Silly Season...

wicksy85
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wicksy85 8/28/2020 1:49pm
8/28/2020 1:49pm
langhammx wrote:
Barcia- TLD GasGas (done)
Ferrandis - Star Yamaha/ 450 (done)

Let’s try and keep up... Tongue
tek14 wrote:
Mookie - Star Yamaha 450 done... when we will see him first time on new blue bike?
Him leaving Seven will be bloody hard, they must've opened the cheque book
1
BroFoSho
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BroFoSho 8/28/2020 1:51pm
8/28/2020 1:51pm
langhammx wrote:
Barcia- TLD GasGas (done)
Ferrandis - Star Yamaha/ 450 (done)

Let’s try and keep up... Tongue
tek14 wrote:
Mookie - Star Yamaha 450 done... when we will see him first time on new blue bike?
He's a bigger dude so here's hoping he can make that blue pig work
1
Zycki11
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Zycki11 8/28/2020 2:07pm
8/28/2020 2:07pm
langhammx wrote:
Barcia- TLD GasGas (done)
Ferrandis - Star Yamaha/ 450 (done)

Let’s try and keep up... Tongue
tek14 wrote:
Mookie - Star Yamaha 450 done... when we will see him first time on new blue bike?
BroFoSho wrote:
He's a bigger dude so here's hoping he can make that blue pig work
Barcia is a little dude. He made it work just fine.
3
Dimblewambie
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Dimblewambie 8/28/2020 2:17pm
8/28/2020 2:17pm
langhammx wrote:
Barcia- TLD GasGas (done)
Ferrandis - Star Yamaha/ 450 (done)

Let’s try and keep up... Tongue
tek14 wrote:
Mookie - Star Yamaha 450 done... when we will see him first time on new blue bike?
wicksy85 wrote:
Him leaving Seven will be bloody hard, they must've opened the cheque book
If I had to guess, he’ll still be in Seven. 450 side of the team will be individual gear deals and 250 side a team deal. Like Husky, JGR etc.
9

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avidchimp
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avidchimp 8/28/2020 2:37pm
8/28/2020 2:37pm
tek14 wrote:
Mookie - Star Yamaha 450 done... when we will see him first time on new blue bike?
wicksy85 wrote:
Him leaving Seven will be bloody hard, they must've opened the cheque book
Dimblewambie wrote:
If I had to guess, he’ll still be in Seven. 450 side of the team will be individual gear deals and 250 side a team deal...
If I had to guess, he’ll still be in Seven. 450 side of the team will be individual gear deals and 250 side a team deal. Like Husky, JGR etc.
Correct.
2
ML512
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ML512 8/28/2020 4:43pm
8/28/2020 4:43pm
langhammx wrote:
Barcia- TLD GasGas (done)
Ferrandis - Star Yamaha/ 450 (done)

Let’s try and keep up... Tongue
tek14 wrote:
Mookie - Star Yamaha 450 done... when we will see him first time on new blue bike?
wicksy85 wrote:
Him leaving Seven will be bloody hard, they must've opened the cheque book
I wouldn't be surprised if the 450 guys get to do their own gear deals. I've heard from a few brands that Ferrandis was shopping for a gear deal with his 450 status...so I'm guessing Malcolm could be allowed to keep Seven.
6
motomoto652
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motomoto652 8/28/2020 5:35pm
8/28/2020 5:35pm
hamncheeze wrote:
Look at MXGP right now. The class is super deep. A rider like Desalle or Paulin could get 5th overall one weekend and 15th the next...
Look at MXGP right now. The class is super deep. A rider like Desalle or Paulin could get 5th overall one weekend and 15th the next. I'm not saying the age rule over there is perfect, but it would be awesome to have both Martins, Hampshire, Ferrandis and McElrath all moving up for 2021. But there are not enough rides.

