Stock pipe better then after market?

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1/28/2019 8:09 PM

I just put a complete new pipe system on my bike and it feels slower!! The power feels super flat now. Anyone else ever exerience this?

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1/28/2019 8:09 PM

groggylbc wrote:

I just put a complete new pipe system on my bike and it feels slower!! The power feels super flat now. Anyone else ever exerience this?

Bike info helps

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1/28/2019 8:10 PM

14 ktm 350

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1/28/2019 8:15 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/28/2019 8:16 PM

groggylbc wrote:

I just put a complete new pipe system on my bike and it feels slower!! The power feels super flat now. Anyone else ever exerience this?

Sometimes getting rid of the peaks and valleys in the powerband will feel slower because its not all of a sudden hitting a spot where the power spikes even though overall the power has increased. A linear powerband can feel bland even with more power if it had more ups and downs before. It could be that it leaned the bike out too and actually does make less. Only way to know would be a dyno but thats kinda excessive for a dirt bike exhaust so you can check your lap times and see if they went down. If your faster, regardless of what it did thats an improvement. Sometimes mellowing out power can even make you faster too so Id check that.

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1/28/2019 9:13 PM

The OEM's spend quite a bit of time engineering the stock exhaust. On my last 3 bikes I've left the stock exhausts on and spent the extra money on tires and pump gas. Still run FMF stickers on my Ford emblems though!

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1/28/2019 9:46 PM

What pipe? On my ‘13 KX450, my PC pipe made it a pig until I realized it has a quiet insert in the end cap. Removing that was night and day different.

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1/28/2019 11:25 PM

omalley wrote:

What pipe? On my ‘13 KX450, my PC pipe made it a pig until I realized it has a quiet insert in the end cap. Removing that was night and day different.

The bikes usualy performs better with the quiet inserts, the sound can trick your mind

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1/28/2019 11:47 PM

Not every dude with a welder and a dyno can do a better job at building an exhaust than a motorcycle manufacturer. There are just a handful of exhaust companies that have the knowledge and resources to build a good product with the strict sound regulations of today.
Same goes for triple clamps. There are so many bad products on the market that just look nice.

What kind of pipe is it? Maybe you just need a different mapping.

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1/28/2019 11:56 PM

groggylbc wrote:

I just put a complete new pipe system on my bike and it feels slower!! The power feels super flat now. Anyone else ever exerience this?

You need to play with your mapping to get the best out of your new pipe.

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Non Gratum Anus Rodentum

1/29/2019 4:45 AM

groggylbc wrote:

14 ktm 350

What exhaust did you go with? I have a 14 KTM 350 with a FMF slip-on and it gave the bike more hit, but in general KTM stock exhausts are really good compared to other OEMs.

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1/29/2019 5:34 AM

I have a friend who dyno tests everyone of the bikes he owns and builds, just because he can. Some of the pipes from the big names are absolute power robbing pieces of shit. Study up before you buy.

And those Mugen engine kits from back in the day that sell for thousands upon thousands of dollars now??? Let's just say that some of those dyno runs are quite disappointing.

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1/29/2019 5:38 AM

Rear sprocket change will do the trick....for a lot less...

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1/29/2019 6:01 AM

Yeah I can't get into 1-2 horse power gain for 900 or so, thats crazy.

I recently sent a email regard this exact issue to Kris Keefer. On my particular bike he said stock is good and if I wanted a little more Mid hit to get a FMF. 17 450sxf

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1/29/2019 6:52 AM

Hold the throttle on for 1/2 second longer at the end of each straight, improve your braking skills, and save yourself $1000

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1/29/2019 7:13 AM

Remapping will get you the power.

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1/29/2019 7:22 AM

On the KTM's.....I think the headers are developed very well. The muffler can be changed out for weight savings and a different power feel but I think it is minimal. Also.....on the 2018 KTM 450 and 250....the muffler is exactly the same. How can it not be different for a 250 and a 450?

