Suzuki has let go of the R&D department

deadlo
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deadlo 4/30/2020 8:46am
4/30/2020 8:46am
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
Here in the UK my best friend wanted a new YZ250 in 2018- he had to wait weeks and was able to get the last one...
Here in the UK my best friend wanted a new YZ250 in 2018- he had to wait weeks and was able to get the last one available in the UK- the dealer told him that Yamah sell every single YZ250 they bring in and could sell more.

How this number compares to YZ450Fs sold I cannot comment.

The consumers may not be asking specifically for a two stroke, but you don't need to go far to find people saying "too expensive" or "too complicated" or "too hard to work on"

In translation, that reads to me as people want cheap, simple, easy to maintain.- Everything a modern four-stroke isn't.

If we could have hands in the air across the globe, it'd be interesting to ask a basic moto question:

Who wants:
A) Cheaper to buy, cheaper & easier to maintain, simplistic built dirtbikes?
or
Cool More cutting edge technology, which in turn might mean you can't work on them at home and the cost of buying and maintaining them will continue to rise.

Which do you think will get more votes?
I think the 2 stroke debate on this specific thread is off topic. Suzuki losing its r & d doesn’t mean they’re bringing back the rm in an aluminum frame like supposedly everyone wants. They won’t even add the minor changes they need to in their current 4 strokes they’ve been cycling year after year for how long now?
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RandyS
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RandyS 4/30/2020 9:20am
4/30/2020 9:20am
I'm not sure why any of the companies is putting much effort into ICE development. We are all going to be buying electric bikes very soon if we want new bikes. And when it changes it will be like the change from 2 stoke to 4, 50% of the new bike buyers will switch in the first 2 years, 90% by year 5 if ICE bikes are even still available.
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RandyS
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RandyS 4/30/2020 9:58am
4/30/2020 9:58am
Travis_Hudson wrote:
I sure hope they don't go away.
That's if non essential activities are even allowed. I'm not so sure how much faith I have in the American people to keep that from happening.
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Markee
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Markee 4/30/2020 10:02am
4/30/2020 10:02am
Ride what you want and shut the fuck up about it. All this "spoke with my wallet" "spoke with my wife's change purse" "spoke with my grandmothers hope chest".... You want attention for your purchase, we get it.

You want a smoker? KTM makes some of the best ones ever made, go buy it. Living in the past all the damn time with some manufacture color that holds a special place in your heart. Give me a break. Other than Alta shutting down, there is any flavor of bike out there for you to purchase, enjoy and suck wind on in 1 lap. R&D your life together.
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BobPA
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BobPA 4/30/2020 10:16am
4/30/2020 10:16am
Markee wrote:
Ride what you want and shut the fuck up about it. All this "spoke with my wallet" "spoke with my wife's change purse" "spoke with my...
Ride what you want and shut the fuck up about it. All this "spoke with my wallet" "spoke with my wife's change purse" "spoke with my grandmothers hope chest".... You want attention for your purchase, we get it.

You want a smoker? KTM makes some of the best ones ever made, go buy it. Living in the past all the damn time with some manufacture color that holds a special place in your heart. Give me a break. Other than Alta shutting down, there is any flavor of bike out there for you to purchase, enjoy and suck wind on in 1 lap. R&D your life together.
Markee have a Snickers dude. You're an insufferable douche bag when you are hungry....

Although it seems you may just be a waste of air in general after that gem.

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Sierra Ranger
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Sierra Ranger 4/30/2020 10:26am
4/30/2020 10:26am
On the plus side, you can get a new RMZ250 for $5700. I assume if you buy one and they go out of business, you'll still be able to get parts etc.
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JAFO92
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JAFO92 4/30/2020 10:30am
4/30/2020 10:30am
Sierra Ranger wrote:
On the plus side, you can get a new RMZ250 for $5700. I assume if you buy one and they go out of business, you'll still...
On the plus side, you can get a new RMZ250 for $5700. I assume if you buy one and they go out of business, you'll still be able to get parts etc.
Suzuki? Going outta business? Mmm-kay.

