Something from the MEC - And why not?

Crush
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Edited Date/Time 10/22/2014 11:21pm
Just listening to the Weege/Matthes/JT pod on the MEC, what say you guys about bringing elements of MEC to supercross? We're actually INCREDIBLY basic in terms of motor racing - No strategy, no pitstops, no nothing.

I had buddies over to say hi to the kid when MEC was on. They were into the flat track, the joker lane etc, the million, the split start. It was all interesting, and these are dudes I've known my whole life and they've DEFINITELY seen races and heard me talk(drone) on about it.

I'm not saying for all races but why not split the series up...

3 x 10 lappers at say 6 rounds? Schedule could run like

250 heat 1 - 6 laps (5mins)
250 heat 2 - 6 laps (5mins)
450 heat 1 - 8 laps (6-7mins)
450 heat 2 - 8 laps (6-7mins)

250 LCQ - 4 laps (3-4mins)
450 Semi 1 - 6 laps (5mins)
450 Sem 2 - 6 laps (5mins)

Break - Amateur all stars - 6 laps (6mins)
450 LCQ - 4 laps (3-4mins)
Break - Amateur all stars - 6 laps (6mins)

450 Final 1 - 10 laps (8-9mins)
250 Final 1 - 10 laps (8-9mins)
450 Final 2 - 10 laps (8-9mins)
250 Final 2 - 10 laps (8-9mins)
450 Final 3 - 10 laps (8-9mins)

What about the joker lane at a couple? Some a shortcut, some a longer section. Almost all other motor-racing has the intrigue of pit stops or some other element. You could combine it with an event that has 2x15 lap main events... Have a flat barrel race section that dudes have to take and it's a 10 second difference - and finishing position is reversed for gate ORDER. ie 1st starts outside.

Hows about using the outer limits of the stadium floor areas like they do at the MEC? Each track could theoretically gain an entire lane (And valuable lap time) with some flat tracking section - which will suit some guys and detriment to others depending on bike setup.... If you made it substantial, add some sand, it could make for hectic yo-yo effect lap to lap

Points for qualifying?
Holeshot points?

Some combination of any of these...?

I definitely think 20 laps is cool, is it selling? I think it could more with some change, and it's not like other racing hasn't proved it works. What say you?
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hvaughn88
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10/22/2014 7:01am
I like the idea for qualifying, laps led, etc points. I like the joker lane at a few events too, but I don't see that lasting more than a season after a top guy forgets to take it and perhaps ruins a title chase or something haha
Crush
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10/22/2014 7:11am
hvaughn88 wrote:
I like the idea for qualifying, laps led, etc points. I like the joker lane at a few events too, but I don't see that lasting...
I like the idea for qualifying, laps led, etc points. I like the joker lane at a few events too, but I don't see that lasting more than a season after a top guy forgets to take it and perhaps ruins a title chase or something haha
Do you think they'd forget it if it was part of the series... especially after a few of them have famously forgotten it at the MEC already?

Perhaps to remedy that they could simply apply a 5second (or equivalent time to the lane) penalty, like they do if you cut the track now and that moves you down however many spots in race time. It'd work out still.

Kawaboy. We'll strike that one from your record. We're trying to add interest, not take it away! Smile
10/22/2014 7:12am Edited Date/Time 10/22/2014 7:13am
I like the 3 ten lap mains at 2 events, one east one west. afternoon qualifying for 450s

450 LCQ
250 heat 1
450 main 1
250 heat 2
ktm 50s
250 LCQ
450 main 2
track maintenance
250 main
450 main 3

IDEA FOR MONSTER CUP 2015

Huge whoop section, bypass lane for amateurs and to use as a joker lane variation for the mains

The Shop

hvaughn88
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10/22/2014 7:15am Edited Date/Time 10/22/2014 7:16am
hvaughn88 wrote:
I like the idea for qualifying, laps led, etc points. I like the joker lane at a few events too, but I don't see that lasting...
I like the idea for qualifying, laps led, etc points. I like the joker lane at a few events too, but I don't see that lasting more than a season after a top guy forgets to take it and perhaps ruins a title chase or something haha
Crush wrote:
Do you think they'd forget it if it was part of the series... especially after a few of them have famously forgotten it at the MEC...
Do you think they'd forget it if it was part of the series... especially after a few of them have famously forgotten it at the MEC already?

