Supermini's a big hit. Why not have them in SX?

Johnny Depp
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10/16/2017 1:41pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2017 3:43pm
I'm serious. Maybe not exotic superminis, but 85's. Kid's are in school, so national or regional would not be realistic, but how about 1 shot under the lights per rider. 1 entry per season. Cut the track if need be so Doc Bodnar isn't running out of leg splints. The entertainment factor is top notch.
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526
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10/16/2017 1:44pm
Let's keep them UN injured as long as we can !!!!
Jamal#440
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10/16/2017 1:47pm
Yes exotic Super-minis would work. One of the best SX races I've seen besides Anaheim 86 was Pontiac 87 amateur day. It was two Team Green riders on DMC KX100s. They diced for the lead the whole race from start to finish.
ML512
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10/16/2017 1:51pm
I'm serious. Maybe not exotic superminis, but 85's. Kid's are in school, so national or regional would not be realistic, but how about 1 shot under...
I'm serious. Maybe not exotic superminis, but 85's. Kid's are in school, so national or regional would not be realistic, but how about 1 shot under the lights per rider. 1 entry per season. Cut the track if need be so Doc Bodnar isn't running out of leg splints. The entertainment factor is top notch.
Normal Supercross tracks during the season are more dangerous from lane-to-lane and has less run in per obstacle...the Superminis would be jumping much less or get hurt trying. Second, those were the best 20 kids in the nation...if you did one entry per season you'd run out of talent really quickly. Many kids don't have access to the tracks to practice on either.

The Shop

EZZA 95B
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10/16/2017 2:07pm
Supercross here in the '90's had 80's, Junior 125's, and C grade 125/250.
The the tracks were obviously not like the current tracks but the jumps were always friggen huge.

Stephen Gall would do a Supercross school on the Friday (which most used for track time) and would allow you to get your Supercross endorsement. They were given to pretty much every kid and Gumby that turned up.

It was carnage all weekend.Dizzy
mattyhamz2
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10/16/2017 2:13pm
526 wrote:
Let's keep them UN injured as long as we can !!!!
x2.
Johnny Depp
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10/16/2017 2:14pm
The logic for injuries isn't there. KTM 50's or OK, Supermini's are OK, but 85's fall into the danger zone?
Again cut out sections if needed, just like the 50's. There would be Dad's cashing in their retirement plans to get their kids in the show. Full gates would be the least of the problems. It's not about the talent level (which I'm sure would still shame all the Vets in the stands) or the engine size being big enough to clear jumps. It's about the close competition and rider's giving it their all.


mattyhamz2
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10/16/2017 2:17pm
The logic for injuries isn't there. KTM 50's or OK, Supermini's are OK, but 85's fall into the danger zone? Again cut out sections if needed...
The logic for injuries isn't there. KTM 50's or OK, Supermini's are OK, but 85's fall into the danger zone?
Again cut out sections if needed, just like the 50's. There would be Dad's cashing in their retirement plans to get their kids in the show. Full gates would be the least of the problems. It's not about the talent level (which I'm sure would still shame all the Vets in the stands) or the engine size being big enough to clear jumps. It's about the close competition and rider's giving it their all.


Difference is that the 50's aren't trying to jump things. For the most part, they roll everything.

I don't see anyone saying Supermini's are ok but 85's are not. Regular supercross track is totally different from the MEC track. I say no to anything other than the KTM JRSC and the big boys in supercross
ML512
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10/16/2017 2:18pm
The logic for injuries isn't there. KTM 50's or OK, Supermini's are OK, but 85's fall into the danger zone? Again cut out sections if needed...
The logic for injuries isn't there. KTM 50's or OK, Supermini's are OK, but 85's fall into the danger zone?
Again cut out sections if needed, just like the 50's. There would be Dad's cashing in their retirement plans to get their kids in the show. Full gates would be the least of the problems. It's not about the talent level (which I'm sure would still shame all the Vets in the stands) or the engine size being big enough to clear jumps. It's about the close competition and rider's giving it their all.


I'm leaning more towards skill level and safety being the problem here...
kzizok
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10/16/2017 2:20pm
Let me know when big bike SX is a good idea.
Charper732
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10/16/2017 2:25pm Edited Date/Time 10/16/2017 2:26pm
The logic for injuries isn't there. KTM 50's or OK, Supermini's are OK, but 85's fall into the danger zone? Again cut out sections if needed...
The logic for injuries isn't there. KTM 50's or OK, Supermini's are OK, but 85's fall into the danger zone?
Again cut out sections if needed, just like the 50's. There would be Dad's cashing in their retirement plans to get their kids in the show. Full gates would be the least of the problems. It's not about the talent level (which I'm sure would still shame all the Vets in the stands) or the engine size being big enough to clear jumps. It's about the close competition and rider's giving it their all.