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rbspecial138
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rbspecial138 4/30/2020 10:32am
4/30/2020 10:32am
Markee wrote:
Ride what you want and shut the fuck up about it. All this "spoke with my wallet" "spoke with my wife's change purse" "spoke with my...
Ride what you want and shut the fuck up about it. All this "spoke with my wallet" "spoke with my wife's change purse" "spoke with my grandmothers hope chest".... You want attention for your purchase, we get it.

You want a smoker? KTM makes some of the best ones ever made, go buy it. Living in the past all the damn time with some manufacture color that holds a special place in your heart. Give me a break. Other than Alta shutting down, there is any flavor of bike out there for you to purchase, enjoy and suck wind on in 1 lap. R&D your life together.
I kinda have to agree with you on this one, Yamaha isn't paying me a cent to keep riding Yamaha two strokes. If they want their decades old two strokes to remain in my garage, I guess they need to be competitive with KTM.
Spooner
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Spooner 4/30/2020 10:42am
4/30/2020 10:42am
The real proof they are asleep at the wheel is that they STILL don't have a side by side.
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Tbteam
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Tbteam 4/30/2020 10:50am
4/30/2020 10:50am
Even a hurricane starts with a soft breeze. I don't think that Suzuki is the only brand not seeing a great return from their MX efforts.
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MZ193
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MZ193 4/30/2020 10:56am
4/30/2020 10:56am
Tbteam wrote:
Even a hurricane starts with a soft breeze. I don't think that Suzuki is the only brand not seeing a great return from their MX efforts.
This is scary as fuck.
I really hope they keep putting all the effort they are putting now. It's true that Suzuki is not putting real effort from years, so it may be a isolated case.
Anyway, i see in the future the japanese going back and Ktm selling each year more bikes.
I have always been a japanese guy, but my next bike is going to be a Ktm 99%.
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Indian_Dunes_4ever 4/30/2020 11:04am
4/30/2020 11:04am Edited Date/Time 4/30/2020 11:24am
Travis_Hudson wrote:
I sure hope they don't go away.
As far as ICE equipped bikes....It's not a matter of IF...but WHEN.

The younger generation wants electric vehicles (...and have little interest in dirt bikes at all). The younger generation refer to ICE performance cars as "smokers" (nevermind that we lovingly refer to 2 strokes as smokers)...for them it's not a term of endearment.

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ge217
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ge217 4/30/2020 11:11am
4/30/2020 11:11am
deadlo wrote:
Are any of those guys currently competing on a suzuki???? No. Has suzuki changed anything about their bike since then, lol, barely.
A totally different 450. Go ahead, I’ll wait for you to tell me what “barely” changed consists of... It’s a completely different chassis an engine package .
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ge217
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ge217 4/30/2020 11:18am
4/30/2020 11:18am
Falcon wrote:
We need a little clarification here.... did Suzuki Motor Corporation drop its R&D department in Japan? I have my doubts about that. What I think actually...
We need a little clarification here.... did Suzuki Motor Corporation drop its R&D department in Japan? I have my doubts about that.

What I think actually happened is that Suzuki Motor of America dropped their R&D department. You guys do know that SMAI does not design and update the motocross models, right? The most they ever did was help Japan with tweaks for the American market. These are the guys who put an RM125 engine in an RM-Z250 frame and tried to get Japan to notice.

Suzuki may be in trouble in the MX market, but I don't think this is a significant change to that situation either way.
racinstation wrote:
My exact thoughts. I don't think R&D has stopped. I just think some fat has been trimmed.
People just don’t understand. They don’t get that the japs come in and clean house every now and then. Suzuki swapped Presidents out here in America not to long ago. He was sent here for a reason, to review everything presented to him, make changes as he feels need to be made, fire and hire who he wants...
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MZ193
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MZ193 4/30/2020 11:22am
4/30/2020 11:22am
Falcon wrote:
We need a little clarification here.... did Suzuki Motor Corporation drop its R&D department in Japan? I have my doubts about that. What I think actually...
We need a little clarification here.... did Suzuki Motor Corporation drop its R&D department in Japan? I have my doubts about that.

What I think actually happened is that Suzuki Motor of America dropped their R&D department. You guys do know that SMAI does not design and update the motocross models, right? The most they ever did was help Japan with tweaks for the American market. These are the guys who put an RM125 engine in an RM-Z250 frame and tried to get Japan to notice.