Perhaps to remedy that they could simply apply a 5second (or equivalent time to the lane) penalty, like they do if you cut the track now and that moves you down however many spots in race time. It'd work out still.

Kawaboy. We'll strike that one from your record. We're trying to add interest, not take it away! Smile
I want to say "no, they wouldn't forget." But my gut tells me otherwise.
YZ324
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10/22/2014 7:21am
I can agree with some of your ideas. I would be game for some track changes too. Flat track or long sweeping corners, sand and split start or reversing the gate order, qualifying pts, holeshot pts all sound like good additions.

What we are not considering is how these changes might affect lap times and event positioning for live coverage. I can tell you that since they are broadcasting every event live this year I don't want them to do anything to jeopardize that luxury!!! Hell I go to the Houston and Sometimes also the Dallas SX here locally but the next day I have to pull up the DVR and watch it again to see what I missed at the event! The wife always says...."Seriously!! Again!!?? You just watched it yesterday!!". LOL
hvaughn88
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10/22/2014 7:25am
YZ324 wrote:
I can agree with some of your ideas. I would be game for some track changes too. Flat track or long sweeping corners, sand and split...
I can agree with some of your ideas. I would be game for some track changes too. Flat track or long sweeping corners, sand and split start or reversing the gate order, qualifying pts, holeshot pts all sound like good additions.

What we are not considering is how these changes might affect lap times and event positioning for live coverage. I can tell you that since they are broadcasting every event live this year I don't want them to do anything to jeopardize that luxury!!! Hell I go to the Houston and Sometimes also the Dallas SX here locally but the next day I have to pull up the DVR and watch it again to see what I missed at the event! The wife always says...."Seriously!! Again!!?? You just watched it yesterday!!". LOL
I do the same thing at the Dallas sx. Sometimes I find myself staring a that damn gigantic screen and then I miss something on the track, haha
Crush
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10/22/2014 7:26am
haha... All our Wives say that!

I put the times above... if I haven't had too many beers (working late, not a wednesday drunk) that's about two hours of track time. What is it now? Maybe slightly less than that (No amateur and 10 mins less 450 time) So that's similar...

One thing I'd also like to see is some goddamn imagination in the tracks. Windham brought it up too. That rhythm section at MEC was just 9 5 foot jumps in a row.

Where is the interest there? There's one way through. We need tall tables step on, step off, high, low, short long blah blah. All the 08/09 rider designed tracks had cool sections, and most of the late 90s early 2000 tracks had some similar cool stuff... not just table to table to table–maybe the fastest obstacle going.
YZ324
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10/22/2014 7:42am
Crush wrote:
haha... All our Wives say that! I put the times above... if I haven't had too many beers (working late, not a wednesday drunk) that's about...
haha... All our Wives say that!

I put the times above... if I haven't had too many beers (working late, not a wednesday drunk) that's about two hours of track time. What is it now? Maybe slightly less than that (No amateur and 10 mins less 450 time) So that's similar...

One thing I'd also like to see is some goddamn imagination in the tracks. Windham brought it up too. That rhythm section at MEC was just 9 5 foot jumps in a row.

Where is the interest there? There's one way through. We need tall tables step on, step off, high, low, short long blah blah. All the 08/09 rider designed tracks had cool sections, and most of the late 90s early 2000 tracks had some similar cool stuff... not just table to table to table–maybe the fastest obstacle going.
Right!! Or what about a BIG ASS STEP UP!!

And how about recruiting some former Hall of Famers to help with track design on a few tracks a year. Or even team an old school pro with a newly retired pro for track design.

