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Joined
11/28/2017
Location
Denver, CO
US
I am having a little bit of issues with one of my bikes. I have never really messed with suspension much and kind of just rode my bikes. My bike in question is a 03 rm 250. I went ahead and changed the front and rear springs for my weight based on race tech spring rate search. I set my sag to something close, and thought I set everything to pretty much stock. I have a few questions about how I should go about testing and what some issues I am facing.
With sag, and also goes for HSC on the shock it gives a pretty big range 95mm-105mm and 3/4-1 1/4 turns out. How do you choose a good starting point? Do you just start in the middle of every range they give you for stock settings?
Second issue, I rode a track after I did the work and I felt it worked really well. But this track has really well built jumps with good faces and landings that are really smooth with plenty of landing space, also the track usually gets bigger wider spaced braking bumps if it gets any. The bike seemed to do really well and I liked it.
So couple weeks later I took the bike out to a different track and they have dumped a ton of sand and they are working on it getting mixed in. I would say they are about half way from actually getting it mixed in. We also showed up at 1 in the afternoon so when we go there the track had little washboard like stutter bumps everywhere around the whole track. This track also has poorly made jumps. Flat ish faces and really flat short landings which make for very hard not smooth landings.
My two issues I had, first was with the stutter bumps, it felt like riding on a jack hammer around the whole track. Felt like my forks were not moving. But I don't actually know if I am way too stiff or if I'm riding around the track blow through the stroke and I'm almost bottomed out everywhere and that's why it hurts so much. Does anybody know how to tell this? Maybe have somebody watch? Second fork Issue is when landing hard off these poorly made jumps I tend to land a little rear wheel first and it feels so hard a couple times my hand was so close to coming off the bar. I have done these same jumps the same way on one of my other bikes even my 03 yz125 which has basically the same kyb forks and it does not feel like this. This maybe makes me think it is too stiff?
Second issue is with the shock when seat bouncing some jumps that I always seat bounce on other bikes and on this one before I did the work on it I was fine. Now I am getting kicked a bit. I feel like it is my rebound could be slowed down a tad but also was also wondering if my HSC is too much not allowing the bike to squat enough so I come off rear end high. I am sitting almost on the tank when I do this and usually I can sit on the back on this jump and be fine.
I guess the only way is to go out and start playing with settings but I wanted to know from you guys maybe some good things to try or how to start with or maybe my symptoms says something.
Thanks
With sag, and also goes for HSC on the shock it gives a pretty big range 95mm-105mm and 3/4-1 1/4 turns out. How do you choose a good starting point? Do you just start in the middle of every range they give you for stock settings?
Second issue, I rode a track after I did the work and I felt it worked really well. But this track has really well built jumps with good faces and landings that are really smooth with plenty of landing space, also the track usually gets bigger wider spaced braking bumps if it gets any. The bike seemed to do really well and I liked it.
So couple weeks later I took the bike out to a different track and they have dumped a ton of sand and they are working on it getting mixed in. I would say they are about half way from actually getting it mixed in. We also showed up at 1 in the afternoon so when we go there the track had little washboard like stutter bumps everywhere around the whole track. This track also has poorly made jumps. Flat ish faces and really flat short landings which make for very hard not smooth landings.
My two issues I had, first was with the stutter bumps, it felt like riding on a jack hammer around the whole track. Felt like my forks were not moving. But I don't actually know if I am way too stiff or if I'm riding around the track blow through the stroke and I'm almost bottomed out everywhere and that's why it hurts so much. Does anybody know how to tell this? Maybe have somebody watch? Second fork Issue is when landing hard off these poorly made jumps I tend to land a little rear wheel first and it feels so hard a couple times my hand was so close to coming off the bar. I have done these same jumps the same way on one of my other bikes even my 03 yz125 which has basically the same kyb forks and it does not feel like this. This maybe makes me think it is too stiff?
Second issue is with the shock when seat bouncing some jumps that I always seat bounce on other bikes and on this one before I did the work on it I was fine. Now I am getting kicked a bit. I feel like it is my rebound could be slowed down a tad but also was also wondering if my HSC is too much not allowing the bike to squat enough so I come off rear end high. I am sitting almost on the tank when I do this and usually I can sit on the back on this jump and be fine.
I guess the only way is to go out and start playing with settings but I wanted to know from you guys maybe some good things to try or how to start with or maybe my symptoms says something.
Thanks
For the shock, HSC only effects your squat a little bit. LSC is really what effects your bike squatting on acceleration. HSC is mainly for square edge and choppy stuff, and hard landings, and possibly steep takeoffs. Unless you have no oil in the shock, rebound damping isn't going to cause your bike to want to frontflip. Chances are you are bottoming out the shock when seat bouncing and its deflecting. Try going stiffer on LSC.
In both cases. you should just spend a day at the track trying out different clicker settings and taking notes on what you like. Start in the middle, go ride a few laps. Then go drastically in one direction and go ride again. Take note of how it feels. Then go drastically in the other direction and see how it feels. Then you can take what you've learned and dial them in closer towards the direction you feel more comfortable.