This comes down to SX. The split coasts in 250 double up the number of 250 rides available. And as Matthes loves to point out, the 250 riders get pretty much the same exposure at the race and on the broadcast as the 450 riders. So the manufacturers can invest less money in salary to get more bikes on the track overall by having large 250 teams.
RichieW13 wrote:
Looking at McElrath's situation specifically. I assume Star Yamaha is paying him a salary. In a normal year, they are taking him to 9 rounds of...
Looking at McElrath's situation specifically. I assume Star Yamaha is paying him a salary. In a normal year, they are taking him to 9 rounds of SX and 12 rounds of MX. Apparently they have the staff available to support 4 guys at one time, since 4 would usually be at an MX round.

So if McElrath gets bumped to 450, why can't Star just keep him in their truck on a 450? They pay him the same salary. They just need to bring him to 8 more rounds of SX. But their truck is going to those rounds anyway. So they would be supporting 3 riders at SX for half the season and 2 riders for the other half. Is there a significant cost increase somewhere that I don't understand?

Also, it seems like bringing back the Semi Final races would be helpful for the second-tier 450 racers to get more exposure. That's essentially the 9th and 10th best guys getting the chance to win a race, get an interview, etc. Were teams/sponsor in favor of eliminating that race, or was it strictly a TV decision? Was it too difficult of a turnaround to have to get some riders on the track for up to 4 races (Heat, Semi, LCQ, main)?
ML512 wrote:
Star is going to be running 450s next year but as of now it looks like they already have three 450 riders. Star 450 - Aaron...
Star is going to be running 450s next year but as of now it looks like they already have three 450 riders.

Star 450 - Aaron Plessinger, Dylan Ferrandis, Malcolm Stewart (SX only)

Star 250 - Justin Cooper, Christian Craig, Jarret Frye, Colt Nichols (or ??? Instead of Colt...maybe Gonzales?)

Amateurs - Matt Leblanc, Nick Romano, and possibly one more

It’s already a huge team...add in McElrath and they would need four 450s.
ML so you’re saying Colt isn’t locked up at Star? I figured that was a forgone conclusion....
-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 8/28/2020 5:49pm
8/28/2020 5:49pm
motomoto652 wrote:
ML so you’re saying Colt isn’t locked up at Star? I figured that was a forgone conclusion....
He's in his last year of his contract. I wouldn't be surprised to see him replaced.
1
ML512
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ML512 8/28/2020 6:02pm
8/28/2020 6:02pm
RichieW13 wrote:
Looking at McElrath's situation specifically. I assume Star Yamaha is paying him a salary. In a normal year, they are taking him to 9 rounds of...
Looking at McElrath's situation specifically. I assume Star Yamaha is paying him a salary. In a normal year, they are taking him to 9 rounds of SX and 12 rounds of MX. Apparently they have the staff available to support 4 guys at one time, since 4 would usually be at an MX round.

So if McElrath gets bumped to 450, why can't Star just keep him in their truck on a 450? They pay him the same salary. They just need to bring him to 8 more rounds of SX. But their truck is going to those rounds anyway. So they would be supporting 3 riders at SX for half the season and 2 riders for the other half. Is there a significant cost increase somewhere that I don't understand?

Also, it seems like bringing back the Semi Final races would be helpful for the second-tier 450 racers to get more exposure. That's essentially the 9th and 10th best guys getting the chance to win a race, get an interview, etc. Were teams/sponsor in favor of eliminating that race, or was it strictly a TV decision? Was it too difficult of a turnaround to have to get some riders on the track for up to 4 races (Heat, Semi, LCQ, main)?
ML512 wrote:
Star is going to be running 450s next year but as of now it looks like they already have three 450 riders. Star 450 - Aaron...
Star is going to be running 450s next year but as of now it looks like they already have three 450 riders.

Star 450 - Aaron Plessinger, Dylan Ferrandis, Malcolm Stewart (SX only)

Star 250 - Justin Cooper, Christian Craig, Jarret Frye, Colt Nichols (or ??? Instead of Colt...maybe Gonzales?)

Amateurs - Matt Leblanc, Nick Romano, and possibly one more

It’s already a huge team...add in McElrath and they would need four 450s.
motomoto652 wrote:
ML so you’re saying Colt isn’t locked up at Star? I figured that was a forgone conclusion....
With the youth coming up, Star is going to be in the same position as TLD or Geico has found themselves in. Do you let the kids go elsewhere and stick it out with your current investments...or do you cut your losses on someone who hasn't quite been able to get it done and go with your youth commitment. It's a tough spot to be in on all sides.

