'Struggling with bike setup all weekend' can no longer be a valid excuse.

It's never really been a very valid excuse to begin with.

It's just been an excuse.

aeffertz wrote:

Tired of this excuse from dudes who have been on the bike for over a year. Bro, if you can't find a setting on the factory bike you've been riding for multiple years, it ain't the bike.

If you do well one weekend and struggle the next on practically the same track, it ain't the bike.

If a GP dude can come over, run a completely new bike, with a different frame and tires than what he ever runs, and goes 1-1 (coming from dead last one moto) on the day... It ain't the bike.

Good point but lets not make the 3 trillionth thread about Herlings mopping up, we get it.

aeffertz wrote:

Tired of this excuse from dudes who have been on the bike for over a year. Bro, if you can't find a setting on the factory bike you've been riding for multiple years, it ain't the bike.

If you do well one weekend and struggle the next on practically the same track, it ain't the bike.

If a GP dude can come over, run a completely new bike, with a different frame and tires than what he ever runs, and goes 1-1 (coming from dead last one moto) on the day... It ain't the bike.

He was running his Pirelli's, as usual, all others leading riders on Dunlop.

Maybe Pirellis are really superior?!

I'd say he had his suspension settings. But setup always looks more superior on the Euro bikes. It takes a good team to do that.
Watch cairolis machine in that great ride through the field at his home race this year for a well setup bike

BRO, THE FUKIN SET UUUUPPPP

THE

SET

UPPPPPPPP

I'm not condoning the excuse but have you ever had your bike set up for where you live then drive 1,000-2,000 miles away to a different track with completely different dirt? The suspension settings are quite a bit different. Just going from So Cal to the NW makes me ride with clickers in different settings.

Even the magazines when they test the bike on the east coast want to bring them back to CA to get the feel of their home tracks.

It's always been about 95% rider and 5% bike. And that still holds true.

his bike setup was quite a bit different. soft. but the US guys don't like their bikes that way. so used to sx suspension

Wouldn't it make it a bit pointless having post race interviews?

TXDirt wrote:

It's always been about 95% rider and 5% bike. And that still holds true.

That's why Motocross is the best motorsport.

pretty sure in videos he said frame, suspension and tires were the same. changed some mapping for different fuel.
to make it feel like his gp bike.

smoothies862 wrote:

pretty sure in videos he said frame, suspension and tires were the same. changed some mapping for different fuel.
to make it feel like his gp bike.

Yeah but it's no secret they aren't running production frames in the GP's. Higher ups at KTM probably wouldn't like him saying how different his frame is at home compared to the one everyone can buy.

CarlinoJoeVideo wrote:

I'm not condoning the excuse but have you ever had your bike set up for where you live then drive 1,000-2,000 miles away to a different track with completely different dirt? The suspension settings are quite a bit different. Just going from So Cal to the NW makes me ride with clickers in different settings.

Even the magazines when they test the bike on the east coast want to bring them back to CA to get the feel of their home tracks.

That is extremely true Joe. Just up here in the NW....we have varying tracks and soils....and with me only being a vet rider , there are some big differences on setup. The tracks change dramatically through the day....and sometimes when those guys make a change...they go the wrong way.

We are also talking about riders who can tell the difference in a 5mm foot peg raise / lowerd and about 1000 other little thing most of us wouldn't.

It does for sure sound like a shitty excuse....but dang it man , going at those speeds , everything is noticeable.

Just saying.....

they have a long frame available. he uses the same one as here. this is what he/they said in interviews. either way its amazing how he rode. I don't care what bike he was on. another thing that blows me away is how fast pros can learn and hammer a track. takes me all day just to feel normal, lol.

Maybe setting his bike up is another thing Herlings is better at the the current US crop? That doesn't mean that the other guys are lying. Coming up with a good setting is part of the game these days, same as if they came in and said "I was struggling with my off camber corners today". Its part of the job, get better at it.

Blaming the bike is really an admission that they aren't very good at setting the bike up, still their fault, still in their control.

The other riders bikes looked like they were on SX suspension compared to Herlings. It seems riders get stuck in between SX and MX setups. Since Herlings doesn't ride sx.......

I bet the bike isn't that bad/different anyways. In reality, if Dungey and Musquinn are winning on it, then whatever difference there is can't be so huge that it's a turd compared to his bike.

His suspension setup looks way more compliant and active than any US based rider except for Kenny, that was the thing I saw and I bet that made more difference than any 1-2mm frame difference would make, especially on the great traction at Iron Man.

