So, when KTM sales don't fall, and all the big 4's do????

miedosoracing1
Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 10:35pm
Who's buying a 2010 bike? I might be getting a KTM 150sx. But I saw the post on Motonews and it looks like a lot of people are forgoing it. Obviously the economy is bad. But, maybe along with that, KTM is also picking up share? Just my thoughts. What if? Proof that expensive bikes aren't the fad anymore? Guess time will tell. But seems that Yamaha and KTM are gonna be the only one's with good sales if people start going to the "cheaper" version. Hopefully Yamaha will make enough for demand this year. Again, talking 250f compared to 250 2 stroke.
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JW381
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JW381 10/12/2009 1:39pm
10/12/2009 1:39pm
I wouldn't count on it. With a 2010 bike that is so radically different, I'm sure there's going to be no shortage of people going out to get it. Doesn't mean it's the right move necessarily, but it's what I see happening. It would be amazing tho if the YZ250's still sold really well, compared to the new 450.

I won't be holding my breath tho...
miedosoracing1 10/12/2009 1:45pm
10/12/2009 1:45pm Edited Date/Time 10/12/2009 2:06pm
Anyone have charts of sales of 250f's? I'd be interested to know if the 250f is selling just as well as years past. The 450s are gonna sell always. Biggest baddest. Right? But the 250 250 comparison. I'm guessing the 250 2 stroke might start taking off. I mean, what $2,500 difference in cost? Maybe more? The 250 can be raced in many local races. Plus, think about mods cost. The 250 2 stroke becomes way way cheaper. So maybe. Just saying
aggiemoto99
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aggiemoto99 10/12/2009 1:48pm
10/12/2009 1:48pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:42am
Yamaha is withholding new 2010 two strokes and that's in my opinion a direct effert to get people to buy the four strokes.


Some riders "HAVE" to have the newest bike possible so they would be forced into getting the 250f...


I hope the 250 two sells...but yamaha also doesn't make a lot..and dealers here locally are keeping prices on them high.


It's cheaper to buy a left over 09 450f than a new or left over 250 two

Not to mention that as a company...it's probably more profitable in parts sales to sell a 4 stroke. If you cared about nothign but profits...aka an investor, 4 stroke sounds better.

I do feel they are shooting themselves in the foot...and in due time bike sales will be so bad that the price will have to return to about 5k for a new bike...and then the two stroke might be back

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miedosoracing1 10/12/2009 1:56pm
10/12/2009 1:56pm Edited Date/Time 10/12/2009 2:10pm
I don't think prices will ever go down. But the KTM's still making 2 strokes could make the sales of the $10,000 bikes null and void. And really, maybe we should say they are $15,000 bikes, cuz you have to mod a 250f, right? I have yet to see a stock 250f out on any track. And those mods are not cheap. Then TM, Husky, Chinese etc could walk in and change things. Changing of the guard?
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Torco1 10/12/2009 2:06pm
10/12/2009 2:06pm
I agree with aggiemoto99, I do a lot of dealer open house events here in SoCal and have gotten to know a lot of the sales managers and they are not shy about telling me that they keep the 250 2-strokes as well as some of models "behind closed doors" ................that is until they start selling enough of the more expensive 4-strokes to make the regional sales managers happy.
miedosoracing1 10/12/2009 2:08pm
10/12/2009 2:08pm Edited Date/Time 10/12/2009 2:13pm
So along with the higher CC shoved down our throats, the actual sale is too. Just lovely. So much for anyone saying, "If demand is up they will sell them." BS
Larry
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Larry 10/12/2009 2:15pm
10/12/2009 2:15pm
Maybe KTM's success has more to do with the growing off road market. More and more riders (at least here in the SE) are figuring out that you get a lot more bang for the buck in off road racing than in MX.
And yes the KTM 2 or 4 stroke is a serious good buy. Ready to race, high quality materials and an excellent resale value.
Torco1
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Torco1 10/12/2009 2:26pm
10/12/2009 2:26pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
So along with the higher CC shoved down our throats, the actual sale is too. Just lovely. So much for anyone saying, "If demand is up...
So along with the higher CC shoved down our throats, the actual sale is too. Just lovely. So much for anyone saying, "If demand is up they will sell them." BS
Its a joke, I dont think the shop employees are necessarily happy about it either......they just sale what they are told to sell to make the numbers. I'm seeing brand new 07 and 08 450's in a lot of the local shops with the prices dropped down to under $5000, but just as soon as a 2-stroke gets put on the floor they are gone. Sure donest seem to me that everybody wants the almighty 4-stroke, or the cost that comes with it.
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CR250Rider 10/12/2009 3:14pm
10/12/2009 3:14pm
dual-sport sales were up like 3.5%
KTM had a record yr selling Smokers
everything else was down, was it 20% ? i forget the exact number
Void Main
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Void Main 10/12/2009 3:22pm
10/12/2009 3:22pm
KTM shops are closing up around my part of the country. It's not because of the quality of the bike or that people don't want them because they are awesome bikes and we have a bazillion of them in our club. From what I hear it's more to do with the requirements KTM puts on the dealers in order to be a KTM dealer, the dealers just aren't finding it worth it. I could be wrong as I have no insider knowledge. Seems like shopping for KTMs on the Internet is the way to go now. Feel free to set the record straight if I got bad hearsay info.
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Lightning78 10/12/2009 3:33pm
10/12/2009 3:33pm
It could be a "changing of the guard" as someone above has posted .....If 250 two strokes start gaining market share from KTM and Yamaha's sell out over and over then the MFG's that rely on strictly 4 strokes will either lose market share and never gain it back or they will have to conform and start producing them again. If and only if it does go that way then it will be strange indeed, we started this sport with Euro bikes dominating the Japanese came in and took over now it looks as if they may have made a few wrong turns and refuse to come back so now the Euro brand bikes may have a rise again.

