TM at Loretta's

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8/2/2017 9:29 PM

After looking at the Supermini 1 & 2 results it looks like Ty Masterpool is the fastest there. If he is able to grab a championship would this be the first for TM at Loretta's? I checked the vault and it looks like it would be. Just checking on here to see if anyone else nows something.

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8/2/2017 9:37 PM

Mark Stone is also on one in the 85 12-13. He has a 4th and a 6th so far. He just got his about 3 weeks ago

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8/2/2017 9:52 PM

Not sure about the championship question but if they did have any it wouldn't be many.

a young guy by the name of Jett Burgess-Stevens from Tasmania Australia is riding one over there this week in 2 classes and pulled a decent holeshot in one of his races and also suffered some bad luck in another moto but that is racing.

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8/2/2017 11:35 PM

Theres a few guys out there on TMs, i think thats very cool. Itd be pretty sweet if TM stepped it up and started a factory team and put the effort in for SX and MX. Their bikes seem good, Bernadini has had some solid results on them in the MX2 class in the gps. I wonder whats holding them back from doing that?

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8/3/2017 12:08 AM

I watched some day 1 racing and was surprised to see a bunch of TM's out there. I assume they have put together somekind of an amateur team effort and apparently a pretty good one. Wonder if we'll see somekind of a pro team there in a few years?

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8/3/2017 12:17 AM

Also young Aussie kid Jet Burgess Stevens pulled the Hollie on his TM85 i think the 9-12 yrs 85 class against Rider D

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8/3/2017 12:36 AM

mxjon454 wrote:

Theres a few guys out there on TMs, i think thats very cool. Itd be pretty sweet if TM stepped it up and started a factory team and put the effort in for SX and MX. Their bikes seem good, Bernadini has had some solid results on them in the MX2 class in the gps. I wonder whats holding them back from doing that?

What's holding them back from putting a factory team together in the US?

Seeing as they don't sell much units their budget would be pretty much non existent and they also don't import the minimum requirement of 400 units in order for them to be homologated. It sucks that it's the way the rules are written because I personally would love to see TM out there.

They can't even support a guy like Steinke on a 125 because the bike is not on the list of approved models.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

8/3/2017 12:37 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/3/2017 12:38 AM

mxjon454 wrote:

Theres a few guys out there on TMs, i think thats very cool. Itd be pretty sweet if TM stepped it up and started a factory team and put the effort in for SX and MX. Their bikes seem good, Bernadini has had some solid results on them in the MX2 class in the gps. I wonder whats holding them back from doing that?

The fact that they make (much) less than 2000 bikes a year - that's what holds them back.

They'd need a "sugar daddy" of a sponsor, like KTM have had with Red Bull, to do more racing than they do now.

They've survived very well, over quite a few years, as a tiny manufacturer, - trying to go 'big(er)', could bring them more problems than benefits.

I for one love that a small family owned Manufacturer can exist and, relatively, thrive in this World, still.

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8/3/2017 1:22 AM

Its probably easier for them to have success in the small bore 2 stroke amateur classes. Good place to start

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8/3/2017 5:34 AM

Would be nice if they could get an exemption to race in the US SX and MX series.... Would mean a few more factory spots for guys to fill.

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8/3/2017 6:17 AM

From what I understand, the U.S. importer is more interested in bringing in the two stroke models, at least for the time being.

Those TM 85's and 100's are really cool if you get a chance to look one over. Aluminum frames, a massive clutch for a little bike (if I remember hearing correctly it is the same as the 125), and a lot of little things you just don't see on a mini bike. Maybe Derek Harris can chime in and shed some light to how much, or little, was put into that engine. Ty had been running the stock 100 up until a few weeks ago.

It's probably worth a cost analysis if you are building supermini's for junior. A 100cc that's really reliable for 6500, or a kx or ktm.

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8/3/2017 6:18 AM

Didn't know they had enough to be homologated ?

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8/3/2017 7:53 AM

wardy wrote:

Didn't know they had enough to be homologated ?