CarlinoJoeVideo wrote:

I'm not condoning the excuse but have you ever had your bike set up for where you live then drive 1,000-2,000 miles away to a different track with completely different dirt? The suspension settings are quite a bit different. Just going from So Cal to the NW makes me ride with clickers in different settings.

Even the magazines when they test the bike on the east coast want to bring them back to CA to get the feel of their home tracks.

jeffro503 wrote:

That is extremely true Joe. Just up here in the NW....we have varying tracks and soils....and with me only being a vet rider , there are some big differences on setup. The tracks change dramatically through the day....and sometimes when those guys make a change...they go the wrong way.

We are also talking about riders who can tell the difference in a 5mm foot peg raise / lowerd and about 1000 other little thing most of us wouldn't.

It does for sure sound like a shitty excuse....but dang it man , going at those speeds , everything is noticeable.

Just saying.....

Agree to a point.

But you know at the end of the day it's a dirt bike.

Too many riders get it in their head that somehow a half turn on the clickers is gonna make a difference. It's not.

Too many riders chase settings to the point they don't even know what the fuck they like. So when they under perform as a rider they just blame "settings".

I was not super picky on bike setup. Sure I like a certain set of bars, grips, and my levers in a certain position. Blah blah blah. When I was out on the test track with Bones I would pretty much go with what he said looked good. You are already in a zone setting wise and he can make a few fine adjustments. When you are wide open on a rough track you don't even notice a difference. You are already in a good zone setting wise. And this zone will work on most tracks in most conditions on most dirt types. You will notice a bigger difference just running the right tire for the right conditions then trying to fine tune yourself with minutiae. Think paralysis by analysis.

You can go ask Bones how many times riders chase settings and he will say to the rider he made a change when he really didn't. Rider goes out and says he likes the change even though Bones never even made a change!

It's all in the head man.

I never found this as a valid excuse nor do I find a brand of a bike a valid excuse, like every sport skill and good results come from a good mental place full of confidence and hunger.

Getting the bike "dailed in" basically means I lack confidence within myself.

I think its valid that there are racers out there who struggle to know how to setup a bike, therefore they are chasing setups constantly...then there are racers who know exactly how say one click on the shock impacts how the bike reacts etc and they always are comfortable on the bike.. then there are racers who may never have the perfect setup but ride through it and still win, it doesn't get in there heads that it isn't perfect

Man it's so hard to know whether setup is really an excuse or not. I mean on one hand you have situations like TXDirt mentioned where the tuner tells the rider he made a change when he really didn't and it's apparently better. But on the other hand you have situations like Chad Reed who can ride with the best of them when he's comfortable on his bike, but when he's not he's just a top 10 guy. There's also Tomac in SX who couldn't get out of his own way the first three rounds and then makes some changes and goes on a tear. I guess you can chock that up to being mental, I'm not sure but I kind of think if they aren't mentally comfortable with their setup some changes should be made.

TXDirt wrote:

It's always been about 95% rider and 5% bike. And that still holds true.

exactly ..

jorgechavez wrote:

Man it's so hard to know whether setup is really an excuse or not. I mean on one hand you have situations like TXDirt mentioned where the tuner tells the rider he made a change when he really didn't and it's apparently better. But on the other hand you have situations like Chad Reed who can ride with the best of them when he's comfortable on his bike, but when he's not he's just a top 10 guy. There's also Tomac in SX who couldn't get out of his own way the first three rounds and then makes some changes and goes on a tear. I guess you can chock that up to being mental, I'm not sure but I kind of think if they aren't mentally comfortable with their setup some changes should be made.

Chad had RC and JS as his main rivals he flat out could not beat them of course he whined about the bike.

Tomac what happened during round 3? Someone got hurt and Tomac magically looked like a new human from there on I wonder why?

aeffertz wrote:

Tired of this excuse from dudes who have been on the bike for over a year. Bro, if you can't find a setting on the factory bike you've been riding for multiple years, it ain't the bike.

If you do well one weekend and struggle the next on practically the same track, it ain't the bike.

If a GP dude can come over, run a completely new bike, with a different frame and tires than what he ever runs, and goes 1-1 (coming from dead last one moto) on the day... It ain't the bike.

Sorry, but this just proof you have not ridden at the top. A few clicks can be the difference of seconds per lap. There is no way in hell, Tomac would have gotten down 1.7 from 4 without changing something on the bike allowing him to go faster. If you are not 100% on the settings but maybe 97-98% that is your 2-3sec. It all depends how you like your bike setup. If you like it to be well balanced i can ensure you that every click counts.

Those last 2% is very hard to dial in, in practice mode, on a practice groomed track with few other riders pushing the pace.