As with any industry in business you need to adapt with the changing market demand of your consumers and or new competition, if not you will be passed by and left behind to dwindle down to nothing over time.
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Tiki 10/12/2009 3:36pm
10/12/2009 3:36pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Who's buying a 2010 bike? I might be getting a KTM 150sx. But I saw the post on Motonews and it looks like a lot of...
Who's buying a 2010 bike? I might be getting a KTM 150sx. But I saw the post on Motonews and it looks like a lot of people are forgoing it. Obviously the economy is bad. But, maybe along with that, KTM is also picking up share? Just my thoughts. What if? Proof that expensive bikes aren't the fad anymore? Guess time will tell. But seems that Yamaha and KTM are gonna be the only one's with good sales if people start going to the "cheaper" version. Hopefully Yamaha will make enough for demand this year. Again, talking 250f compared to 250 2 stroke.
No desire to purchase a new bike. Not due to economy, more to 'no significant changes in what is available in the Off Road market.' When the Off Road bikes go fuel injection, KTM possible adds a linkage I am looking at that. Also I am looking at Yamaha and Honda adding Fuel Injection and the latter MX bike changes to their Off Road line. Beyond that, a 04-2010 Off Road bike are all based on rider preference.

I couldn't ride a 250F if I wanted to, two strokes vibrate too much for my liking after sitting on one for a few hours. I did look at the 300 XC this year. Nice bike, I choose torque of a big bore 450 over that for my racing habits. Not a bad bike, just not for me.
Poker_Player 10/12/2009 3:55pm
10/12/2009 3:55pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Anyone have charts of sales of 250f's? I'd be interested to know if the 250f is selling just as well as years past. The 450s are...
Anyone have charts of sales of 250f's? I'd be interested to know if the 250f is selling just as well as years past. The 450s are gonna sell always. Biggest baddest. Right? But the 250 250 comparison. I'm guessing the 250 2 stroke might start taking off. I mean, what $2,500 difference in cost? Maybe more? The 250 can be raced in many local races. Plus, think about mods cost. The 250 2 stroke becomes way way cheaper. So maybe. Just saying
$2500? Is it that much difference?
Deetsmx
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Deetsmx 10/12/2009 4:04pm
10/12/2009 4:04pm
As I mentioned in the other post, my brother just bought a ktm 250 and i will be buying one next year. This is after saying I would not buy another ktm because of the issues we had with them in 03. Nobody else updates them or has them so options are limited.
TerryB
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TerryB 10/12/2009 4:11pm
10/12/2009 4:11pm
KTM will be selling dirtbikes long after the closest thing soul-less Honda sells to a motorcycle are Segways.
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GuyB 10/12/2009 4:14pm
10/12/2009 4:14pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Anyone have charts of sales of 250f's? I'd be interested to know if the 250f is selling just as well as years past. The 450s are...
Anyone have charts of sales of 250f's? I'd be interested to know if the 250f is selling just as well as years past. The 450s are gonna sell always. Biggest baddest. Right? But the 250 250 comparison. I'm guessing the 250 2 stroke might start taking off. I mean, what $2,500 difference in cost? Maybe more? The 250 can be raced in many local races. Plus, think about mods cost. The 250 2 stroke becomes way way cheaper. So maybe. Just saying
You mean maybe, just wishing.
JW381
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JW381 10/12/2009 4:20pm
10/12/2009 4:20pm
GuyB wrote:
You mean maybe, just wishing.
Hey! You stay out of this. This is insider only talk.

