So much passing in '93 Supercross

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7/15/2017 8:35 PM

This is some great racing, and the tracks are very slow compared to today. It's crazy how much more action there was in this race, and they are crawling compared to today's race speeds. (1993 Houston Supercross)

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7/15/2017 10:10 PM

Guy Cooper... one of my all-time favorites. Such a badass.

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7/15/2017 10:12 PM

2 stroke. That's why.

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"If you are going through HELL, keep going."-Winston Churchill
"A man needs a little madness or else he never dares cut the rope and be free"-Zorba
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7/15/2017 10:33 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/15/2017 10:42 PM

Bradshaw, Cooper, Stanton, Kiedrowski,and McGrath. Such a contrast of riding styles and bikes. I think I heard Cooper was 31 in that race...awesome. Crazy that the rookie (who finished fifth) would go on to win 4 straight right after Houston...10 of the remaining 15.

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7/15/2017 10:51 PM

oldblood wrote:

2 stroke. That's why.

Bingo....watch Anaheim 99 .......2000.......97.....shit, it doesn't matter, the racing was crazy! I just started watching some of the old races again, even I had forgot how much better it was for the most part.

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Did i do that?

7/15/2017 10:53 PM

And the tracks! It was so much more like excite bike! Up and down....round and round! More option sections! Of course a lot of this was based off the machines at the time. Just a good combination.

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Did i do that?

7/16/2017 5:38 AM

You generally had a hard to ride bike with peaky powerbands, you had interesting tracks with proper sized whoops and steep transitions in the jumps. Add all that together and you get lots of mistakes and thus lots of passing.

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7/16/2017 5:40 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/16/2017 5:40 AM

I'd like to add that Larocco had a pretty sweet mullet.

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7/16/2017 6:57 AM

Travis_Hudson wrote:

And the tracks! It was so much more like excite bike! Up and down....round and round! More option sections! Of course a lot of this was based off the machines at the time. Just a good combination.

I don't think it was the bikes as much as it was the track, but even more than that it was just the general progression of the sport. Put today's riders on those bikes on today's tracks and it looks completely different.

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7/16/2017 7:24 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/16/2017 7:29 AM

Those bikes had to be ridden perfect to go fast. So they make mistakes. Passes happen. AND there was a reason to go outside... momentum. And again another passing opportunity opens.

Tracks were made of obstacles that weren't do or die, but you needed to do 1 to do 2 etc because of the bikes...

4 strokes. Mistake. Gas it. Clear it. Everyone can do it if they've got the nuts, add some skill, take away some berms and dirt, some 180s and you get follow the leader.

It's mind boggling "they" haven't addressed it.

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Cheers, Crush
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7/16/2017 7:29 AM

The tracks started to change a little in 01 .......they got a little faster. It was for sure a combo of track and machine though. Four strokes would struggle on something that peaky......maybe not the 250f's so much but the bigger bikes for sure.

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Did i do that?

7/16/2017 8:07 AM

Get rid of stupid on/off jumps. Might as well have just have a flat straight....

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7/16/2017 9:08 AM

the early bar to bar videos are a good watch also...



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7/16/2017 10:03 AM

There is no passing happening on a rhythm section with gigantic jumps.
It seems like riders would get hurt less on those older tracks with the slower speeds, but I don't really remember that being the case. Maybe there are fewer of the big career-enders.

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It's impossible for a corporation or government to love you or care about you.

7/16/2017 10:21 AM

I think the issue comes down to one concept, "flow".

We hear all kinds of complaints that a track needs to have "flow", but that's just a way of making a track easier and faster. Throw a wall obstacle on a couple of straights on every track, stop designing tracks with the intention of a 3-3-2 combo, etc. That would slow things down, but it would also probably lead to more runaway wins when a technical specialist would master things so much faster and easier than all the other riders, ala McGrath......

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7/16/2017 10:37 AM

APLMAN99 wrote:

I think the issue comes down to one concept, "flow".

We hear all kinds of complaints that a track needs to have "flow", but that's just a way of making a track easier and faster. Throw a wall obstacle on a couple of straights on every track, stop designing tracks with the intention of a 3-3-2 combo, etc. That would slow things down, but it would also probably lead to more runaway wins when a technical specialist would master things so much faster and easier than all the other riders, ala McGrath......

Back then the riders had no say in the tracks, as far as I am aware (not that tracks back then didn't have some serious issues). Maybe the complaints from certain riders today that the tracks don't resemble their manicured SX tracks at home is why there is less competition.
Look at Anaheim 1986- that does not look like a fun track to ride at all, very little "flow." But one of the best races in SX history.

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It's impossible for a corporation or government to love you or care about you.

7/16/2017 10:43 AM

It is amazing how much the riding style has changed. Those guys looks like something you would see in a Canard goon riding video....smile

Why would someone think a four stroke could not handle the peaked jump faces? The bikes are not physically bigger (minus the Yamaha wink )

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

7/16/2017 10:46 AM

BobPA wrote:

It is amazing how much the riding style has changed. Those guys looks like something you would see in a Canard goon riding video....smile

Why would someone think a four stroke could not handle the peaked jump faces? The bikes are not physically bigger (minus the Yamaha wink )

I don't think it's the peaked faces themselves that are the issue, it'd be the postage stamp sized landings.

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7/16/2017 2:52 PM

APLMAN99 wrote:

I don't think it's the peaked faces themselves that are the issue, it'd be the postage stamp sized landings.