Don't need to be homologated at the amateur level, only at the pro national level.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

8/3/2017 8:14 AM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Don't need to be homologated at the amateur level, only at the pro national level.

false

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8/3/2017 8:46 AM

Ty masterpool has very little support from tm. And Derek harris did his engine work on his tm100. Little ripper he sure is.

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8/3/2017 9:48 AM

wardy wrote:

Didn't know they had enough to be homologated ?

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Don't need to be homologated at the amateur level, only at the pro national level.

mauidex wrote:

false

You honestly think Cobra and TM made/imported 400 units in order for them to be eligible at the amateur level? What about the other 4 bikes competing at LL's that are classified under Other?

Seriously think about it.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

8/3/2017 9:50 AM

Awesome to see something different at the front of the pack. Tm's have always been so trick and good looking. Someday I will have a 144.

I believe MXA had something to do with sneaking one into a National in the mid 90s at Glen Helen. Tech just thought it was a KTM.

I don't expect them to ever have the money for a major team in the US but it would be awesome to see a solid Amateur effort. Mx needs 2 strokes and there's a need for more than just orange or white Austrian bikes.

What surprises me the most isn't that the TM is so competitive....but that there's a kid capable of winning who hasn't been wrapped up by Team Green or The Orange brigade yet... unfortunately I would not expect any kid that podiums this year to be on a TM next year. But hopefully their presence can continue to grow and we'll see more blue Italian bikes at the races.

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8/3/2017 10:01 AM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Don't need to be homologated at the amateur level, only at the pro national level.

mauidex wrote:

false

-MAVERICK- wrote:

You honestly think Cobra and TM made/imported 400 units in order for them to be eligible at the amateur level? What about the other 4 bikes competing at LL's that are classified under Other?

Seriously think about it.

Yes, I used to work for cobra we had to meet the ama rules for homologation... Some years were a struggle to meet the deadline. A few AMA guys would come and physically count every model of every bike...

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8/3/2017 10:01 AM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

You honestly think Cobra and TM made/imported 400 units in order for them to be eligible at the amateur level? What about the other 4 bikes competing at LL's that are classified under Other?

Seriously think about it.

not sure what the am rules actually are now but there has always been a certain number of units that had to be available..............may be an exemption for "non stock" modified classes?? no dog in the fight so mot going to bother looking it up but i assure you there is an amateur homologation rule

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8/3/2017 10:02 AM

Jarrod458 wrote:

Yes, I used to work for cobra we had to meet the ama rules for homologation... Some years were a struggle to meet the deadline. A few AMA guys would come and physically count every model of every bike...

exactly

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8/3/2017 10:26 AM

mauidex wrote:

false

-MAVERICK- wrote:

You honestly think Cobra and TM made/imported 400 units in order for them to be eligible at the amateur level? What about the other 4 bikes competing at LL's that are classified under Other?

Seriously think about it.

Jarrod458 wrote:

Yes, I used to work for cobra we had to meet the ama rules for homologation... Some years were a struggle to meet the deadline. A few AMA guys would come and physically count every model of every bike...

Well if that's the case the number must be pretty low because I don't think TM imports all that many bikes in the US let alone 85's.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

8/3/2017 10:30 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/3/2017 10:33 AM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

You honestly think Cobra and TM made/imported 400 units in order for them to be eligible at the amateur level? What about the other 4 bikes competing at LL's that are classified under Other?

Seriously think about it.

Jarrod458 wrote:

Yes, I used to work for cobra we had to meet the ama rules for homologation... Some years were a struggle to meet the deadline. A few AMA guys would come and physically count every model of every bike...

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Well if that's the case the number must be pretty low because I don't think TM imports all that many bikes in the US let alone 85's.

Limited classes require homologation. Min qty 65 machines to public +qty 10 for AMA inspection

Mod classes are not subject to the same standards.