Interesting note, someone told me Garrett Marchbanks was offered a contract by Star...and the back and forth with that deal and PC may have cost him both rides. We'll have to wait and see how it plays out.
10
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ML512
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ML512 8/28/2020 8:29pm
8/28/2020 8:29pm
Johnny Ringo wrote:
So Barcia giving up the Astars $$$?
If he goes to GasGas, yes.
Motofinne
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Motofinne 8/29/2020 2:24am
8/29/2020 2:24am Edited Date/Time 8/29/2020 2:25am
ML512 wrote:
Star is going to be running 450s next year but as of now it looks like they already have three 450 riders. Star 450 - Aaron...
Star is going to be running 450s next year but as of now it looks like they already have three 450 riders.

Star 450 - Aaron Plessinger, Dylan Ferrandis, Malcolm Stewart (SX only)

Star 250 - Justin Cooper, Christian Craig, Jarret Frye, Colt Nichols (or ??? Instead of Colt...maybe Gonzales?)

Amateurs - Matt Leblanc, Nick Romano, and possibly one more

It’s already a huge team...add in McElrath and they would need four 450s.
ronniemacwannabie wrote:
CC to star surprises me.. Obviously he’s fast but hasn’t put a solid season together in what seems like forever. Seems like there’s plenty of younger...
CC to star surprises me.. Obviously he’s fast but hasn’t put a solid season together in what seems like forever. Seems like there’s plenty of younger riders with “more” potential I.e Marchbanks, Masterpool..
I can't understand the signing of CC at all. He has lost the raw speed (or the others have stepped their game up) that resulted in some really promising results years ago but he makes more mistakes than ever. His 2020 SX was horrible. Crashes after crashes, like a 18 year old rookie.

I'm happy if he proves me wrong in 2021 on Star but i doubt it.
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mxer433
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mxer433 8/29/2020 2:40am
8/29/2020 2:40am
Motofinne wrote:
I can't understand the signing of CC at all. He has lost the raw speed (or the others have stepped their game up) that resulted in...
I can't understand the signing of CC at all. He has lost the raw speed (or the others have stepped their game up) that resulted in some really promising results years ago but he makes more mistakes than ever. His 2020 SX was horrible. Crashes after crashes, like a 18 year old rookie.

I'm happy if he proves me wrong in 2021 on Star but i doubt it.
Brother is the motor guy at star.
DonM
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DonM 8/29/2020 5:11am
8/29/2020 5:11am
Buckland wrote:
McElrath needs to beat it. He and Craig need to get out of the 250s.
RichieW13 wrote:
What about Jeremy Martin? Martin has more championships than McElrath. He's been in the class a year longer. He has way more outdoor wins. They have...
What about Jeremy Martin? Martin has more championships than McElrath. He's been in the class a year longer. He has way more outdoor wins. They have been about equal in SX accomplishments, but McElrath is probably a little ahead of him.

I wish there was a better way to get these guys into the 450 class, but on the other hand, how useful is it to have them on a 450 and roll around in 15th place?
Buckland wrote:
Both Martins need to leave 250s too imo. It sucks that not everyone can race forever, but I'd rather have young guys coming up with their...
Both Martins need to leave 250s too imo. It sucks that not everyone can race forever, but I'd rather have young guys coming up with their hair on fire trying to be great than guys I know will be consistently riding around under that elite level on the only equipment capable of getting someone new there.
Jmart gets a one year pass from me because he had the pace and dealt with what looked like it could be career ending...
So where are they supposed go?? How hard is it for people to understand that the only 450 options these guys have is either privateer or a 2nd level team with little or no salary...so they are supposed to give up a great factory salary and win bonuses to move up to that? It's not their fault that it's only 250 teams that are willing to pay them good money....
6
Buckland
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Buckland 8/29/2020 5:28am
8/29/2020 5:28am
DonM wrote:
So where are they supposed go?? How hard is it for people to understand that the only 450 options these guys have is either privateer or...
So where are they supposed go?? How hard is it for people to understand that the only 450 options these guys have is either privateer or a 2nd level team with little or no salary...so they are supposed to give up a great factory salary and win bonuses to move up to that? It's not their fault that it's only 250 teams that are willing to pay them good money....
I understand the principle of wanting everyone to have a great career and get paid the best they can for as long as they can, I'd just rather see fresh faces. For every guy that is loved and makes good money in 250s for ten years, there is a young guy with talent that never gets his chance. Why is it ok to want guys who have already had success and a real fair chance to continue taking up those positions, when you're basically suppressing the next group of exciting young riders (plenty of young guys are overhyped duds imo, but that's a separate conversation).