Suspension adjustments:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/rocky-mountain-atv-mc-keefer-tested…
How to Test:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/rocky-mountain-atv-mc-keefer-tested…
Georgie I cant afford a suspension guy haha, If I could I would be on a new yz 250 and would not have these problems like I do on my 03. I don't know anybody who knows suspension. I actually would like somebody to mess my settings up and see if I even notice. Usually I just ride the bike. And don't really notice stuff when changed. Had a shop do a revalve on an old bike once and could not tell. Got an over sized front rotor on my 450 and cant tell a difference. Really I'm only picky about my bars and levers, which makes me wonder how bad my bike is that it seems really bad compared to my other bikes.
Carlino I have listened to the keefer suspension clicker podcast and it is really good. But as he says in a lot of the situations it could be too hard or too soft. My problem is figuring out which one. Also the rear effects the front and front effects the rear. So maybe my rear is set up bad and its why my front feels bad but I could be chasing my tail by trying to only mess with the front.
Usually I don't worry about stuff and just ride but it feels a bit dangerous right now with almost knocking my hands off and some kicking when hitting jumps so I figured I should try to figure it out. I am just out there to have fun it is only a 03 250 if I wanna go fast ill get on my 450, it feels great.
The Shop
When you set the sag did you check the static sag? This helps determine if you truly have the correct spring rate.
Your goal is to 1) have the correct spring rate on the shock so that you can set the sag (and have the static sag in check). 2) adjust the forks so that the front and rear balance. If the bike doesn't feel biased (front end high or front end low) when riding it around normally then you're probably pretty close.
The valving is stock as far as I know in that I have never messed with it. It had stock springs in it before so it was all probably stock.
Pit Row
Shock
Reb 9
Hsc 1 turn out
Comp 8
Fork
Reb 10
Comp 10
I'm 180lbs intermediate and really like the stock .44 fork springs with a 5.0 spring in my 2008 RM250.
Check the static sag figure and report back, you should be aiming for around 30/35mm with 100-105mm rider sag.
I've found Race Tech to air on the stiffer side with their spring rate recommendations.
Your current settings seem a little stiff and could well be the cause of your issues.
If it was me I'd try the following:
Shock
Reb 8
Hsc 1 3/4 turn out
Comp 12/14
Fork
Reb 10
Comp 14/16
Use a zip tie to monitor fork travel. You may find you can come out even softer on the compression to 18 or 20 out with the 0.46 springs. Alternatively, reducing the oil qty in the forks helps to soften them, particularly in the 2nd half of the stroke.
Also check the stock springs and racetech springs are the same length. If the racetech springs are longer you may have too much pre load on them
I’ll go out and do some testing. I will also check my fork height.
I don’t have any friends who know anything at all about watching somebodies suspension. I don’t even trust him to do an air filter by himself so I will get some video.
Just wondering stock says like comp 10 and reb 12 if I went to comp 14 do I need to make rebound 15-16?
Thanks for all the help. I will probably be back on in 2 weeks when I get home and can go ride again
However, I'd still recommend putting a zip tie on a fork leg and checking your travel usage. The different linkage on the 03 may warrant the stiffer rear spring. But in terms of forks, you generally don't see much variation in spring rate between fork brands.
I have never ridden the 03 KYB fork so cannot comment on its performance, but I'm sure its a perfectly decent fork. I'd agree it seems extreme to switch to newer Showas.
The compression and rebound adjustments are totally independent and don't need to be adjusted together. So yes, you can do whatever adjustments you want to the compression, and not need to touch the rebound (and vice versa)
I did hear Keefer say when you go stiffer compression by day two clicks you should probably open up the rebound one click. I’m guessing open means out so it has less damping so it springs back faster
Stiffened the forks up and they seem better most of the time. They seem better on the first 1/4 ish of the stroke but kinda hard through the mid and soft on the bottom maybe. If you land a jump wrong it sucks. If you hit breaking bumps pretty hard it can be kinda harsh.
The forks would be at
8 comp
10 reb
110mm 5w oil ( stock says 150mm-110mm) race tech says 110mm. Some people said to lower oil height to get rid of mid stroke harshness but how can you get more bottoming resistance? Do I just need to revalve?
The shock was really funky.
Went out with
8 comp
9 reb
1 3/4 hsp
the rear kinda felt high and springy like it wont stay squatted.
then I tried
10 comp
7 reb
1 1/2 hsc
and was maybe a little better but then figured I needed to mess with sag. Some guys next to me helped me out and actually had a sag scale. I had set it with under an hr of ride time with a tape measure at 100mm. It was at 114mm WTF! So I changed it to 104 and rode and it was a lot better but not perfect but was ride able now. Not sure how I was that far off. I went home and ordered a sag scale that day.
I would maybe like the rear end to squat a touch more and stay down on the face of a jump. Hitting one jump with a smooth not steep face sitting down when I first get on the face it kinda rebounds my butt off the seat and I cant stay down on the seat. My 450 just stays smooth and squatted the entire face.
Any ideas on what I should try?
Wondering if the race tech gold valves would be a good option for me?
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