ML512 wrote:
I'm leaning more towards skill level and safety being the problem here...
85's are def. in the danger zone. Let a few kids hit the deck on national TV and it'll be a wrap. No one wants to see kids get hurt on that level. Mistakes are costly in supercross.
731chopper
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10/16/2017 2:26pm
The logic for injuries isn't there. KTM 50's or OK, Supermini's are OK, but 85's fall into the danger zone? Again cut out sections if needed...
The logic for injuries isn't there. KTM 50's or OK, Supermini's are OK, but 85's fall into the danger zone?
Again cut out sections if needed, just like the 50's. There would be Dad's cashing in their retirement plans to get their kids in the show. Full gates would be the least of the problems. It's not about the talent level (which I'm sure would still shame all the Vets in the stands) or the engine size being big enough to clear jumps. It's about the close competition and rider's giving it their all.


It's about watching professionals, not amateur little Johnny forced out there by his dad, snapping his femur.
Johnny Depp
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10/16/2017 2:34pm Edited Date/Time 10/16/2017 2:35pm
kzizok wrote:
Let me know when big bike SX is a good idea.
Like we saw in Vegas, If there are 3 mains (what happened to the supposed announcement?) there needs to be time to rest in between, would they run 3 250 moto's also so less fillers are needed? That would be 6 big bike races.

There is already a KTM 50 program announced to fill 1, let's assume that same track layout could be adapted for 85's. Now where's the big danger? Cut out the whoops and maybe the bigger jumps and let the show begin.

If you are Feld (a promoter) you'd have to be stupid not to recognize that year after year the Mini's in Vegas put on the best show and the crowd loves the 2 strokes screaming their guts out. Give them what they want and grow the attendance for sure. The new mini's racer's and their families would for sure fill some seats. As far as talent goes, anyone that hasn't had a minibike go smoking by them on the track is a Pro or a liar.
ML512
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10/16/2017 2:39pm
kzizok wrote:
Let me know when big bike SX is a good idea.
Like we saw in Vegas, If there are 3 mains (what happened to the supposed announcement?) there needs to be time to rest in between, would...
Like we saw in Vegas, If there are 3 mains (what happened to the supposed announcement?) there needs to be time to rest in between, would they run 3 250 moto's also so less fillers are needed? That would be 6 big bike races.

There is already a KTM 50 program announced to fill 1, let's assume that same track layout could be adapted for 85's. Now where's the big danger? Cut out the whoops and maybe the bigger jumps and let the show begin.

If you are Feld (a promoter) you'd have to be stupid not to recognize that year after year the Mini's in Vegas put on the best show and the crowd loves the 2 strokes screaming their guts out. Give them what they want and grow the attendance for sure. The new mini's racer's and their families would for sure fill some seats. As far as talent goes, anyone that hasn't had a minibike go smoking by them on the track is a Pro or a liar.
Still picturing the Supermini rider being hauled off with a halo on this past weekend...

You're going to end up with kids hurt every weekend...that will not go over well. Having adult professionals that are racing for money getting hurt at every Supercross round is one thing...but young kids getting hauled off at every event is another thing all together, and won't go over well.
mattyhamz2
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10/16/2017 2:44pm
kzizok wrote:
Let me know when big bike SX is a good idea.
Like we saw in Vegas, If there are 3 mains (what happened to the supposed announcement?) there needs to be time to rest in between, would...
Like we saw in Vegas, If there are 3 mains (what happened to the supposed announcement?) there needs to be time to rest in between, would they run 3 250 moto's also so less fillers are needed? That would be 6 big bike races.

There is already a KTM 50 program announced to fill 1, let's assume that same track layout could be adapted for 85's. Now where's the big danger? Cut out the whoops and maybe the bigger jumps and let the show begin.

If you are Feld (a promoter) you'd have to be stupid not to recognize that year after year the Mini's in Vegas put on the best show and the crowd loves the 2 strokes screaming their guts out. Give them what they want and grow the attendance for sure. The new mini's racer's and their families would for sure fill some seats. As far as talent goes, anyone that hasn't had a minibike go smoking by them on the track is a Pro or a liar.
ML512 wrote:
Still picturing the Supermini rider being hauled off with a halo on this past weekend... You're going to end up with kids hurt every weekend...that will...
Still picturing the Supermini rider being hauled off with a halo on this past weekend...

You're going to end up with kids hurt every weekend...that will not go over well. Having adult professionals that are racing for money getting hurt at every Supercross round is one thing...but young kids getting hauled off at every event is another thing all together, and won't go over well.
Agreed.