How does that matter at all?

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

7/16/2017 5:45 PM

BobPA wrote:

It is amazing how much the riding style has changed. Those guys looks like something you would see in a Canard goon riding video....smile

Why would someone think a four stroke could not handle the peaked jump faces? The bikes are not physically bigger (minus the Yamaha wink )

APLMAN99 wrote:

I don't think it's the peaked faces themselves that are the issue, it'd be the postage stamp sized landings.

BobPA wrote:

How does that matter at all?

Well, flat landings are a whole lot less desirable than the current fantastically prepped, smooth, long, and forgiving landing ramps that are currently built.

Building peaked jumps and walls that don't have smooth landings built for triples would naturally slow things down and disrupt that magical "flow".... Cc

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7/16/2017 6:28 PM

I forgot how wild Cooper was! Funny thing is, I don't remember him getting hurt much, locally.

Man, he and Cliff Plamer used to have some local batlles for the ages.

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much ty. How to spot a paid forum poster/artificial forum traffic producer (see list of actions/phrases below):

Copius pattern amounts of phrases like “Anyone have”..., “Anybody know?”.... and their variations.

Thoughts?
Any help is appreciated!
Thanks in advance!





7/16/2017 7:52 PM

BobPA wrote:

It is amazing how much the riding style has changed. Those guys looks like something you would see in a Canard goon riding video....smile

Why would someone think a four stroke could not handle the peaked jump faces? The bikes are not physically bigger (minus the Yamaha wink )

You try to wrestle a 450 around something like that. On a four stroke where you would get shot straight up and have to choke back down, is a lot harder on a thumper with so much inertia.

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Did i do that?

7/16/2017 8:26 PM

BobPA wrote:

It is amazing how much the riding style has changed. Those guys looks like something you would see in a Canard goon riding video....smile

Why would someone think a four stroke could not handle the peaked jump faces? The bikes are not physically bigger (minus the Yamaha wink )

This! ( your first paragraph )

Heck I think even I would try to ride that track and I'm not a skilled rider by any means , but nothing looks even remotely as big as the jumps/ obstacles do now a days.

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7/16/2017 11:09 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/16/2017 11:59 PM

BobPA wrote:

It is amazing how much the riding style has changed. Those guys looks like something you would see in a Canard goon riding video....smile

Why would someone think a four stroke could not handle the peaked jump faces? The bikes are not physically bigger (minus the Yamaha wink )

dirtnapper wrote:

This! ( your first paragraph )

Heck I think even I would try to ride that track and I'm not a skilled rider by any means , but nothing looks even remotely as big as the jumps/ obstacles do now a days.

Take a look at the first lap when Kehoe skies a triple-- freaking insane. I think they had a better ratio of jumps to other obstacles at that time.
It is hard to put your finger on. But these guys were doing huge, technical obstacles back then. There was no freight train like now, but this is just one race. I think if you slow the tracks down and put more variety of obstacles in there, the racing would be better, But the riders would complain it isn't the same track Dirt Werks built at their house!

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It's impossible for a corporation or government to love you or care about you.

7/16/2017 11:15 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/16/2017 11:57 PM

Bradshaw is like 20 years old in this video and looks like a mountain man that eats raw squirrels for breakfast.
At the 37 minute mark, Despain says Cooper is 31 y.o. In 1993? You are telling me Cooper is almost 54 years old now??

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It's impossible for a corporation or government to love you or care about you.

7/17/2017 10:52 AM

BobPA wrote:

It is amazing how much the riding style has changed. Those guys looks like something you would see in a Canard goon riding video....smile

Why would someone think a four stroke could not handle the peaked jump faces? The bikes are not physically bigger (minus the Yamaha wink )

dirtnapper wrote:

This! ( your first paragraph )

Heck I think even I would try to ride that track and I'm not a skilled rider by any means , but nothing looks even remotely as big as the jumps/ obstacles do now a days.

I'm pretty sure dirtnapper would look like a canard goon riding video if you "would try to ride that track". Stamp it.

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7/17/2017 10:55 AM

NorCal 50+ wrote:

Bradshaw is like 20 years old in this video and looks like a mountain man that eats raw squirrels for breakfast.
At the 37 minute mark, Despain says Cooper is 31 y.o. In 1993? You are telling me Cooper is almost 54 years old now??

Yeah, 55 I believe.

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7/17/2017 11:09 AM

Travis_Hudson wrote:

You try to wrestle a 450 around something like that. On a four stroke where you would get shot straight up and have to choke back down, is a lot harder on a thumper with so much inertia.

You're high or blind if you think it would be harder to ride a 450 on a technical track like that. I own a 450, 250 2 stroke, and a 125...On a track, it is 100% easier to be more precise and consistent on my 450.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

7/17/2017 1:26 PM

BobPA wrote:

It is amazing how much the riding style has changed. Those guys looks like something you would see in a Canard goon riding video....smile

Why would someone think a four stroke could not handle the peaked jump faces? The bikes are not physically bigger (minus the Yamaha wink )

dirtnapper wrote:

This! ( your first paragraph )

Heck I think even I would try to ride that track and I'm not a skilled rider by any means , but nothing looks even remotely as big as the jumps/ obstacles do now a days.

Markee wrote:

I'm pretty sure dirtnapper would look like a canard goon riding video if you "would try to ride that track". Stamp it.

Almost certainly!! tongue

But I'd still try it!

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