 7:40am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
You can't sandbag a pro class. 250 and 450 are both pro classes. Some guys ride the 250 better, some guys ride the 450 better, and...
You can't sandbag a pro class.

250 and 450 are both pro classes. Some guys ride the 250 better, some guys ride the 450 better, and some ride both bikes equally.

There shouldn't be any shame in riding the 250 for your entire career.
This! I’ve always thought / said this same thing. If davalos, the Martin bros, decotis, Craig, and countless others are better on the 250, or that’s the only paying ride they can find, or that’s what they want to ride, so be it. The eligibility rules are awful and I can’t blame guys for doing whatever they can to keep years of eligibility as insurance... you never know what’s going to happen in this sport. Fun fact - this is Craig’s 9th year in the class, and I believe this is only the 2nd time he’s reached the points threshold... dude has 2 more years of eligibility left, which he may or may not ever use/need.


https://vault.racerxonline.com/rider/christian-craig/points
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mxtech1
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5/1/2021 7:46am
Renner153 wrote:
Remember the good ole days when guys didn’t race the 250 class for more than 4 years anyways?
Yep! The goal use to be to do 2-3 years in the lites class and then move up to 250/450 as soon as they could.

Today, it’s like the plan for all of them is to max out on as many years as they can before being forced to moved up. Of course there are some exceptions. Hi think the OEMs are valuing 250 wins and championships just as heavy as 450 these days, so they want to keep these guys under contract in 250 for 3,4,5 years before planning on moving them up to 450.
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Bearuno
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5/1/2021 7:59am
So we have this kid in his first year of racing sitting out because of points and then we have a Christian Craig who has been...
So we have this kid in his first year of racing sitting out because of points and then we have a Christian Craig who has been able to race for umpteen years as a pro in the same class. Seems like a good system to me guys...
Bloody Hell when you look at that comparison, there really is something wrong with the system! And that's nothing, on my part, against CC.

At least the US system allows far more chance for a racer to stay in a class that suits them / allows them to make a living. It gave one of my favourite racers the chance to not get thrown to the wolves, and go into the 450 class when he (said) he wasn't ready. To go home, continue his progression, make a good living, then move to the 450s, and Win, in his own time.

The Lluongo 23 and over, 2 titles maximum and you're out, is just bullshit of the highest order. It damages / destroys far more riders' careers, than it ever helps.

I tend to be in favour of a full 17 round series for 250s, but, at the same time, I know it would reduce the amount of riders that might be able to earn a lining from the sport, so, East / West it is.

Unless they would re- introduce 125s as The split series, Whilst retaining the 250 And 450 series. And, bring the 3 classes back to Outdoors as well ( with equivalency) . But, Pigs might Fly before that would ever happen .............
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Talisker
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5/1/2021 8:30am
No matter what rule is made, people and teams, will find ways to milk or cheat them.
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wildbill
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5/1/2021 8:43am
125s on today's tracks would not be a safe thing to attempt. Not that safety and Supercross go hand-in-hand though.
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Jdawggg
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5/1/2021 8:56am Edited Date/Time 5/1/2021 8:57am
EngIceDave wrote:
If it is a professional racing division, it should be open to all professionally licensed racers.

Period.
Regis wrote:
Completely right. The whole concept has changed. It used to be an “entry” level. Back when there weren’t private Supercross tracks available to everybody. Even until...
Completely right.

The whole concept has changed. It used to be an “entry” level. Back when there weren’t private Supercross tracks available to everybody.

Even until 1999 in Southern California there wasn’t private SX tracks available to hone your skills. Now kids on 85’s are riding them and ready by the time they turn pro.

It should be an equal class. Simple change to cure all problems.
I think it could have unintended consequences.. What if an elite level rider like Barcia, Musquin or Brayton (think Langston) decided to move down towards the end of their career and won like 5 250 titles in a row?? similar to how some have done to arena cross what would that do to the $$ and rides available to the new kids
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visser62
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5/1/2021 9:00am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
You can't sandbag a pro class. 250 and 450 are both pro classes. Some guys ride the 250 better, some guys ride the 450 better, and...
You can't sandbag a pro class.

250 and 450 are both pro classes. Some guys ride the 250 better, some guys ride the 450 better, and some ride both bikes equally.

There shouldn't be any shame in riding the 250 for your entire career.
Triple-A is professional baseball, you saying Mike Trout wouldn't be sandbagging if he spent his career there? Guys like Tomac, Roczen, and Webb shouldn't spend their careers in the 250 class.

That said, I think I agree with what you're actually saying. If you win two titles, move up, but otherwise, why not be able to stay in? I don't think it's a big deal if you have a Davalos or Savatgy in there for a long time, as long as they aren't racking up title after title.
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philG
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5/1/2021 9:02am
Nobody cares... they race half the riders in half the races, SLC1, they should have pulled people out of the crowd to gatefill.

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racin mason
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5/1/2021 9:04am
EngIceDave wrote:
If it is a professional racing division, it should be open to all professionally licensed racers.

Period.
Regis wrote:
Completely right. The whole concept has changed. It used to be an “entry” level. Back when there weren’t private Supercross tracks available to everybody. Even until...
Completely right.

The whole concept has changed. It used to be an “entry” level. Back when there weren’t private Supercross tracks available to everybody.

Even until 1999 in Southern California there wasn’t private SX tracks available to hone your skills. Now kids on 85’s are riding them and ready by the time they turn pro.

It should be an equal class. Simple change to cure all problems.
Jdawggg wrote:
I think it could have unintended consequences.. What if an elite level rider like Barcia, Musquin or Brayton (think Langston) decided to move down towards the...
I think it could have unintended consequences.. What if an elite level rider like Barcia, Musquin or Brayton (think Langston) decided to move down towards the end of their career and won like 5 250 titles in a row?? similar to how some have done to arena cross what would that do to the $$ and rides available to the new kids
Whats wrong with the fastest rider winning the race?

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