Not only that, but if you tried removing some of the track for the superminis, you'd be left with a few corners, the finish line and maybe 1-2 sections. What fun would that be?
Falcon
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10/16/2017 2:50pm
I'd endorse it for top-level Supermini riders if the tracks were a little more tame.
Johnny Depp
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10/16/2017 2:51pm
Way too much wussification in here. This is the age of extreme sports, kids in Xgames jumping bicycles and skateboards to obscene heights and distances while doing spins and flips. Kids in team sports getting injured in droves. If you don't want your kid involved no problem, get a ticket. You can make the track as easy or hard as you want, but to think that kids can't handle it is selling them short.
agn5009
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10/16/2017 2:56pm
No. Just no. This is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
ML512
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10/16/2017 2:57pm
Way too much wussification in here. This is the age of extreme sports, kids in Xgames jumping bicycles and skateboards to obscene heights and distances while...
Way too much wussification in here. This is the age of extreme sports, kids in Xgames jumping bicycles and skateboards to obscene heights and distances while doing spins and flips. Kids in team sports getting injured in droves. If you don't want your kid involved no problem, get a ticket. You can make the track as easy or hard as you want, but to think that kids can't handle it is selling them short.
Forgive us for thinking about the well-being of some kids who don't have the access to the equipment, training time, or years of experience compared to the real pros out there who eff themselves up every single weekend on those tracks...who also don't have some mini-dad breathing down there neck and pushing them into it.

It's all about the show, who cares about the kids and their well-being. The injury level that riders like Ken Roczen and Ryan Villopoto faced, along with many others, were near career ending and financially crippling if they hadn't made millions already. Sure, let's send these kids out there and see what happens when they end up with these high-level injuries and the financial burden that will come with it, let alone the emotional toll and their questionable future within the sport.
731chopper
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10/16/2017 3:00pm
Way too much wussification in here. This is the age of extreme sports, kids in Xgames jumping bicycles and skateboards to obscene heights and distances while...
Way too much wussification in here. This is the age of extreme sports, kids in Xgames jumping bicycles and skateboards to obscene heights and distances while doing spins and flips. Kids in team sports getting injured in droves. If you don't want your kid involved no problem, get a ticket. You can make the track as easy or hard as you want, but to think that kids can't handle it is selling them short.
I don't know who you are (maybe we've run into each other if you really are from Texas) so maybe the answer is yes but have you ever stepped foot on a modern Supercross track? Amateur kids have no business out there. The 50 race is a novelty and can't be compared to 85s.
haydos25
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10/16/2017 3:05pm
EZZA 95B wrote:
Supercross here in the '90's had 80's, Junior 125's, and C grade 125/250. The the tracks were obviously not like the current tracks but the jumps...
Supercross here in the '90's had 80's, Junior 125's, and C grade 125/250.
The the tracks were obviously not like the current tracks but the jumps were always friggen huge.

Stephen Gall would do a Supercross school on the Friday (which most used for track time) and would allow you to get your Supercross endorsement. They were given to pretty much every kid and Gumby that turned up.

It was carnage all weekend.Dizzy
It was definitely carnage, and more than a couple kids were carted off, it was also an amazing opportunity for kids to get there legs under them.

Chad Reed, Michael Byrne, Brett Metcalfe, the Mossy's, the Marmonts, Craig Anderson All came through the supercross masters juniors. I don't think anybody would argue that we have seen the same supercross and skills in our up and comers since those guys.

Those tracks however were basically carbon copies of current arenacross tracks, I don't think the full blow US outdoor tracks is the place to set these kids loose however. I've tried to walk tracks before, its a lot more scary up close than it is from the comfort of our lounges.
10/16/2017 3:08pm Edited Date/Time 10/16/2017 3:08pm
I'd argue that one of this sport's biggest problems is too much financial attention is already focused on amateur children and development classes comparative to the size of the top level classes.
Bearuno
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10/16/2017 3:17pm
I've come to believe that with the (supposedly) ever increasing viewership of SX, peoples actual riding 'uptake' from it is cancelled out by the carnage spectators see in it. As in, families being fine and dandy with being entertained by the 'Gladiators', that they largely watch for the crashing etc, but going "f**k no, my little Johnny is never getting on a Motorcycle, Ever".

It's bad enough with Adults (and some barely that - either chronologically or mental age) getting hurt - throw in 'Kids' getting sacrificed to the Lions, and well, things would not be good.

As much as I like seeing the KTM Juniors out there, I fear the day that one of the little takkers get stretchered off with series injuries. I don't think it's happened yet? You can bet your arse that the Media and Powers That Be, will have a field day if that ever happens.
Johnny Depp
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10/16/2017 3:21pm
So MEC was originally set up as a 1 off race with a chance to try out different things and see what worked. It seems like they would have to notice the biggest success has been the kids.

