Starting gate change proposal

Related:
Create New Tag

9/5/2017 7:56 AM

How many races does a top guy get a great start and his main rivals are buried and that decides the whole race?

When the top guys all start together how awesome and rare is that?! It's like wow here we go it's on.

Why not take a look at the starting gate.

Right now if you qualify first or last the only difference is where on the gate you get to pick. Last place guys still have nearly the same chance of a Hole shot despite qualifying last.

I say make the gate diagonal. First place pick is on the inside, second place is one over and six inches back, and each position is six inches behind the next.

This would to my eye give a more distinct advantage to the better qualifying spots, allowing the top guys to all start together and thus less races getting wrecked before the second turn.

Also we should consider black flagging lappers after maybe 2+ laps down, or having a 106% rule like f1 did. The Lappers are downright dangerous and confusing trying to figure out positioning on the race track for many viewers.

|

9/5/2017 7:59 AM

This would be especially beneficial to sx in my opinion. And could greatly reduce the first turn pile ups.

|

9/5/2017 8:05 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/5/2017 8:06 AM

...but what is Jeff Emig going to say as a replacement for "getting a good start" as one of his Keys to the Race?

|

9/5/2017 8:18 AM

Screw that. Too complicated.

Set the water truck to spray 20' wide.start at one side, one pass, next 20' two passes. Next 20' 3 passes, y the time you get to the other end of the 140' gate you are looking at 14 trips.

Now to make it interesting, have a drawing After qualifying to decide which end the fast qualifiers start from.

Put 10 pins for dry side, 1 pin for the wet side.

Whatever side the fastest guy gets, then the second place guy lines up next to him, and so on down the gate.

Tada......

Mx/sx fixed.....you are welcome

|

9/5/2017 8:21 AM

How about if the good guys learn to start? The only gate change that would be worth doing is going to the mesh like the GP series did.

|

9/5/2017 8:27 AM

Soooo....staggered start? Sounds gay.

Anyone want to go back to a staggered restart in SX and see how much better the racing is? I find it hard to believe sending the fastest guy out first leads to a great race.

Someone else had mentioned it but the best change that could be made is award championship points for qualifying and then invert gate pick based on qualifying. Maybe then a staggered start would make sense but that's a big maybe. I still feel that a great starter should be rewarded. It's a skill and mindset that one must develop.

|

9/5/2017 8:38 AM

I remember being told by an old Honda mechanic (Eric Crippa) after I was complaining about someone beating me I usually beat because he got a good start. He said they are many parts to racing MX, starts, speed, conditioning, and a good bike. Any of the parts weak and results suffer. Learn to get good starts.

|

Take it to the limit, one more time!

9/5/2017 8:57 AM

This sounds great. Make sure that the fastest guy gets to the first turn first, then the second fastest second, and so on. This way we can eliminate all of that dangerous passing crap. They can just ride around in single file, and when someone is about to get lapped, he should be black flagged. BRILLIANT! In fact, we can just determine the finishing order by the qualifying times and eliminate all of the dangers of racing.

|

9/5/2017 9:11 AM

AX style starts for SX. 10 guys up front, 10 in the back. Yes, also reduce back to 20 rider mains. Too many lappers in the way as it is.

|

9/5/2017 9:24 AM

Rolling NASCAR style start. Line up 2x2 and do a parade lap and when they get back to the start straight, have a "go area"...

|

9/5/2017 9:39 AM

Not sure I get the need for this, but...

Given the setup you describe, you're talking a 9.5" start area difference for the top qualifier to the last qualifier in SX, and a 19.5" difference for outdoor races.

If you implement this at all the National tracks, you're talking about reconfiguring every start on the circuit...which also affects every amateur race held there. How would you handle that at local races?

I also think with that much of an angle, you'd either have to make every gate somewhat wider, or figure out a way to completely reconfigure how starting gate are made. Coming across the gate at an angle, every rider would get some kind of sideways.

|

9/5/2017 9:55 AM

It won't work. The inside or outside gate isn't always the one the rider picks it depends on the first turn.