Suzuki may be in trouble in the MX market, but I don't think this is a significant change to that situation either way.
racinstation wrote:
My exact thoughts. I don't think R&D has stopped. I just think some fat has been trimmed.
ge217 wrote:
People just don’t understand. They don’t get that the japs come in and clean house every now and then. Suzuki swapped Presidents out here in America...
People just don’t understand. They don’t get that the japs come in and clean house every now and then. Suzuki swapped Presidents out here in America not to long ago. He was sent here for a reason, to review everything presented to him, make changes as he feels need to be made, fire and hire who he wants...
Great to know.
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deadlo
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deadlo 4/30/2020 11:25am
4/30/2020 11:25am
deadlo wrote:
Are any of those guys currently competing on a suzuki???? No. Has suzuki changed anything about their bike since then, lol, barely.
ge217 wrote:
A totally different 450. Go ahead, I’ll wait for you to tell me what “barely” changed consists of... It’s a completely different chassis an engine package...
A totally different 450. Go ahead, I’ll wait for you to tell me what “barely” changed consists of... It’s a completely different chassis an engine package .
That was sarcasm bud. And you actually help prove my point that bringing up Ricky, chad, dungey, stew, roczen riding a suzuki does not prove at all that the current rmz is any good. Those guys could have rode a bicycle in their hayday anyway and still won.

The suzuki they “updated” was the worst of the bikes since it came out. I am aware there are some upgrades that can be done to make it good, but has suzuki made any of those changes to the bike since then? Nah not really. And once you make those upgrades to have the bike as good as the others, how much money have you actually spent on a bike that will still weigh more with a kickstart.

Every suzuki thread past champs get brought up and I literally have no clue why. “The current suzuki they keep putting out sucks” “but but but if it sucks then how did Ricky win on a suzuki”. Lmao shut up
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Markee
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Markee 4/30/2020 12:18pm
4/30/2020 12:18pm
Markee wrote:
Ride what you want and shut the fuck up about it. All this "spoke with my wallet" "spoke with my wife's change purse" "spoke with my...
Ride what you want and shut the fuck up about it. All this "spoke with my wallet" "spoke with my wife's change purse" "spoke with my grandmothers hope chest".... You want attention for your purchase, we get it.

You want a smoker? KTM makes some of the best ones ever made, go buy it. Living in the past all the damn time with some manufacture color that holds a special place in your heart. Give me a break. Other than Alta shutting down, there is any flavor of bike out there for you to purchase, enjoy and suck wind on in 1 lap. R&D your life together.
BobPA wrote:
Markee have a Snickers dude. You're an insufferable douche bag when you are hungry.... Although it seems you may just be a waste of air in...
Markee have a Snickers dude. You're an insufferable douche bag when you are hungry....

Although it seems you may just be a waste of air in general after that gem.

Hey, you are my worst fan, but I adore you.
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colintrax
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colintrax 4/30/2020 12:21pm
4/30/2020 12:21pm
MZ193 wrote:
Each weekend i do 120/140 kilometers to go to tracks, about 80/90 miles. I think that as i do it, everybody will, if necessary. A lot...
Each weekend i do 120/140 kilometers to go to tracks, about 80/90 miles.
I think that as i do it, everybody will, if necessary.
A lot of swiss/german riders come to italy each weekend, which means 300/400 kilometers.
So if it will be necessary i will go in the middle of nowhere to ride.
Not handy but still...
80-90 miles is about 2 hours of driving, each way. That's 4 hours of just driving. How you do that every weekend is beyond me. I drive 45 minutes and wish it was closer. Gas ain't cheap.. well it is right now but I'd rather not give my money to the gas pump anyways.

And even in the middle of nowhere noise concerns are a thing. A 450 bouncing off the rev limiter is LOUD and it travels far. Need several thousand acres to effectively not worry about neighbors bitching. Which BTW, in rural America. Pissed off neighbors arent inclined to call the police. They'll just burn your shit down in the middle of the night.
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MXer391
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MXer391 4/30/2020 12:22pm
4/30/2020 12:22pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2020 12:23pm
Falcon wrote:
We need a little clarification here.... did Suzuki Motor Corporation drop its R&D department in Japan? I have my doubts about that. What I think actually...
We need a little clarification here.... did Suzuki Motor Corporation drop its R&D department in Japan? I have my doubts about that.