Marty Smith/Showtime2
Marty Tripes/Goat4
Bob Hannah/Fro
Steve Wise/Windham
Jeff Ward/TP199
Krad119
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10/22/2014 8:26am
2 15-lap races for each class, moto scoring.



motomike137
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10/22/2014 8:34am
I'm with ya Crush. The format is stale as a week old loaf of bread. I really would like to see multiple but shorter main events like the MEC. Also some imagination with the tracks for sure. Go out on a limb and try some different stuff.
motomike137
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10/22/2014 9:18am
One more outside the box thought relative to adding legitamicy to the casual fan and total outsider... find a way to make the race purses much larger! If you could advertize on a weekly basis that there is a million bucks on the line I think that would add much interest as well. Anybody got Warren Buffets phone#?
peelout
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10/22/2014 9:19am
i really like the idea of multiple main events. i think the Aussi SX series had something good going, every race was different and it kept it interesting in my opinion.

as for the joker lane, i think it's cool for the MEC but not so much for other races.

qualifying should ALWAYS be as races, i hate the timed qualifying.

just my opinions, bros
SEE ARE125
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10/22/2014 9:30am Edited Date/Time 10/22/2014 9:33am
One thing I feel the MEC offers that SX doesn't is that it seems guys really go for the win, especially whoever wins the first moto and has a shot at the million. In SX, it seems guys focus on the championship more than winning(and rightfully so), and if they make a mistake or have a bad night, instead of hanging it out to try and make up positions, they settle in with the mentality of "just get solid points, there's always next weekend." I'm not saying they shouldn't play it smart and focus on the championship because obviously the championship is the priority, I'm just wondering what can be done to motivate the riders to try and gain more positions and go for the win more. To me, the most exciting part of a race is seeing someone work their way through the pack toward the front. When I see a guy settling in and playing it safe, it's kind of a buzzkill.

I'm not real sure how to go about changing it, maybe reformat the points system by making larger gaps between positions? Instead of say 25pts for the winner, how about 100 for 1st, then 85 for 2nd, and so on? Would this work or would it cause one or two guys to really pull away in the points? I would think that having a larger gap, would allow someone who had a bad night to catch back up by stringing together a few wins, as opposed to just being completely out of the championship. I really don't know, just thinking out loud. But I think everyone can agree, seeing RV or JS come through the pack is way more exciting than seeing them settle in and try to minimize damage.
sybro
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10/22/2014 9:31am
Maybe more for the MEC but I like the Idea of making the Joker lane as a shortcut instead of longer section. That could spice things up
yak651
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10/22/2014 9:37am
No on the joker lane concept - yes on two shorter races/moto's. The start, first 5 or 6 laps is when most action is happening (and when we miss most of it on TV when the producers go back to watch the start again....). I know sometimes we see a late in the race charge, but if everyone knew the race was shorter maybe they would have a higher sense of urgency thru the race.
10/22/2014 9:49am
Crush wrote:
Just listening to the Weege/Matthes/JT pod on the MEC, what say you guys about bringing elements of MEC to supercross? We're actually INCREDIBLY basic in terms...
Just listening to the Weege/Matthes/JT pod on the MEC, what say you guys about bringing elements of MEC to supercross? We're actually INCREDIBLY basic in terms of motor racing - No strategy, no pitstops, no nothing.

I had buddies over to say hi to the kid when MEC was on. They were into the flat track, the joker lane etc, the million, the split start. It was all interesting, and these are dudes I've known my whole life and they've DEFINITELY seen races and heard me talk(drone) on about it.

I'm not saying for all races but why not split the series up...