Although the current ones aren't staggered they kind of can seem like that due to the angle of the fist turn. If it's a long sweeping narrow left hand turn the guy on the far right gate pick has to go a hell of a lot longer way around than the guy on the inside which is a disadvantage IMO ( unless your RJ Hampshire)



|

9/5/2017 12:08 PM

just James wrote:

This sounds great. Make sure that the fastest guy gets to the first turn first, then the second fastest second, and so on. This way we can eliminate all of that dangerous passing crap. They can just ride around in single file, and when someone is about to get lapped, he should be black flagged. BRILLIANT! In fact, we can just determine the finishing order by the qualifying times and eliminate all of the dangers of racing.

lmao right??

staggered start sounds like a fuckin terrible idea. if anything the only way a staggard line would work is if the fastest guy is at the back of the pack lmao battle royale. Or why not just get everybody behind a gate and do a 20 rider wide short straight rhythm into the first corner

I really liked the monster energy cup drop styles a lot. Im impartial to the gate starts, might give privateers a more equal playing field maybe.

|

9/5/2017 12:16 PM

Stupid idea!

|

9/5/2017 12:37 PM

tcallahan707 wrote:

Soooo....staggered start? Sounds gay.

Anyone want to go back to a staggered restart in SX and see how much better the racing is? I find it hard to believe sending the fastest guy out first leads to a great race.

Someone else had mentioned it but the best change that could be made is award championship points for qualifying and then invert gate pick based on qualifying. Maybe then a staggered start would make sense but that's a big maybe. I still feel that a great starter should be rewarded. It's a skill and mindset that one must develop.

That's been my idea I've been pushing for the last several years here. You really only need it in SX because there is so much follow the leader the racing just gets flat boring as hell. Not as big of a problem in outdoors.

But anyways, I'll say it again for the hundredth time. The problem in SX is we don't see enough passes being made. The first 50 feet of the race has become too important and negatively affects the remaining 20 laps.

Changing the points system or some kind of "chase" format doesn't do anything for the on-track racing and that is the problem. The problem is the on-track racing is stale. By lap 3 in a lot of races you might as well just pack up and beat the traffic home.

Another problem with racing is the lack of exposure for some of the second tier teams as well as privateers.

So how can we fix the on track racing and increase exposure?

Well simple.

Pay some championship points in the qualifiers and then for the main event invert the gate pick order.

And don't say well people will just sand bag the qualifiers to get a better gate pick. No they won't. Go back and re-read the sentence above. If you pay some championship points in the qualifiers then the riders will race to win them just as they do now. And frankly the heats are about the only time we see actual racing with the current race format.

By inverting the start picks this will allow some of the second tier teams to get better starts, thus having their sponsors get a little TV time. This also will mean that the faster riders will not get a great start and thus will need to make some passes to get to the front.

We need to go away from the first 50 feet of the race being uber critical to the point it's hurting the remaining 20 laps and creating a race environment that is making spectators yawn.

Anyways, It's too easy. So everyone just stay focused on changing the points format or some other stupid thing that does nothing to improve the on-track racing.

|

9/5/2017 12:42 PM

Start picks by lottery, mix 'em up and let her rip.

|

2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

9/5/2017 12:48 PM

tcallahan707 wrote:

Soooo....staggered start? Sounds gay.

Anyone want to go back to a staggered restart in SX and see how much better the racing is? I find it hard to believe sending the fastest guy out first leads to a great race.

Someone else had mentioned it but the best change that could be made is award championship points for qualifying and then invert gate pick based on qualifying. Maybe then a staggered start would make sense but that's a big maybe. I still feel that a great starter should be rewarded. It's a skill and mindset that one must develop.

the idea has some merit, when they have had to do a reestart mid way through a race they are lined up diagonally

not sure it would fit in the sport but who knows.

Heck if you wanted to add some changes, i would say do an automatic restart halfway through, add in a joker lap, and have more than 1 main event (this is SX specific though).

|

"If you feel in control, you're not going fast enough" ~Mario Andretti

9/5/2017 12:48 PM

For SX ? I like this idea for gate picks in the main. First race of the year gate picks go by qualifying times like normal. After the first round gate picks in the main go by overall series points. 20th in points gets first gate pick, 19th gets 2nd pick, 18th gets 3rd pick and on down the line with the current points leader getting last gate pick. Continue that for the whole season. Whoever has the least series points that makes it into the main gets first gate pick. Go in order by points, with the points leader last pick every week. Yes I know it would mean hectic starts, Mid pack or back riders getting holeshots, and lots of passing. The races are already freight trains with minimal passing, why not mix it up a bit.

|

9/5/2017 12:48 PM

Numbers on clothes pins. Hold the bucket up high so no one can look in.