Let them take a shot on second level teams, let them go to Canada, let them get real jobs like the rest of us. I want to see guys taking a risk and trying to race in the 450 class against the best.
7
-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 8/29/2020 5:33am
8/29/2020 5:33am
Buckland wrote:
I understand the principle of wanting everyone to have a great career and get paid the best they can for as long as they can, I'd...
I understand the principle of wanting everyone to have a great career and get paid the best they can for as long as they can, I'd just rather see fresh faces. For every guy that is loved and makes good money in 250s for ten years, there is a young guy with talent that never gets his chance. Why is it ok to want guys who have already had success and a real fair chance to continue taking up those positions, when you're basically suppressing the next group of exciting young riders (plenty of young guys are overhyped duds imo, but that's a separate conversation).

Let them take a shot on second level teams, let them go to Canada, let them get real jobs like the rest of us. I want to see guys taking a risk and trying to race in the 450 class against the best.
"For every guy that is loved and makes good money in 250s for ten years, there is a young guy with talent that never gets his chance."

Rides are earned, not given.

People complain about Reed still being on the gate and taking a spot from someone. The thing is, he's not taking anyone's spot. You want his spot? Go out and beat him.

Same thing applies here.
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Buckland
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Buckland 8/29/2020 5:43am
8/29/2020 5:43am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
[i]"For every guy that is loved and makes good money in 250s for ten years, there is a young guy with talent that never gets his...
"For every guy that is loved and makes good money in 250s for ten years, there is a young guy with talent that never gets his chance."

Rides are earned, not given.

People complain about Reed still being on the gate and taking a spot from someone. The thing is, he's not taking anyone's spot. You want his spot? Go out and beat him.

Same thing applies here.
I guess man. Can find you plenty of exceptions but generally I agree with you. Reed's not on a factory bike, and he's not racing 250s.
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 8/29/2020 5:52am
8/29/2020 5:52am Edited Date/Time 8/29/2020 5:55am
Buckland wrote:
I guess man. Can find you plenty of exceptions but generally I agree with you. Reed's not on a factory bike, and he's not racing 250s.
There's no denying that he's not on a factory bike and not in the 250 class, but it doesn't change the fact that the young guys with talent need to be out there battling with the best amateurs in order to get those rides.

It's just how the system works. On a rare occasion you get a guy like Weston Peick that comes along, works his ass off and gets offered a factory ride, but that's not the norm.

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SwapperMX
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SwapperMX 8/29/2020 5:54am
8/29/2020 5:54am
RichieW13 wrote:
What about Jeremy Martin? Martin has more championships than McElrath. He's been in the class a year longer. He has way more outdoor wins. They have...
What about Jeremy Martin? Martin has more championships than McElrath. He's been in the class a year longer. He has way more outdoor wins. They have been about equal in SX accomplishments, but McElrath is probably a little ahead of him.

