So there you have it….250 vs 250

VET176
Posts
1359
Joined
5/13/2011
Location
Brisbane AU
Edited Date/Time 8/30/2015 1:32pm
Overall Australian MX2 points for 2015: (after 10 rounds)

1 Jay Wilson 600
2 Luke Clout 559
3 Takeshi Katsuya 541
4 Jed Beaton 499
5 Caleb Ward 473
6 Nathan Crawford 456
7 Wade Hunter 447
8 Geran Stapleton 403
9 Dylan Wills 388
10 Jack Simpson 354

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I can only see one 2 stroke rider on that list.

Can someone please tell me again why it would be such a terrible idea to allow 250 2 strokes in the AMA "250" & FIM MX2 classes again?

PS: BT101 won the last round. Smile
|
haydos25
Posts
1689
Joined
8/4/2010
Location
Sydney AU
Fantasy
3333rd
8/29/2015 11:10pm
Well going off that logic it wouldn't matter because nobody would ride them as the four stroke is obviously the superior machine. Wink

The fastest riders this year rode 4 strokes and that's how those results came about. Also interesting to note a few of the 2 stroke stand outs from last year went back to 4 strokes this year for one reason or another
jock
Posts
1591
Joined
9/25/2006
Location
Postmans Ridge, QLD AU
Fantasy
1st
8/29/2015 11:52pm
The manufacturers got their wish with the rule changes. Only 33 riders in the 250 class, what was the number last year? Sad


8/30/2015 2:26am Edited Date/Time 8/30/2015 2:27am
haydos25 wrote:
Well going off that logic it wouldn't matter because nobody would ride them as the four stroke is obviously the superior machine. ;) The fastest riders...
Well going off that logic it wouldn't matter because nobody would ride them as the four stroke is obviously the superior machine. Wink

The fastest riders this year rode 4 strokes and that's how those results came about. Also interesting to note a few of the 2 stroke stand outs from last year went back to 4 strokes this year for one reason or another
The fastest riders could raced a modified four stroke, rather than a stock two stroke, as per the rules.

That's what happened!

Last year the meeting I went to, it was 22 four strokes and 23 two strokes.

The Shop

Crush
Posts
20962
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
8/30/2015 2:34am
cwtoyota wrote:
What about Canada?
I believe this rule is in its 3rd year in Aus and just done 2nd in Canada.

So far its 3-2 four strokes and 5-0 fastest rider won regardless.

Would be interesting to compare track surfaces and see if that has a bearing at all, but the most interesting thing is watching the strengths of the different bikes around a track.

Derpin' DJ
Posts
6308
Joined
5/27/2011
Location
Newcastle AU
Fantasy
2803rd
8/30/2015 3:36am
Hardly fair considering all the restrictions they enforced to the 2 strokes
Really? Not allowing them to be 60hp rockets in unfair? I'm sure jetting and an exhaust system is plenty to make a stock 250 2t competitive with a "factory" 250F (and lets be honest, Australian factory 250Fs aren't that factory)
h&m_cycle
Posts
4412
Joined
2/23/2014
Location
Steubenville, OH US
8/30/2015 4:40am
Let's have another rule change down under... No Rev Limiter...
Bearuno
Posts
4145
Joined
6/28/2014
Location
AU
8/30/2015 5:28am
h&m_cycle wrote:
Let's have another rule change down under... No Rev Limiter...
You want to make racing 4ts even more expensive, do you? Hell, even in the 450 class it's cacophony of stuttering.

The amount of Kaboom ,KABOOMs ( with respect to Ricco the PengUin) would be quite entertaining.
newmann
Posts
24444
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
8/30/2015 6:17am
Hardly fair considering all the restrictions they enforced to the 2 strokes
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Really? Not allowing them to be 60hp rockets in unfair? I'm sure jetting and an exhaust system is plenty to make a stock 250 2t competitive...
Really? Not allowing them to be 60hp rockets in unfair? I'm sure jetting and an exhaust system is plenty to make a stock 250 2t competitive with a "factory" 250F (and lets be honest, Australian factory 250Fs aren't that factory)
Yeah, that double displacement shit was really fair too wasn't it...
reded
Posts
3685
Joined
3/26/2011
Location
KS US
8/30/2015 6:44am
Hardly fair considering all the restrictions they enforced to the 2 strokes
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Really? Not allowing them to be 60hp rockets in unfair? I'm sure jetting and an exhaust system is plenty to make a stock 250 2t competitive...
Really? Not allowing them to be 60hp rockets in unfair? I'm sure jetting and an exhaust system is plenty to make a stock 250 2t competitive with a "factory" 250F (and lets be honest, Australian factory 250Fs aren't that factory)
newmann wrote:
Yeah, that double displacement shit was really fair too wasn't it...
Most ridiculous rule ever imposed in all of motorsports.
ti473
Posts
882
Joined
3/17/2012
Location
Arlington Heights, IL US
8/30/2015 6:55am
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Really? Not allowing them to be 60hp rockets in unfair? I'm sure jetting and an exhaust system is plenty to make a stock 250 2t competitive...
Really? Not allowing them to be 60hp rockets in unfair? I'm sure jetting and an exhaust system is plenty to make a stock 250 2t competitive with a "factory" 250F (and lets be honest, Australian factory 250Fs aren't that factory)
newmann wrote:
Yeah, that double displacement shit was really fair too wasn't it...
reded wrote:
Most ridiculous rule ever imposed in all of motorsports.
umm doesn't a turd take twice the strokes per cycle though???
burn1986
Posts
9786
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA US
Fantasy
3311th
8/30/2015 6:59am Edited Date/Time 8/30/2015 7:06am
VET176 wrote:
Overall Australian MX2 points for 2015: (after 10 rounds) 1 Jay Wilson 600 2 Luke Clout 559 3 Takeshi Katsuya 541 4 Jed Beaton 499 5...
Overall Australian MX2 points for 2015: (after 10 rounds)

1 Jay Wilson 600
2 Luke Clout 559
3 Takeshi Katsuya 541
4 Jed Beaton 499
5 Caleb Ward 473
6 Nathan Crawford 456
7 Wade Hunter 447
8 Geran Stapleton 403
9 Dylan Wills 388
10 Jack Simpson 354

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I can only see one 2 stroke rider on that list.