3 x 10 lappers at say 6 rounds? Schedule could run like

250 heat 1 - 6 laps (5mins)
250 heat 2 - 6 laps (5mins)
450 heat 1 - 8 laps (6-7mins)
450 heat 2 - 8 laps (6-7mins)

250 LCQ - 4 laps (3-4mins)
450 Semi 1 - 6 laps (5mins)
450 Sem 2 - 6 laps (5mins)

Break - Amateur all stars - 6 laps (6mins)
450 LCQ - 4 laps (3-4mins)
Break - Amateur all stars - 6 laps (6mins)

450 Final 1 - 10 laps (8-9mins)
250 Final 1 - 10 laps (8-9mins)
450 Final 2 - 10 laps (8-9mins)
250 Final 2 - 10 laps (8-9mins)
450 Final 3 - 10 laps (8-9mins)

What about the joker lane at a couple? Some a shortcut, some a longer section. Almost all other motor-racing has the intrigue of pit stops or some other element. You could combine it with an event that has 2x15 lap main events... Have a flat barrel race section that dudes have to take and it's a 10 second difference - and finishing position is reversed for gate ORDER. ie 1st starts outside.

Hows about using the outer limits of the stadium floor areas like they do at the MEC? Each track could theoretically gain an entire lane (And valuable lap time) with some flat tracking section - which will suit some guys and detriment to others depending on bike setup.... If you made it substantial, add some sand, it could make for hectic yo-yo effect lap to lap

Points for qualifying?
Holeshot points?

Some combination of any of these...?

I definitely think 20 laps is cool, is it selling? I think it could more with some change, and it's not like other racing hasn't proved it works. What say you?
Great post, Crush. As a long time MX/SX junkie, I agree. Adding some of these interesting factors to the racing would only do well for the sport and it's growth. My only concern would be someone losing a championship on a technicality. Right now, save for freak injury or mechanical, it's usually the fastest and most consistent rider in the series that brings home the championship...
oshow
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10/22/2014 10:28am
Crush wrote:
Just listening to the Weege/Matthes/JT pod on the MEC, what say you guys about bringing elements of MEC to supercross? We're actually INCREDIBLY basic in terms...
Just listening to the Weege/Matthes/JT pod on the MEC, what say you guys about bringing elements of MEC to supercross? We're actually INCREDIBLY basic in terms of motor racing - No strategy, no pitstops, no nothing.

I had buddies over to say hi to the kid when MEC was on. They were into the flat track, the joker lane etc, the million, the split start. It was all interesting, and these are dudes I've known my whole life and they've DEFINITELY seen races and heard me talk(drone) on about it.

I'm not saying for all races but why not split the series up...

3 x 10 lappers at say 6 rounds? Schedule could run like

250 heat 1 - 6 laps (5mins)
250 heat 2 - 6 laps (5mins)
450 heat 1 - 8 laps (6-7mins)
450 heat 2 - 8 laps (6-7mins)

250 LCQ - 4 laps (3-4mins)
450 Semi 1 - 6 laps (5mins)
450 Sem 2 - 6 laps (5mins)

Break - Amateur all stars - 6 laps (6mins)
450 LCQ - 4 laps (3-4mins)
Break - Amateur all stars - 6 laps (6mins)

450 Final 1 - 10 laps (8-9mins)
250 Final 1 - 10 laps (8-9mins)
450 Final 2 - 10 laps (8-9mins)
250 Final 2 - 10 laps (8-9mins)
450 Final 3 - 10 laps (8-9mins)

What about the joker lane at a couple? Some a shortcut, some a longer section. Almost all other motor-racing has the intrigue of pit stops or some other element. You could combine it with an event that has 2x15 lap main events... Have a flat barrel race section that dudes have to take and it's a 10 second difference - and finishing position is reversed for gate ORDER. ie 1st starts outside.

Hows about using the outer limits of the stadium floor areas like they do at the MEC? Each track could theoretically gain an entire lane (And valuable lap time) with some flat tracking section - which will suit some guys and detriment to others depending on bike setup.... If you made it substantial, add some sand, it could make for hectic yo-yo effect lap to lap

Points for qualifying?
Holeshot points?

Some combination of any of these...?