What I think actually happened is that Suzuki Motor of America dropped their R&D department. You guys do know that SMAI does not design and update the motocross models, right? The most they ever did was help Japan with tweaks for the American market. These are the guys who put an RM125 engine in an RM-Z250 frame and tried to get Japan to notice.

Suzuki may be in trouble in the MX market, but I don't think this is a significant change to that situation either way.
This ^^^^. Suzuki also cuts ties with Yoshimura USA recently for their superbike team and everyone went crazy. Suzuki recently had to pull some other their motorcycles from the Indian market because they wouldn't pass new emissions. I was browsing the article and saw that it was only a few models and a small market sale but then read that they sold 790,000 bikes last year in India alone. 790,000!!! You think they are worried about a couple jerks on the internet crying about electric start in the RM-Zs??? I wish they would update their MX bikes and make a side x side (They already did about 10 years ago that never went into production btw) but that's just not where their company is focused. They want to sell cheap cars, cheap motorcycles, and outboards. I'm just glad some people buy their bikes and reap the benefits of their excellent racing contingency.
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yz133rider
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yz133rider 4/30/2020 12:26pm
4/30/2020 12:26pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2020 12:26pm
MZ193 wrote:
Each weekend i do 120/140 kilometers to go to tracks, about 80/90 miles. I think that as i do it, everybody will, if necessary. A lot...
Each weekend i do 120/140 kilometers to go to tracks, about 80/90 miles.
I think that as i do it, everybody will, if necessary.
A lot of swiss/german riders come to italy each weekend, which means 300/400 kilometers.
So if it will be necessary i will go in the middle of nowhere to ride.
Not handy but still...
colintrax wrote:
80-90 miles is about 2 hours of driving, each way. That's 4 hours of just driving. How you do that every weekend is beyond me. I...
80-90 miles is about 2 hours of driving, each way. That's 4 hours of just driving. How you do that every weekend is beyond me. I drive 45 minutes and wish it was closer. Gas ain't cheap.. well it is right now but I'd rather not give my money to the gas pump anyways.

And even in the middle of nowhere noise concerns are a thing. A 450 bouncing off the rev limiter is LOUD and it travels far. Need several thousand acres to effectively not worry about neighbors bitching. Which BTW, in rural America. Pissed off neighbors arent inclined to call the police. They'll just burn your shit down in the middle of the night.
Lmao you're absolutely spoiled. You dont realize how good you have it. I drive 230 miles each way to ride something worth while. 3.5 hrs each way.
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Mossy
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Mossy 4/30/2020 12:30pm
4/30/2020 12:30pm
All I know if the Suzuki brand could really be revamped if they made some new 125 and 250 2 strokes. The best looking 2 strokes we would have to date. I for sure would buy a 125 to bring out every now and then Cool

Pretty sure this is Alex Ray ripping this Rm125...I mean who wouldn’t buy this? WoohooCool


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yz133rider
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yz133rider 4/30/2020 12:33pm
4/30/2020 12:33pm
Mossy wrote:
All I know if the Suzuki brand could really be revamped if they made some new 125 and 250 2 strokes. The best looking 2 strokes...
All I know if the Suzuki brand could really be revamped if they made some new 125 and 250 2 strokes. The best looking 2 strokes we would have to date. I for sure would buy a 125 to bring out every now and then Cool

Pretty sure this is Alex Ray ripping this Rm125...I mean who wouldn’t buy this? WoohooCool


If it ended up being the slowest, heaviest and harshest 125 available it wouldnt sell for shit. So theyd have to nail it if they did bring it out.
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ge217
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ge217 4/30/2020 12:33pm
4/30/2020 12:33pm Edited Date/Time 4/30/2020 12:41pm
deadlo wrote:
That was sarcasm bud. And you actually help prove my point that bringing up Ricky, chad, dungey, stew, roczen riding a suzuki does not prove at...
That was sarcasm bud. And you actually help prove my point that bringing up Ricky, chad, dungey, stew, roczen riding a suzuki does not prove at all that the current rmz is any good. Those guys could have rode a bicycle in their hayday anyway and still won.