Look at Tomac coming into this years Supercross. He left the bike, did not touch the settings or setup from Monstercup to A1 because he felt the bike was good, to then find out he was off. Took a few rounds to fix it but then he was back on top. Other examples:

- Roczen 2016, completely off until he switched triple clamps and some other things
- Colt Nichols (changed to Ferrandis setup for Ironman)

KTM has had 3 seasons to dial in the suspension. Even Dungey was struggeling in 2015 with settings.

Again, getting those last 1-2% is rarely something you are able to find on a practice track.

It can be an excuse, if you're not capable of telling your mechanic what it exactly is what you want. But in that case it's true it's not the bike to blame.

And agree with the post above.

aeffertz wrote:

Tired of this excuse from dudes who have been on the bike for over a year. Bro, if you can't find a setting on the factory bike you've been riding for multiple years, it ain't the bike.

If you do well one weekend and struggle the next on practically the same track, it ain't the bike.

If a GP dude can come over, run a completely new bike, with a different frame and tires than what he ever runs, and goes 1-1 (coming from dead last one moto) on the day... It ain't the bike.

aees wrote:

Sorry, but this just proof you have not ridden at the top. A few clicks can be the difference of seconds per lap. There is no way in hell, Tomac would have gotten down 1.7 from 4 without changing something on the bike allowing him to go faster. If you are not 100% on the settings but maybe 97-98% that is your 2-3sec. It all depends how you like your bike setup. If you like it to be well balanced i can ensure you that every click counts.

Those last 2% is very hard to dial in, in practice mode, on a practice groomed track with few other riders pushing the pace.

Look at Tomac coming into this years Supercross. He left the bike, did not touch the settings or setup from Monstercup to A1 because he felt the bike was good, to then find out he was off. Took a few rounds to fix it but then he was back on top. Other examples:

- Roczen 2016, completely off until he switched triple clamps and some other things
- Colt Nichols (changed to Ferrandis setup for Ironman)

KTM has had 3 seasons to dial in the suspension. Even Dungey was struggeling in 2015 with settings.

Again, getting those last 1-2% is rarely something you are able to find on a practice track.

How do you define "ridden at the top"? Does holding an AMA Pro license and testing with Bones count?

So a few clicks equals seconds per lap?

That's a good joke.

I would consider triple clamps a fairly substantial change. You are mixing up minor and substantial changes but then say a few clicks equals "seconds per lap".

Sorry. That's not how it works.

The best part is the riders that has been on the same bike for 2-3 years and all of sudden is struggling with bike setup.

Feels more like "I was moody the last 3 races and didn't give it my all because of X"

aeffertz wrote:

Tired of this excuse from dudes who have been on the bike for over a year. Bro, if you can't find a setting on the factory bike you've been riding for multiple years, it ain't the bike.

If you do well one weekend and struggle the next on practically the same track, it ain't the bike.

If a GP dude can come over, run a completely new bike, with a different frame and tires than what he ever runs, and goes 1-1 (coming from dead last one moto) on the day... It ain't the bike.

aees wrote:

Sorry, but this just proof you have not ridden at the top. A few clicks can be the difference of seconds per lap. There is no way in hell, Tomac would have gotten down 1.7 from 4 without changing something on the bike allowing him to go faster. If you are not 100% on the settings but maybe 97-98% that is your 2-3sec. It all depends how you like your bike setup. If you like it to be well balanced i can ensure you that every click counts.

Those last 2% is very hard to dial in, in practice mode, on a practice groomed track with few other riders pushing the pace.

Look at Tomac coming into this years Supercross. He left the bike, did not touch the settings or setup from Monstercup to A1 because he felt the bike was good, to then find out he was off. Took a few rounds to fix it but then he was back on top. Other examples:

- Roczen 2016, completely off until he switched triple clamps and some other things
- Colt Nichols (changed to Ferrandis setup for Ironman)

KTM has had 3 seasons to dial in the suspension. Even Dungey was struggeling in 2015 with settings.

Again, getting those last 1-2% is rarely something you are able to find on a practice track.

TXDirt wrote:

How do you define "ridden at the top"? Does holding an AMA Pro license and testing with Bones count?

So a few clicks equals seconds per lap?

That's a good joke.

I would consider triple clamps a fairly substantial change. You are mixing up minor and substantial changes but then say a few clicks equals "seconds per lap".

Sorry. That's not how it works.

It's not the clicks that count as them saying they missed on their setup.

It's when they start getting lost in the push rod length, spring, front wheel position combos that they are really saying they messed up their bike setup.

I really think they get to much SX setups stuck in their heads!