I wish there was a better way to get these guys into the 450 class, but on the other hand, how useful is it to have them on a 450 and roll around in 15th place?
Buckland wrote:
Both Martins need to leave 250s too imo. It sucks that not everyone can race forever, but I'd rather have young guys coming up with their...
Both Martins need to leave 250s too imo. It sucks that not everyone can race forever, but I'd rather have young guys coming up with their hair on fire trying to be great than guys I know will be consistently riding around under that elite level on the only equipment capable of getting someone new there.
Jmart gets a one year pass from me because he had the pace and dealt with what looked like it could be career ending...
DonM wrote:
So where are they supposed go?? How hard is it for people to understand that the only 450 options these guys have is either privateer or...
So where are they supposed go?? How hard is it for people to understand that the only 450 options these guys have is either privateer or a 2nd level team with little or no salary...so they are supposed to give up a great factory salary and win bonuses to move up to that? It's not their fault that it's only 250 teams that are willing to pay them good money....
Forget about the money being the sole motivator, and it just being a job. These guys are racers and would want to win championships first and foremost. And the only way they do that is on great bikes with a great team supporting them. Man I cringe lately when the media constantly bring up riders pay cheques and racing being a job.
CG118
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CG118 8/29/2020 6:14am
8/29/2020 6:14am
Make no mistake. At some point it becomes a job. Especially in a sport as physically taxing and brutal as MX.
5
SwapperMX
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SwapperMX 8/29/2020 6:28am
8/29/2020 6:28am
CG118 wrote:
Make no mistake. At some point it becomes a job. Especially in a sport as physically taxing and brutal as MX.
You want to be the best at anything, it's going to be tough and take a hell of a lot of work. Driving factors should be passion about what you do and a desire to win. Not fuckin money.
3
bents
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bents 8/29/2020 7:09am
8/29/2020 7:09am
Buckland wrote:
I understand the principle of wanting everyone to have a great career and get paid the best they can for as long as they can, I'd...
I understand the principle of wanting everyone to have a great career and get paid the best they can for as long as they can, I'd just rather see fresh faces. For every guy that is loved and makes good money in 250s for ten years, there is a young guy with talent that never gets his chance. Why is it ok to want guys who have already had success and a real fair chance to continue taking up those positions, when you're basically suppressing the next group of exciting young riders (plenty of young guys are overhyped duds imo, but that's a separate conversation).

Let them take a shot on second level teams, let them go to Canada, let them get real jobs like the rest of us. I want to see guys taking a risk and trying to race in the 450 class against the best.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
[i]"For every guy that is loved and makes good money in 250s for ten years, there is a young guy with talent that never gets his...
"For every guy that is loved and makes good money in 250s for ten years, there is a young guy with talent that never gets his chance."

Rides are earned, not given.

People complain about Reed still being on the gate and taking a spot from someone. The thing is, he's not taking anyone's spot. You want his spot? Go out and beat him.

Same thing applies here.
Mav is spot on here, and Buckland, 99% of these guys will have to get a "real" job soon enough. Only the 1%er's In the sport have enough bank to kick back at 27 and call it a career. In the meantime, plenty of young talent has had opportunity and it hasn't worked out but the guys that have soldiered through all kinds of shit have survived and thrived in the 250 class have earned every bit of their careers through hard work, and it is about the money to a degree obviously. Who is going to take the level of risk and train the way they need to for purely passion sake? Come on, dudes have to make bank while they can in this short window, and if they end up staying in the 250 class for longer than some people like, go ahead and create a team and pay them to ride a 450. JMart had a paved road to the 450 class until injuries put that on hold and what he is doing now is super impressive, and his brother has had incredible speed in shit conditions. When some of these young guns can show up in these conditions and beat these guys then they will get their due. But to be the man, you gotta beat the man.
6
loftyair
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loftyair 8/29/2020 8:13am
8/29/2020 8:13am
This 250/450 vets in small bike class is the probem with the top of this sport. It really needs to go to run what ya brung for real excitement and craziness. A premier and support class. Let them ride what they want to be the best them. Different bike sizes and strokes, mud or sand, changing for the 2nd moto, it would be awesome!
2
8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 8/29/2020 8:16am
8/29/2020 8:16am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
[i]"For every guy that is loved and makes good money in 250s for ten years, there is a young guy with talent that never gets his...
"For every guy that is loved and makes good money in 250s for ten years, there is a young guy with talent that never gets his chance."

Rides are earned, not given.

People complain about Reed still being on the gate and taking a spot from someone. The thing is, he's not taking anyone's spot. You want his spot? Go out and beat him.