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GuyB 10/12/2009 4:30pm
10/12/2009 4:30pm
Fantasyland insiders? Wink
JW381
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JW381 10/12/2009 4:48pm
10/12/2009 4:48pm
GuyB wrote:
Fantasyland insiders? Wink
Yeah, that's what I said. Didn't I?
miedosoracing1 10/12/2009 5:16pm
10/12/2009 5:16pm
GuyB wrote:
Fantasyland insiders? Wink
Hey, go back and look at what you used to make fun of me when I posted about how this economy would look right now. I believe it was 5-6 years ago. Got made fun of by you and others. I looked crazy then, but now "can't touch this" LOL. Seriously, you guys think this is crazy talk about 2 strokes. But just sit back and watch. The 250F will soon be a fading fad. Maybe the 350F will be taking over the 450's. I don't know. I just know that times are changing. Chevy, Ford etc didn't want to heed warnings about what people wanted. Now they get a bailout from the govt. Dealers are forcing a 4 stroke instead of selling a backroom 2 stroke. Just watch and learn boys, Just watch and learn. penguins on the movie "smile and wave boys"
Lightning78
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Lightning78 10/12/2009 5:27pm
10/12/2009 5:27pm
GuyB wrote:
Fantasyland insiders? Wink
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Hey, go back and look at what you used to make fun of me when I posted about how this economy would look right now. I...
Hey, go back and look at what you used to make fun of me when I posted about how this economy would look right now. I believe it was 5-6 years ago. Got made fun of by you and others. I looked crazy then, but now "can't touch this" LOL. Seriously, you guys think this is crazy talk about 2 strokes. But just sit back and watch. The 250F will soon be a fading fad. Maybe the 350F will be taking over the 450's. I don't know. I just know that times are changing. Chevy, Ford etc didn't want to heed warnings about what people wanted. Now they get a bailout from the govt. Dealers are forcing a 4 stroke instead of selling a backroom 2 stroke. Just watch and learn boys, Just watch and learn. penguins on the movie "smile and wave boys"
He's right you guys .....things will change it's just going to take a while for the market to react.
Poker_Player 10/12/2009 5:29pm
10/12/2009 5:29pm
GuyB wrote:
Fantasyland insiders? Wink
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Hey, go back and look at what you used to make fun of me when I posted about how this economy would look right now. I...
Hey, go back and look at what you used to make fun of me when I posted about how this economy would look right now. I believe it was 5-6 years ago. Got made fun of by you and others. I looked crazy then, but now "can't touch this" LOL. Seriously, you guys think this is crazy talk about 2 strokes. But just sit back and watch. The 250F will soon be a fading fad. Maybe the 350F will be taking over the 450's. I don't know. I just know that times are changing. Chevy, Ford etc didn't want to heed warnings about what people wanted. Now they get a bailout from the govt. Dealers are forcing a 4 stroke instead of selling a backroom 2 stroke. Just watch and learn boys, Just watch and learn. penguins on the movie "smile and wave boys"
Lightning78 wrote:
He's right you guys .....things will change it's just going to take a while for the market to react.
Things will change? Amazing!Woohoo
Othreehundred 10/12/2009 5:43pm
10/12/2009 5:43pm
I have a 2010 KTM 450sxf I got about a month ago. Great bike ive had every brand 450 since 07 and the ktm is by far my favorite. The 350 sounds like a awesome bike and does not suprise me KTM is making it. The 150 is a great bike I have 2 buddies that have them one races the pro class againts 250's and 450's locally and does real well on it . Even if 350cc's take over I hope they dont stop making 450 cc bikes. I rode 500's for 12 years then the 400 yz came out in 99' then shortly after that no open class and it was 450's. Now I feel like a siberian tiger (endagered) that ill have to ride a 350 sxf or get a off road model. I sure hope ktm still makes the 450 sxf models and they can keep linkage but I wont complain if they have to use it. I know tons of guys on the list for the 2010 yz450 and others buying there loyal brand 250 or 450 2010 models. I talk to guys and see alot keeping there 08 or 09 models because of the econmoy but for the most part it seems the same to me people are buying 2010 still.