I definitely think 20 laps is cool, is it selling? I think it could more with some change, and it's not like other racing hasn't proved it works. What say you?
I say you have way too much spare time on your hands. Pretty passionate about it though.
KlootZak
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10/22/2014 10:32am
3x 10 minutes is too short in my opinion because it favors a good start even more than it is now. Therefore I would opt for 2x 15 minutes. Combine both results like outdoors and the winner of the night gets 25 points, second 20 points, ...

I also would change the track layouts. Some are really one-lined, typical and therefore boring. They should take some sections from the Red Bull Straight Rhythm and add some corners.
10/22/2014 1:59pm
It seem like every racing series I watch, people want to "spice up the show". It's a race to the bottom of the barrel in my opinion. Who can out-WWE NASCAR? If you don't think the sport of racing is exciting enough to watch, then why watch at all.

No to joker lanes. If you can't get by on the same piece of track, you shouldn't get by at all. No to points for qualifying, holeshots, etc. The whole point of racing to to finish as best you can. Your reward for qualifying well or getting the holeshot is that it improves the probability of getting a good race result. That is your "bonus" for getting the hole shot.

There is a reason that close finishes are exciting in SX, and it isn't just because they are close. It is because you've watched the whole battle develop slowly over 15-20 minutes. You've watched the ebb and flow of different riders being fast throughout the entire race. You've watched two or more people experiment with different lines, different rhythms, make mistakes, come back from mistakes.

If you shorten the races, you decrease the build up of tension, which makes the finish less exciting, even if it is close.
The Rock
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10/22/2014 4:50pm
I'm with ya Crush. The format is stale as a week old loaf of bread. I really would like to see multiple but shorter main events...
I'm with ya Crush. The format is stale as a week old loaf of bread. I really would like to see multiple but shorter main events like the MEC. Also some imagination with the tracks for sure. Go out on a limb and try some different stuff.
Au contraire Pierre RE: stale program. The freakin' semis just came back along with 22 rider fields so it is far from stale for me. Four riders transferring from the LCQ is way better than just two.

Only thing I want at this point is timed main events so fans no matter where they see a SX race get the same bang for their buck plus the riders have x amount of minutes to get the job done.
motomike137
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10/22/2014 5:19pm
The Rock wrote:
Au contraire Pierre RE: stale program. The freakin' semis just came back along with 22 rider fields so it is far from stale for me. Four...
Au contraire Pierre RE: stale program. The freakin' semis just came back along with 22 rider fields so it is far from stale for me. Four riders transferring from the LCQ is way better than just two.

Only thing I want at this point is timed main events so fans no matter where they see a SX race get the same bang for their buck plus the riders have x amount of minutes to get the job done.
Hey Rock I respect your opinion and I thought I would love the semis being back also but I guess I am spoiled from watching for 40 years and found myself watching the heats and then maybe or maybe not watching the semis and LCQ's (especially if I had to wait and watch my recording of the race). I could stand it if the broadcast were slightly shorter and all the qualifying had already taken place beforehand. I wouldn't mind if when they come on the air we see a few qualifying highlights and then go straight to the action like the MEC. I want to see more air time of the stars and in meaningful races. Just my 2 cents Cool
Bressler11
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10/22/2014 5:19pm
Kawaboy14 wrote:
No whoops
Are you a Mike Alessi fan or something. Just kidding but man his whoop skills are Sub-par though...
Crush
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10/22/2014 5:45pm
I may or may not have had 20 beers last night whilst working on something so when I got into it I had time to write it out... certainly wasn't going to sleep!!

I'd also like to see a points change and possibly chase format... If the points payout was higher per round and then last 6 were sprints and vegas was a super final 30 lapper or something silly... just to have some interest. James would have contended for the last 4 straight if that format was around.

Why not have a couple sand rounds?

RV has wrapped up the last 4 at least a round early right, even two? There has been some great competition but I believe some format changes could intensify it for sure...

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