Can someone please tell me again why it would be such a terrible idea to allow 250 2 strokes in the AMA "250" & FIM MX2 classes again?

PS: BT101 won the last round. Smile
Which ones were on 2-strokes? I don't think the point for having them in AMA Pro MX/ SX has been which is fastest, but giving the privateer and teams a cheaper alternative.

DC uses the "faster" argument to try and keep them out, alleging that factory riders could show up on a 2-stroke and destroy everyone, but everyone knows this is not the case, and race results consistently show otherwise. But it's his show, he can do what he wants.
.kyle
Posts
469
Joined
6/5/2011
Location
GB
8/30/2015 7:03am Edited Date/Time 8/30/2015 7:04am
Physics crap. It is a very unfair rule - 250cc is 250cc, regardless of strokes. Time for equal displacement racing everywhere.
.kyle
Posts
469
Joined
6/5/2011
Location
GB
8/30/2015 7:09am
You said it - They (4st) have come such a long way now, that there needs to be equal displacement racing everywhere.

Each has their own advantage depending on terrain. Stankdog is only one rider.
Bearuno
Posts
4145
Joined
6/28/2014
Location
AU
8/30/2015 7:58am
As entertaining and skillfull a rider Stankdog is, I don't think we need to have a race class set by his thoughts.

Modern 4ts are far past being XR level engines.

What I always find funny ( well, no actually pathetic) is usually those bleating about equivalency not being fair, will be the ones that think 4ts are the better ICE format . Thus, showing what can only be their level of stupidity.

The often quoted DC opinion of it being unfair? - yet in the other series he is the 'boss' of, GNCC, he has had equivalency in the XC2 class for a few years now. Without devistation of the 4ts. Sort of disproves the theory, doesn't it? Come on DC, be brave and get rid of this handicap class BS.

Look to Moto 3. Hondas' basic customer model had 47 HP on it's release a few years ago. KTMs customer level RC had 49/ 50 (a much more 'serious' effort that Honda got all pissy about - what do you expect Honda, it's racing, yah flaming Nongs). Now fully kitted front running Moto 3 Bikes are said to be in the high 50s, and maybe early 60 HP levels (with good mid range performance now) whilst having 13,500 rev limits, control fuelling / Electrical systems and set kit / upgrade prices and availability.. Ideas that could help control MX costs.

Equivalency : the only way to have real racing.

If you are not for it, you are admitting the inferiority of the 4t - well, really, you are showing your lack of knowledge of just how good 4ts really are, and , with still a lot more to come.
justpinit
Posts
434
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
British Columbia CA
8/30/2015 8:16am
Now that Benoit has to move up to 450's after 2 MX2 titles in a row, the 2-stroke threat won't be nearly as strong in Canada next season. I personally don't think the results would've changed much with a different bike. Benoit is hot right now and his riding has been picture perfect for a couple of seasons!

Too bad....loved seeing Kaven winning with the 2-stroke......on any terrain!!

Sand:



Mud:



And of course, when the dirt is good:

loftyair
Posts
2769
Joined
7/3/2009
Location
riverside, CA US
8/30/2015 9:53am
So to make the power equal, we should weigh the riders with full gear, and add weight to make sure its equal. Peick can ride a lighter bike than baggett. Pourcel likes a smooth mellow power, too bad, make him ride a 450. Lets just let everyone ride what they can ride the best.
Bearuno
Posts
4145
Joined
6/28/2014
Location
AU
8/30/2015 10:55am
Equivalency up to the maximum capacity of a class, any type of naturally aspirated ICE, for those that are trying to ad something else to this.

Oh, and by the way , haven't you noticed that CP raced a 450 this year? By many accounts, he does run a relatively 'mellow' engine setting. That's the beauty of racing, being able to set up a bike to your preferences. What one person likes, may be anathema to another.
VET176
Posts
1359
Joined
5/13/2011
Location
Brisbane AU
8/30/2015 1:03pm
burn1986 wrote:
Which ones were on 2-strokes? I don't think the point for having them in AMA Pro MX/ SX has been which is fastest, but giving the...
Which ones were on 2-strokes? I don't think the point for having them in AMA Pro MX/ SX has been which is fastest, but giving the privateer and teams a cheaper alternative.

DC uses the "faster" argument to try and keep them out, alleging that factory riders could show up on a 2-stroke and destroy everyone, but everyone knows this is not the case, and race results consistently show otherwise. But it's his show, he can do what he wants.
I believe Dylan Wills in 9th was on a 250SX.





TeamGreen
Posts
29097
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
8/30/2015 1:23pm
Haven't we already been told they'll be back and now they have to be stock from the Air-Boot to the exhaust port (excluding jetting)?

Post a reply to: So there you have it….250 vs 250

The Latest