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8/3/2017 10:33 AM

SECTION 1.2 MOTOCROSS EQUIPMENT
Special Note: The American Motorcyclist Association doesn't inspect vehicles in AMA-sanctioned competition. Participants are solely responsible for the condition of their vehicles and their competence to operate them.
A. Approval of Motorcycles/Minicycles
1. Next year model machines are not eligible in any class at the AMA Amateur National Motocross Championships.
2. 0-112cc 2-stroke/150cc 4-stroke Limited Class
a. To be approved for AMA-sanctioned competition, minicycles (engines and frames) must be available through retail distributors.
b. For a minicycle to be homologated, the manufacturer must apply to the AMA, register the machine's specifications, provide photographs, OEM parts list, provide 10 identical machines of the same year and model for AMA Inspection and an additional 65 identical machines of the same year and model are manufactured and available for sale to the general public through a distributor network by April 15th of the current model year.
c. Manufacturers and distributors must have a sufficient quantity of spare parts to meet customer demand for a minimum of the current model year being approved.
d. Superseded or redesigned parts must be submitted to AMA Racing for review and approval before their use in competition. These parts must be listed in the current OEM parts list supplied to AMA Racing.
e. The AMA may require one unit of each approved model and/or superseded or redesigned part(s) to be provided for long-term parts comparison.
f. Only after the homologation paperwork has been verified and approved by AMA Racing will the minicycle be added to the approved for AMA competition list.
g. Homologation will last until such time as the motorcycle no longer conforms to the current limited class rules.
h. Homologation is required each year for new models even if that model hasn't changed from the previous year homologation.
i. AMA Racing will provide a list of homologated minicycles. This list may be updated at any time.
j. If at any time it is discovered that the manufacturer hasn't met the requirements or falsified any information during the homologation process, the manufacturer may be fined up to $10,000 and may
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be placed on probation or suspension from AMA competition for up to five years.
k. Minicycles will be approved at the sole discretion of AMA Racing.
3. 113cc 2-stroke/151 4-stroke and up Limited Class
a. To be approved for AMA-sanctioned competition, motorcycles (engines and frames) must be available through retail distributors.
b. A new manufacturer may be required to complete an approval application on initial request for approval for a new model or any time the AMA deems necessary.
c. Motorcycles will be approved at the sole discretion of AMA Racing.
B. Limited Class Equipment Standards
1. To be eligible for a LIMITED CLASS, the following ARE NOT PERMITTED to be changed or modified:
Air Box
Air Box Vent Tube
Air Filter Screen
Air Intake Boot
Axle
Brake Rotor Size (thickness/diameter)
Brake Master Cylinder
Carburetor (including any parts with exception to jets) Clutch (any part including clutch cover) 2
Crankshaft Stroke Length
Cylinder Bore Size 1
EFI Throttle Body 5
Electronics 5
Exhaust Control Valve (ECV)
Exhaust Pipe (any part)
Frame 3
Front Forks 4
Front Fork Caps
Intake Spacer
Internal Engine Components (blue printing is not allowed) 2 Lower Triple Clamp
Oil Injection System (only oil may be in system) 6
Rear Shock 4
Reed Valve Assembly (any part)
Rim Size
Silencer (tip may be modified to accept spark arrestor) Subframe 3
Swingarm 3
Transmission (any internal part)
Yamaha PW50 Start/Run/Off Switch
Water Pump Assembly (any part except the cover) Wheel Hubs
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MOTOCROSS 1.2
2. To be eligible for the LIMITED CLASS, the following ARE NOT PERMITTED to be added:
Adjustable Leak Jet
Bark Busters (closed end or wrap-around metal hand guards) Fork Brace
Radiator Fan
3. The following notes are exceptions to the items listed above:
a. 1 Cylinder re-plating is allowed by the original manufacturer’s bore must be retained.
b. 2 Clutch plates, pistons, and piston rings may be aftermarket as long as they maintain the stock shape, design, and material of the OEM parts. High compression pistons are not allowed.
c. 3 Material may be added to the production frame or swingarm for strength, including welding. These changes shall not affect frame geometry.
d. 4 OEM front and rear suspension can be altered with internal modifications only. Shock linkage and suspension spring rates may be changed to any commercially available part.
e. 5 Programming or mapping changes to the stock OEM ECU unit are permitted.
f. 6 To be eligible for limited classes that use oil- injection systems, the system must be fully functional and only oil may be put in the reservoir. Pre-mix gasoline is not allowed in the oil-injection system.