Same thing applies here.
Buckland wrote:
I guess man. Can find you plenty of exceptions but generally I agree with you. Reed's not on a factory bike, and he's not racing 250s.
Would you take a "promotion" to go backwards? The problem IMO is the 250's get the same exposure as the 450's adding to the Teams competing there. If it changed where they got second tier TV coverage (like EMX or or other feeder classes) than there would potentially be more 450 teams. The problem with that is there are still only a certain number of riders on the gate so the Teams would likely just disappear. I am not sure what the actual answer is, but I would like to see East/West go away and SX be like outdoors where both classes are "elite", because they are. More sponsors, but could reduce the rides as PC/Geico/Star/Rockstar etc could do it with 2-3 riders instead of 5-6.

1
kpiper
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kpiper 8/29/2020 12:08pm
8/29/2020 12:08pm
Let riders stay on a 250 as long as they want to.

This mandatory moving to the 450 class is bad in many ways in my opinion.
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brocster
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brocster 8/29/2020 9:07pm
8/29/2020 9:07pm
kpiper wrote:
Let riders stay on a 250 as long as they want to. This mandatory moving to the 450 class is bad in many ways in my...
Let riders stay on a 250 as long as they want to.

This mandatory moving to the 450 class is bad in many ways in my opinion.
Agreed. Been saying it for years. Some guys are not built to race 450’s so why force them. It’s almost like forcing them out of a career/ride. They know it and that’s why they sand bag. I.e. Marty D, Mcelrath etc. the young uns can come in an mix it up just like always.
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davis224
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davis224 8/30/2020 6:54am
8/30/2020 6:54am
CG118 wrote:
Make no mistake. At some point it becomes a job. Especially in a sport as physically taxing and brutal as MX.
SwapperMX wrote:
You want to be the best at anything, it's going to be tough and take a hell of a lot of work. Driving factors should be...
You want to be the best at anything, it's going to be tough and take a hell of a lot of work. Driving factors should be passion about what you do and a desire to win. Not fuckin money.
Would you take a promotion at your place of work for a 75% reduction in pay and no benefits?
9
UpTiTe
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UpTiTe 8/30/2020 9:18am
8/30/2020 9:18am
SwapperMX wrote:
Forget about the money being the sole motivator, and it just being a job. These guys are racers and would want to win championships first and...
Forget about the money being the sole motivator, and it just being a job. These guys are racers and would want to win championships first and foremost. And the only way they do that is on great bikes with a great team supporting them. Man I cringe lately when the media constantly bring up riders pay cheques and racing being a job.
Get to know some of them, it is just a job and it is just a paycheck, but like any job, some do better than others. I can tell you about two top ten riders that would stop racing tomorrow if they had the same paycheck elsewhere.

Let’s talk about a guy like Troll, or Martin who are/were in the class forever. You think at 31 years old with a young wife and a new house that money isn’t a huge deal to him? Sure, he could move up, but then he’d have to sell his house and stop building his wealth, but hey, he’d be on a 450.

Martin Davalos, great example of exactly how it’s supposed to work for a guy who couldn’t be a 450 star. He stayed in the 250 class and built himself a future. He got his wife through dental school and helped her buy into a practice essentially setting up their future. Once he did that, he moved up.

This isn’t just a sport that we love, it’s their way of supporting their future, and they need to make decisions for their future, not because some fans wants to see him move up.


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UpTiTe
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UpTiTe 8/30/2020 9:20am
8/30/2020 9:20am
I’ve read most of these post, and a lot of it is spot on.

But here is a fact, Dylan Ferrandis is the only rider that is signed at this point, anything can still happen.
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OLDMOTO
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OLDMOTO 8/30/2020 9:51am
8/30/2020 9:51am
UpTiTe wrote:
I’ve read most of these post, and a lot of it is spot on. But here is a fact, Dylan Ferrandis is the only rider that...
I’ve read most of these post, and a lot of it is spot on.

But here is a fact, Dylan Ferrandis is the only rider that is signed at this point, anything can still happen.
To my knowledgeable DF hasn't told anyone publicly that he has signed anything. For the most part I feel people here are just repeating things they heard or their wishes or uninformed opinions. When the rider or team officially announce it then its for real. Even then a deal can still blow up.
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