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1/29/2019 7:25 AM

I have a very similar bike (2013 350). I kept the stock header, as it's already very good, and put on a fairly cheap used FMF slip on from Ebay. Just had to spend $10 on a new sticker. Looks and sounds nice, and saves a pound or 2 (the 2013 KTM silencer was heavy with some odd baffle in it). The bike seems faster - unless I wear earplugs.

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Current rides: 2016 KTM 250SXF, 2017 KTM 350SXF

1/29/2019 8:06 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/29/2019 8:07 AM

omalley wrote:

What pipe? On my ‘13 KX450, my PC pipe made it a pig until I realized it has a quiet insert in the end cap. Removing that was night and day different.

Hrzk75 wrote:

The bikes usualy performs better with the quiet inserts, the sound can trick your mind

I can assure you it performed worse, for my power delivery preferences. Sound had nothing to do with it.

In retrospect could it have been better on a Dyno? Sure. But on the track it wasn’t an improvement until I pulled the insert.

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1/29/2019 8:23 AM

On that year model bike - in our dyno testing the OEM header was impossible to beat with the systems I tried. I didn't spend the money to try them all.

The aftermarket's we did test all lost power in spots - with no gains anywhere else.

The slip on portions did very little to the power on the dyno - but altered feel on the track. A lot of that altered feel is sound - people can't get around this mentally and swear it feels better. Some of the altered feel is minor mapping changes influenced by the pipe.

It's like saying that freak in the bed felt better even though she didn't - she just sounded better...and we thank her for that.

In general - on my dyno this day and age - any pipe worth 1 hp anywhere in the curve is a massive success. OEMS have the smartest, most well resourced people working for them. Sometimes they are handcuffed in what they can sell but it's hard to beat them when they want to win.




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1/29/2019 8:42 AM

Derek Harris wrote:

On that year model bike - in our dyno testing the OEM header was impossible to beat with the systems I tried. I didn't spend the money to try them all.

The aftermarket's we did test all lost power in spots - with no gains anywhere else.

The slip on portions did very little to the power on the dyno - but altered feel on the track. A lot of that altered feel is sound - people can't get around this mentally and swear it feels better. Some of the altered feel is minor mapping changes influenced by the pipe.

It's like saying that freak in the bed felt better even though she didn't - she just sounded better...and we thank her for that.

In general - on my dyno this day and age - any pipe worth 1 hp anywhere in the curve is a massive success. OEMS have the smartest, most well resourced people working for them. Sometimes they are handcuffed in what they can sell but it's hard to beat them when they want to win.




I believe it. I have a 19 KX450 with the giant ugly stock exhaust system. It's super quiet and looks terrible, but the performance seems fine for the most part.

I considered putting an aftermarket system on, but after spending some time looking at the design work that went into the header and midpipe I think I've decided against it for now.

There are some pretty impressive details, complex tapers, bends (some look hydroformed?) etc that look very expensive to produce. I can only assume if Kawi finally redesigned and changed the look of their mufflers, the engineers had a reason to spend the time/money where they did and had to prove a benefit to fight for the funding to do so.

Not to derail the topic from KTMs but I'm curious how the stock 19 KX system stacks up to the aftermarket if you've tested it?

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1/29/2019 8:48 AM

I went with a Bills Pipes system on my 17 FC450 My fat ass dyno told me and showed me it got up Mt.St. Helen with lot easier than the stock system. That was before I opened it up with a 2 stroke cage, holes in the side panel and mapping. It was a real improvement.

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The older I get, the faster I was.

1/29/2019 9:03 AM

Derek Harris wrote:

On that year model bike - in our dyno testing the OEM header was impossible to beat with the systems I tried. I didn't spend the money to try them all.

The aftermarket's we did test all lost power in spots - with no gains anywhere else.

The slip on portions did very little to the power on the dyno - but altered feel on the track. A lot of that altered feel is sound - people can't get around this mentally and swear it feels better. Some of the altered feel is minor mapping changes influenced by the pipe.

It's like saying that freak in the bed felt better even though she didn't - she just sounded better...and we thank her for that.