The suzuki they “updated” was the worst of the bikes since it came out. I am aware there are some upgrades that can be done to make it good, but has suzuki made any of those changes to the bike since then? Nah not really. And once you make those upgrades to have the bike as good as the others, how much money have you actually spent on a bike that will still weigh more with a kickstart.

Every suzuki thread past champs get brought up and I literally have no clue why. “The current suzuki they keep putting out sucks” “but but but if it sucks then how did Ricky win on a suzuki”. Lmao shut up
Double post
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ge217
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ge217 4/30/2020 12:40pm
4/30/2020 12:40pm
deadlo wrote:
That was sarcasm bud. And you actually help prove my point that bringing up Ricky, chad, dungey, stew, roczen riding a suzuki does not prove at...
That was sarcasm bud. And you actually help prove my point that bringing up Ricky, chad, dungey, stew, roczen riding a suzuki does not prove at all that the current rmz is any good. Those guys could have rode a bicycle in their hayday anyway and still won.

The suzuki they “updated” was the worst of the bikes since it came out. I am aware there are some upgrades that can be done to make it good, but has suzuki made any of those changes to the bike since then? Nah not really. And once you make those upgrades to have the bike as good as the others, how much money have you actually spent on a bike that will still weigh more with a kickstart.

Every suzuki thread past champs get brought up and I literally have no clue why. “The current suzuki they keep putting out sucks” “but but but if it sucks then how did Ricky win on a suzuki”. Lmao shut up
I race a Suzuki, have for the past two seasons. Came off a kx after 18 years. Did I ride my buddy’s bikes during that time, sure did. Rode the older gen rmz a bunch. The current 450 is wayyyy better. Only thing I change when I uncrate the bike is the rear shock, put a big gas tank on and a spark arrester for off road. I would change the shock anyways for A-kit rear sock or internals on any brand bike. Sure you could put a lowering link on it just like any other brand, that’s personal preference. I leave stock bars, grips, everything stock and run it. I also pull just about every start in off road my with out dated kicker bike...

Not one time have you heard me bring up those names who have raced the rmz450 professionally, nor will you. Those guys can make any bike great! The bike doesn’t suck though.
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Mr. Info
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Mr. Info 4/30/2020 12:48pm
4/30/2020 12:48pm
Looks like the Chinese OMOW Brand will be replacing Suzuki
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JAFO92
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JAFO92 4/30/2020 1:19pm
4/30/2020 1:19pm

MXer391 wrote: ,,,, but then read that they sold 790,000 bikes last year in India alone. 790,000!!! You think they are worried about a couple jerks on the internet crying about electric start in the RM-Zs???


Post of the week.

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kiwifan
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kiwifan 4/30/2020 1:23pm
4/30/2020 1:23pm
davistld01 wrote:
It is interesting that you still see a lot of yellow bikes on the line at local races, even in the intermediate and expert class, and...
It is interesting that you still see a lot of yellow bikes on the line at local races, even in the intermediate and expert class, and a lot of guys still do very well on them. Are they modded the hilt...mostly, but they're winning on them.
BobPA wrote:
Not around here.
Same here very very few around where I race/practice

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mxtech1
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mxtech1 4/30/2020 1:32pm
4/30/2020 1:32pm
Eliminating north american R&D saves the corporation money. Typically, the money saved will stay within the overall R&D budget which can be re-allocated to do different things like develop motorcycles instead of paying overhead expenses.

Production sales fund R&D. Low sale volumes = less overall R&D spend.

So, two options
1) they are trimming overhead expense to free up money to maintain (& potentially increase) R&D in other areas
2) Profits are worse than what we believe and they are cutting expenses to DECREASE overall R&D spend
colintrax
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colintrax 4/30/2020 1:39pm
4/30/2020 1:39pm
yz133rider wrote:
Lmao you're absolutely spoiled. You dont realize how good you have it. I drive 230 miles each way to ride something worth while. 3.5 hrs each...
Lmao you're absolutely spoiled. You dont realize how good you have it. I drive 230 miles each way to ride something worth while. 3.5 hrs each way.
Spoiled or reasonable? 7 hours of driving every weekend, just to go ride? Come on now, you know that's ridiculous. I'll do a 7 hour round trip a few times a year. And I'll camp out, make a weekend out of it. Anything more than an hour makes the mountain bike look real good.
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