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shaner708 10/12/2009 5:52pm
10/12/2009 5:52pm
For the first time since 4 strokes came out basically, The 3 out of the top 4 in the A classes, and two of the top 4 in the B classes were on two strokes at Steel City. I think things are starting to change, guys are switching back. There were plenty of KXs too
BobbyM
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BobbyM 10/12/2009 7:09pm
10/12/2009 7:09pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Who's buying a 2010 bike? I might be getting a KTM 150sx. But I saw the post on Motonews and it looks like a lot of...
Who's buying a 2010 bike? I might be getting a KTM 150sx. But I saw the post on Motonews and it looks like a lot of people are forgoing it. Obviously the economy is bad. But, maybe along with that, KTM is also picking up share? Just my thoughts. What if? Proof that expensive bikes aren't the fad anymore? Guess time will tell. But seems that Yamaha and KTM are gonna be the only one's with good sales if people start going to the "cheaper" version. Hopefully Yamaha will make enough for demand this year. Again, talking 250f compared to 250 2 stroke.
since when does not having money or even a job means you ain't getting a new dirtbike? that falls under one of those "gotta have" necessities i believe...
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2T42 10/12/2009 7:50pm
10/12/2009 7:50pm
The big 4 will lose sales to the likes of KTM and some to TM with the FI 2 stroke. They will cry because sales are down never realizing that they are losing them completely to the KTM's and such. I think its pretty funny really. I hope the big 4 sleep long and hard and give the Euros a good foothold on the 2 stroke and lower price points in the market. There are too many sales suppressed at the best selling price points (below 7k) to ignore totally. They just left the back door wide open with plenty of capable bike makers to walk in.
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Torco1 10/12/2009 8:06pm
10/12/2009 8:06pm
Each and ever time I go to the track(s) and I go 2-3 times a week, I make it a point to look and see how many 4-strokes are out there and how many 2-strokes are out there. Within the past 6 months or so I've been seeing the 2-strokes slowly catch the amount of 4-strokes that are out there. 2-strokes are definitley sticking around and the demand is there for them. If the big 4 dont get their heads out of their asses they are just going to bury themselves. It all comes down to pride with them and the way it stands right now, they have to much pride to admit that trying to phase out the 2-stroke with the 4-stroke was not the right move.
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ProMed 10/12/2009 8:12pm
10/12/2009 8:12pm
Othreehundred wrote:
I have a 2010 KTM 450sxf I got about a month ago. Great bike ive had every brand 450 since 07 and the ktm is by...
I have a 2010 KTM 450sxf I got about a month ago. Great bike ive had every brand 450 since 07 and the ktm is by far my favorite. The 350 sounds like a awesome bike and does not suprise me KTM is making it. The 150 is a great bike I have 2 buddies that have them one races the pro class againts 250's and 450's locally and does real well on it . Even if 350cc's take over I hope they dont stop making 450 cc bikes. I rode 500's for 12 years then the 400 yz came out in 99' then shortly after that no open class and it was 450's. Now I feel like a siberian tiger (endagered) that ill have to ride a 350 sxf or get a off road model. I sure hope ktm still makes the 450 sxf models and they can keep linkage but I wont complain if they have to use it. I know tons of guys on the list for the 2010 yz450 and others buying there loyal brand 250 or 450 2010 models. I talk to guys and see alot keeping there 08 or 09 models because of the econmoy but for the most part it seems the same to me people are buying 2010 still.
"ive had every brand 450 since 07"
Really?
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 10/12/2009 8:25pm
10/12/2009 8:25pm
Everytime I hear a 2-stroke I'm almost surprised! (It was almost...what's the term? HEART-WARMING! to hear one during the Steel City Motos!)

Hey, I love them; but, apart from all the wishful thinkin' goin' on...here...in a forum...on the web...

2-Strokes are gonna go from endangered to extinct.

It's jus' a matter of time.

I blame Bilko!

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