In general - on my dyno this day and age - any pipe worth 1 hp anywhere in the curve is a massive success. OEMS have the smartest, most well resourced people working for them. Sometimes they are handcuffed in what they can sell but it's hard to beat them when they want to win.




Jbulz wrote:

I believe it. I have a 19 KX450 with the giant ugly stock exhaust system. It's super quiet and looks terrible, but the performance seems fine for the most part.

I considered putting an aftermarket system on, but after spending some time looking at the design work that went into the header and midpipe I think I've decided against it for now.

There are some pretty impressive details, complex tapers, bends (some look hydroformed?) etc that look very expensive to produce. I can only assume if Kawi finally redesigned and changed the look of their mufflers, the engineers had a reason to spend the time/money where they did and had to prove a benefit to fight for the funding to do so.

Not to derail the topic from KTMs but I'm curious how the stock 19 KX system stacks up to the aftermarket if you've tested it?

I haven't tested heavily yet

Im hearing that there are noticeable power gains out there - but one thing I learned on my personal 450 kx a few years back - the stock pipe on it was my fastest lap times on technical rutted tracks.

The motor was jazzed up because I can't help myself - but it ended up hurting me lap time wise
After doing more suspension testing than I can ever fully explain - I gave up trying to fix my handling issues.
Then I broke my pipe and put the stocker back on and magically the entire bike transformed to a far faster lap time machine and solved the issue I was fighting.
It still made 60 hp at peak (at the time was pretty strong for a 450) but did so like a modern ktm - smooth off bottom and totally progressive with throttle opening. Ever since I now focus all my 450 efforts on delivery. I think the ktm is really good at the pro level because the engine can be ridden hard and aggressively without killing you.

The yzf is so barky and exciting (less so now than the 12) - I LOVE IT. But IMHO it's harder to ride in ruts. I think a lot is to be said about a 450 that doesn't require the rider to be ultra perfect/precise with his throttle hand when first tipping in. It should be smooth and when you want/need more power you have to consciously open the throttle more.

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1/29/2019 9:15 AM

Yeah I was looking for exhausts for my old 13 kx250f a few years ago, a guy on here said he dyno'd all kinds of combinations and nothing beat the stock stock set up in power. The aftermarket would just be for looks and weight. But I could do that just laying off some beer and pizza during the week laughing

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1/29/2019 9:26 AM

Anybody have experience with an FX350. From what I've read the exhausts on them are very "choked" up. I just put a full FMF on it but it's winter here so I won't know for a while.

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1/29/2019 9:43 AM

Stick to stock until you break it.

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2013 CRF450R Factory Connection revalve, All stock.

1/29/2019 9:43 AM

I laugh when people think they need a 450, then think they need an exhaust, and then proceed to explain how the aftermarket exhaust smoothed out the power and made it easier to ride. That’s classic

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1/29/2019 9:43 AM

I went from stock to an FMF slip on with my 2016 YZ250F. Other than it being quieter(a good thing) and smoothing out the bottom(again a good thing) I highly doubt it gained any power. In fact after riding a friends bike with the stock system I think it might have lost power overall.

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Race Bike: 2018 KTM 350SXF

Other Bikes: 1985 CR80R, 1990 CR250R, 1998 PW80, Specialized Fuse Comp 29.

Sold: 2016 YZ250F, 2012 CRF250R

1/29/2019 9:50 AM

I felt the same way about mine on my 12 kxf until I had it remapped

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1/29/2019 10:00 AM

I only rock a FMF 4.1 because of the spark arrestor. Other wise I throw some PC decals on a stock exhaust. Yes I am that guy.

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1/29/2019 11:16 AM

walleyeguy wrote:

Anybody have experience with an FX350. From what I've read the exhausts on them are very "choked" up. I just put a full FMF on it but it's winter here so I won't know for a while.

We did quite a lot of dyno work on one

I was shocked how amazing the corked up system worked. It sounds like a sewing machine stock! But definately some gains to be had with an open system on those - ESPECIALLY after some mapping - being so corked up it needs more fuel to match the open exhaust.

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