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8/3/2017 10:41 AM

My bad I just looked it up and yes there is a homologation rule at the amateur level but it's a very small number as noted above compared to the pro level.

Why can't we have those minimal amount of units for the pro level? If TM only had to bring in 50-100 units maybe we would see them support a couple privateers and support a small team. Asking to bring in a minimum of 400 units is just not doable for a small company.

That rule needs to change.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

8/3/2017 10:43 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/3/2017 10:44 AM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

My bad I just looked it up and yes there is a homologation rule at the amateur level but it's a very small number as noted above compared to the pro level.

Why can't we have those minimal amount of units for the pro level? If TM only had to bring in 50-100 units maybe we would see them support a couple privateers and support a small team. Asking to bring in a minimum of 400 units is just not doable for a small company.

That rule needs to change.

I'm pretty sure they don't even come close to those smaller amateur numbers for any machine.

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8/3/2017 10:52 AM

trust me TM could GAF about having any real presence in the US marketcool
cool

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8/3/2017 11:43 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/3/2017 11:44 AM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

My bad I just looked it up and yes there is a homologation rule at the amateur level but it's a very small number as noted above compared to the pro level.

Why can't we have those minimal amount of units for the pro level? If TM only had to bring in 50-100 units maybe we would see them support a couple privateers and support a small team. Asking to bring in a minimum of 400 units is just not doable for a small company.

That rule needs to change.

They don't lower the number because of the big manufacturers and the works rule. If Honda or Yamaha only needed 65 to meet homologation they could easily meet that requirement and keep making mid season changes.

What I wish they would do is base the homologation number off of a percentage of previous years units. Pick whatever percentage. 5% for example. If you sold 1,000 250f's in the U.S. you would need 50 to meet homologation for the next model to be legal to race. It's fair for every manufacturer regardless of production ability and gives small manufacturers a realistic chance.

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8/3/2017 12:06 PM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

My bad I just looked it up and yes there is a homologation rule at the amateur level but it's a very small number as noted above compared to the pro level.

Why can't we have those minimal amount of units for the pro level? If TM only had to bring in 50-100 units maybe we would see them support a couple privateers and support a small team. Asking to bring in a minimum of 400 units is just not doable for a small company.

That rule needs to change.

aFACEdismembered wrote:

They don't lower the number because of the big manufacturers and the works rule. If Honda or Yamaha only needed 65 to meet homologation they could easily meet that requirement and keep making mid season changes.

What I wish they would do is base the homologation number off of a percentage of previous years units. Pick whatever percentage. 5% for example. If you sold 1,000 250f's in the U.S. you would need 50 to meet homologation for the next model to be legal to race. It's fair for every manufacturer regardless of production ability and gives small manufacturers a realistic chance.

Just get rid of the whole homologation rule and bring back works bike.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

8/3/2017 12:28 PM

Ty can win the last moto and be the Champion on a TM.

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8/3/2017 1:39 PM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

My bad I just looked it up and yes there is a homologation rule at the amateur level but it's a very small number as noted above compared to the pro level.

Why can't we have those minimal amount of units for the pro level? If TM only had to bring in 50-100 units maybe we would see them support a couple privateers and support a small team. Asking to bring in a minimum of 400 units is just not doable for a small company.

That rule needs to change.

aFACEdismembered wrote:

They don't lower the number because of the big manufacturers and the works rule. If Honda or Yamaha only needed 65 to meet homologation they could easily meet that requirement and keep making mid season changes.

What I wish they would do is base the homologation number off of a percentage of previous years units. Pick whatever percentage. 5% for example. If you sold 1,000 250f's in the U.S. you would need 50 to meet homologation for the next model to be legal to race. It's fair for every manufacturer regardless of production ability and gives small manufacturers a realistic chance.

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Just get rid of the whole homologation rule and bring back works bike.

I'm ok with that because I ride a 2005 KX250 and it doesn't affect me. For the people who buy new bikes every few year or race I don't think they would like the price tag associated with it. Suzuki can't even support 2 teams, much less the cash flow required to continually develop a works bike. grin

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