Somehow it's OK to let the kid's risk life and limb at Loretta's and at local races and Ponca, the GNC's of Jerry Surber days etc., but don't let the public see our dirty secret? We let kids ride in extreme sports! Be proud of it!

We used to blow the wheels out of Schwinn lemon peeler's bicycles jumping ditches back in the day with no gear at all. At least a few kids got killed riding our local practice area. That didn't stop my love for the sport nor make me quit.
731chopper
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10/16/2017 3:27pm
So MEC was originally set up as a 1 off race with a chance to try out different things and see what worked. It seems like...
So MEC was originally set up as a 1 off race with a chance to try out different things and see what worked. It seems like they would have to notice the biggest success has been the kids.

Somehow it's OK to let the kid's risk life and limb at Loretta's and at local races and Ponca, the GNC's of Jerry Surber days etc., but don't let the public see our dirty secret? We let kids ride in extreme sports! Be proud of it!

We used to blow the wheels out of Schwinn lemon peeler's bicycles jumping ditches back in the day with no gear at all. At least a few kids got killed riding our local practice area. That didn't stop my love for the sport nor make me quit.
You're comparing apples to oranges and not giving proper respect to the difficulty of a Supercross track.
GuyB
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10/16/2017 3:28pm Edited Date/Time 10/16/2017 3:29pm
While the MEC is Supercrossish, it's still missing full on SX whoops. That adds a whole different element.

At the SX races, the KJSC kids roll the whoops. Brap, brap, brap...

I will say, that more and more of them do seem capable and prepped for this race than in the past.

From my vantage point, the biggest thing I see with the kids at in the Supermini (and even the Amateur All-Stars) is sometimes the pressure and excitement (combined with a whole bunch of adrenaline) lead to crashes. I'm okay with giving them more time to develop.
Johnny Depp
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10/16/2017 3:35pm
I find myself repeatedly repeating the same thing. The track can be adjusted. That is logistics.

The fact that every other thread went on and on about the mini's being the best happens year after year. If you are trying to fine tune your product, the show, how could you miss the gorilla in the room?
early
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10/16/2017 3:39pm
I find myself repeatedly repeating the same thing. The track can be adjusted. That is logistics. The fact that every other thread went on and on...
I find myself repeatedly repeating the same thing. The track can be adjusted. That is logistics.

The fact that every other thread went on and on about the mini's being the best happens year after year. If you are trying to fine tune your product, the show, how could you miss the gorilla in the room?
"I find myself repeatedly repeating the same thing."

Maybe learn how to take a hint?

BobPA
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10/16/2017 3:39pm
Way too much wussification in here. This is the age of extreme sports, kids in Xgames jumping bicycles and skateboards to obscene heights and distances while...
Way too much wussification in here. This is the age of extreme sports, kids in Xgames jumping bicycles and skateboards to obscene heights and distances while doing spins and flips. Kids in team sports getting injured in droves. If you don't want your kid involved no problem, get a ticket. You can make the track as easy or hard as you want, but to think that kids can't handle it is selling them short.
Dude, just quit while you are way behind. If you cannot see the difference between the danger of kids on 50's, compared to kids on full tilt super minis, on a real SX track, than you sir are very blind. Kids on 50's will not be trying to huck themselves through rhythm sections....
ML512
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10/16/2017 3:42pm Edited Date/Time 10/16/2017 3:44pm
I find myself repeatedly repeating the same thing. The track can be adjusted. That is logistics. The fact that every other thread went on and on...
I find myself repeatedly repeating the same thing. The track can be adjusted. That is logistics.

The fact that every other thread went on and on about the mini's being the best happens year after year. If you are trying to fine tune your product, the show, how could you miss the gorilla in the room?
How are you going to re-adjust the track? To keep things on schedule, we can't have any major track revisions. Going around the whoops is one thing, by changing where they go otherwise causes problems with lights, pyro, and rigging in between sections. Along with the fact if they cut a section by exiting or entering the track on the backside of jumps, it could wear the track oddly and create a danger for the pro classes that would land on those downsides, etc...

Leaving any full-size rhythm lanes for these guys or full sized triples are dangerous at these rider's skill level. I repeat what I said earlier, we have kids who are top 20 in the nation...who get time to actually train in SX tracks that still struggle and get hurt at MEC. You're not going to get that quality of rider at every round or riders that have access or will adjust their bikes for this round. How do you pick the field for these rounds too? There's not enough time in the day schedule to do qualifying for these kids at a normal SX round.

And as for your repeating...you've got pretty much every soul in this thread, some who have spent some serious time around these track, telling you this is a really...really bad idea.

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