Old school bitches. It worked.

|

9/5/2017 12:54 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Start picks by lottery, mix 'em up and let her rip.

Yep

|



9/5/2017 1:14 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Start picks by lottery, mix 'em up and let her rip.

MX Guy wrote:

Yep

So a championship can be decided by pulling a clothespin in Vegas? Seems like a shitstorm waiting to happen.

|

9/5/2017 1:28 PM

yz133rider wrote:

How many races does a top guy get a great start and his main rivals are buried and that decides the whole race?

When the top guys all start together how awesome and rare is that?! It's like wow here we go it's on.

Why not take a look at the starting gate.

Right now if you qualify first or last the only difference is where on the gate you get to pick. Last place guys still have nearly the same chance of a Hole shot despite qualifying last.

I say make the gate diagonal. First place pick is on the inside, second place is one over and six inches back, and each position is six inches behind the next.

This would to my eye give a more distinct advantage to the better qualifying spots, allowing the top guys to all start together and thus less races getting wrecked before the second turn.

Also we should consider black flagging lappers after maybe 2+ laps down, or having a 106% rule like f1 did. The Lappers are downright dangerous and confusing trying to figure out positioning on the race track for many viewers.

Why not just award finishing position based on qualifying times? Heck, why not just hold a vote to determine the winner of the event?

Seriously, this is a great example of a solution without a real problem..........

|

9/5/2017 1:44 PM

sumdood wrote:

For SX ? I like this idea for gate picks in the main. First race of the year gate picks go by qualifying times like normal. After the first round gate picks in the main go by overall series points. 20th in points gets first gate pick, 19th gets 2nd pick, 18th gets 3rd pick and on down the line with the current points leader getting last gate pick. Continue that for the whole season. Whoever has the least series points that makes it into the main gets first gate pick. Go in order by points, with the points leader last pick every week. Yes I know it would mean hectic starts, Mid pack or back riders getting holeshots, and lots of passing. The races are already freight trains with minimal passing, why not mix it up a bit.

Except invert only the top 8 (or maybe 10). USAC midget racing at Indy Speedrome used to invert the top X (10, I believe). Rich Vogler would usually win, but it would take almost the entire race for him to get to the front. By inverting only the top X cars, the faster racers didn't have to deal with the back marks/track hazards. If they had started normally (non-inverted), it would have been a complete snooze fest. With the inverted start, there were some really great races to watch.

|

9/5/2017 2:03 PM

Giving the fastest rider the best chance of a holeshot is a sure fire way to get runaway, boring races.

|

9/5/2017 2:17 PM

Thats counterproductive. Having the fastest guy out front off the bat is going to worsen the problem youre trying to solve.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, the better man always wins. No matter what you change.

|

2009 Kawasaki KX450F
2009 Kawasaki KX250F
2002 Suzuki GSXR 600

9/5/2017 2:59 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/5/2017 3:03 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Start picks by lottery, mix 'em up and let her rip.

It would add to the "show" the top 10 riders have to pick from 20 numbered discs. The second 10 get what numbers are left based on qualifying to speed up the show.

The number you pick is your gate not an order to pick a gate. The second ten go in numbered order of gates remaining.

It can work easily and only take 5min.

Another system is an invert draw. Top qualifier goes up and draws the invert for the main, 0, 2, 4, 8 or ALL. Obviously the "0" pill is the most desirable. Gate picks are then done accordingly.

A lot of drama can be pimped in either scenario.
I've seen both systems used in the World of Outlaws and IRA Sprint Car series'. It works.

|

9/5/2017 3:14 PM

The only change that I'd really like to see is going back to the rubber bands/surgical tubing. Jump that and you get a nice burn on your neck but not strangled or decapitated.

|

9/5/2017 3:18 PM

APLMAN99 wrote:

The only change that I'd really like to see is going back to the rubber bands/surgical tubing. Jump that and you get a nice burn on your neck but not strangled or decapitated.

haahha...everyone that raced in the 70's early 80's had to deal with that....we all say we were whipped by it but it rarely happened to the degree we all say it did. I never personally got it but on an outside gate it would cause a slight hesitation and some people did get tore up by it.

|

9/5/2017 3:21 PM

I wonder what Rick Johnson thinks we should do.

|

Instagram: vanillaice782
Amateur helmet painter

9/5/2017 4:07 PM

They did this at Valkenswaard GP this year, and it sucked.

|